Proposal: TOR-MTL (Weber)

[Kudo Shinichi]

So a bunch of crap for a 1D

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Not looking to go nuclear here by trading a bunch of core pieces but think that the Leafs might want to look at what is available to tweak the roster this summer. Wanting to throw this out there and see what needs to be done, if anything to alter it.

Leafs 1st (2018)
Brown/Kapanen - Habs choice
Martin (cap)
Bracco/Nielsen - Habs choice
Zaitsev (replacement RHD - equals out term)


for

Weber (no retention)
Shaw (1M retention)
Deslauriers

Rationale for the retention was Martin's contract ends sooner but it has been out there previously that Montreal was looking to maybe move on from his contract. I'm probably more into acquiring Weber then most Leaf fans so they might not necessarily be into the move but they can start their own thread

All that being said, yay/nay/tweak ?

Pass, that’s awful for the Leafs and onky screwes us in the future. Kapanen is going to be a consistent 20 goal scorer and Weber is only going to get worse

 

[Magic Man]

So a bunch of crap for a 1D

Marner + Liljegren + 1st

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Marner + Liljegren + 1st

I hope you’re kidding, I wouldn’t give up Marner alone for Weber. He’ll be Brent Seabrook in no time

 

[Magic Man]

I hope your kidding, I wouldn’t give up Marner alone for Weber. He’ll be Brent Seabrook in no time

Yeah, I was. Marner would never be included for an elderly Weber. I wouldn't add Liljegren either.

 

[WTFMAN99]

So a bunch of crap for a 1D

In 2 years, if Weber declines, you'll want to get out of that contract, do you think Weber returns even a 1st at that point?

 

[Rolo]

Neutral fan.

Montreal needs to bite the bullet, and lose the deal, similar to the Kessel to PIT deal. Just get him off the roster, and start the rebuild. 1st, Zaitsev, Kapanen is pretty good, maybe more picks/prospects added on Toronto's end.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

In 2 years, if Weber declines, you'll want to get out of that contract, do you think Weber returns even a 1st at that point?

So why anchor us with 8 million when we could throw that at one young solid guy or two top 4 guys.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

So a bunch of crap for a 1D

He isn't going to be a 1D when the leafs are competing, and still have to pay him 8 million at 40.

 

[WTFMAN99]

So why anchor us with 8 million when we could throw that at one young solid guy or two top 4 guys.

It works the other way too. Chara is still going strong right now. It depends on how risk adverse you are.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

It works the other way too. Chara is still going strong right now. It depends on how risk adverse you are.

Chara’s not the norm though and even he isn’t what he was

 

[WTFMAN99]

Chara’s not the norm though and even he isn’t what he was

I would say that Chara is definitely an exception, not the rule but there is no guarantee for sure Weber declines. Again, risk adversity and your tolerance for it.

I'll tolerate it for the right deal.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Not looking to go nuclear here by trading a bunch of core pieces but think that the Leafs might want to look at what is available to tweak the roster this summer. Wanting to throw this out there and see what needs to be done, if anything to alter it.

Leafs 1st (2018)
Brown/Kapanen - Habs choice
Martin (cap)
Bracco/Nielsen - Habs choice
Zaitsev (replacement RHD - equals out term)


for

Weber (no retention)
Shaw (1M retention)
Deslauriers

Rationale for the retention was Martin's contract ends sooner but it has been out there previously that Montreal was looking to maybe move on from his contract. I'm probably more into acquiring Weber then most Leaf fans so they might not necessarily be into the move but they can start their own thread

All that being said, yay/nay/tweak ?

Zaitsev
Martin
Plekanec's rights
Brown
Bracco or Rasanen - Habs choice
2018 1st rd. Pick

for

Weber
Shaw (no retention)

1st 2019
4th 2018
Brown/Kappy
Martin
Your choice of Bracco/Nielsen/Leivo (assuming you're taking Leivo at this point?)

for

Weber
Deslaurier
2nd 2018 (Leafs) returned

?

All terrible proposals if Weber's gonna be healthy. His health is an issue though and you wouldn't want to pay the price to acquire him right now.

Marner + Liljegren + 1st

Now we're talking.

 

[Magic Man]

I find longevity is usually better for the elite guys. Thornton, Chara, Marleau are all still going at 40. I think Weber could be that type of player that plays at high level late into his 30's. It's also possible he's a step slower next year, that could happen at any time for an older player.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Not looking to go nuclear here by trading a bunch of core pieces but think that the Leafs might want to look at what is available to tweak the roster this summer. Wanting to throw this out there and see what needs to be done, if anything to alter it.

Leafs 1st (2018)
Brown/Kapanen - Habs choice
Martin (cap)
Bracco/Nielsen - Habs choice
Zaitsev (replacement RHD - equals out term)


for

Weber (no retention)
Shaw (1M retention)
Deslauriers

Rationale for the retention was Martin's contract ends sooner but it has been out there previously that Montreal was looking to maybe move on from his contract. I'm probably more into acquiring Weber then most Leaf fans so they might not necessarily be into the move but they can start their own thread

All that being said, yay/nay/tweak ?

I'm in the "Blow the shit out of the team and rebuild from there" train, so I'm not totally against the trade.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'm in the "Blow the **** out of the team and rebuild from there" train, so I'm not totally against the trade.

Fair enough, I think opinion will vary wildly from fan to fan for both fan bases. You could ask every Leaf fan and Hab fan and get a different answer I think.

 

[yababy]

Not looking to go nuclear here by trading a bunch of core pieces but think that the Leafs might want to look at what is available to tweak the roster this summer. Wanting to throw this out there and see what needs to be done, if anything to alter it.

Leafs 1st (2018)
Brown/Kapanen - Habs choice
Martin (cap)
Bracco/Nielsen - Habs choice
Zaitsev (replacement RHD - equals out term)


for

Weber (no retention)
Shaw (1M retention)
Deslauriers

Rationale for the retention was Martin's contract ends sooner but it has been out there previously that Montreal was looking to maybe move on from his contract. I'm probably more into acquiring Weber then most Leaf fans so they might not necessarily be into the move but they can start their own thread

All that being said, yay/nay/tweak ?

A lot of Leafs fans want to jettison Zaitsev after the first 2 games.

 

[Mackiaveli]

Montreal needs to bite the bullet, and lose the deal, similar to the Kessel to PIT deal

Yeah, Kessel scored 92 points this year, 70 the previous year, and 59 the year before that.

The Leafs trading Kessel was simply so they could actually tank. Montreal needs to trade Price to tank, not Weber.

The problem with fans on these boards is that a lot of people forget the "end-game" of the NHL. It isn't to have a team like Washington that wins their division year after year, always makes the playoffs etc, and it isn't to build a team like Pittsburgh that is seemingly dyanstic (although, that is ultimately a great outcome if it does happen) --- the END GAME of EVERY organization in the NHL is to win a Stanley Cup. Teams rebuilding, are rebuilding so that they can assemble a solid enough core to win the Stanley Cup. Once you do THAT, the focus becomes keeping the group together to win more.

You can see this in the way Chicago, LA, Boston etc have constantly reshuffled their rosters to keep their core together as much as possible. These teams make trades that they think can put them back in the position to win a Stanley Cup.

Teams like Edmonton, Toronto, Arizona, Buffalo and Columbus (the "dogshit" teams of the last 6-7 years, minus the odd season) built themselves to win cups in the future. Arizona and Buffalo are still figuring that part out, but Toronto/Edmonton/Columbus are all seemingly 'there'.

Toronto has an abysmal defensive group. They absolutely CANNOT win a Stanley Cup unless they make drastic improvements on the defensive end of things. Ideally, their cup window is the next 3-4 years while they have a bunch of ELC's and young NHL-ready prospects to step in and fill gaps on ELCs. To win a cup in that window, these guys need to get a lot better in their own end. The prospects Toronto has will not be the be-all-end-all for this groups next few years. They are in desperate need of a true #1 defenseman, and Weber fits that bill.

Similarly, Edmonton desperately needs scoring depth, and Philly are seeming to have addressed a lot of their issues (defensive depth problems, C depth) over the past few years, and are now left with the puzzling goal-tending conundrum similar to a team like the Blues.

At the end of the day, Toronto has a phenomenal offensive group with a ton of young, promising, talented young players who can contribute and make this team dynamic and an elite threat for years to come. Also at the end of that same day, an offensively gifted team with good goaltending and solid defense will continually beat them (Washington last year, Boston so far this year)

I don't think this Leafs team could beat Nashville, Columbus, Pittsburgh, LA, Tampa, Anaheim or Winnipeg.

To the OP:

Weber is not being moved to Toronto unless they get back one of Nylander/Marner. I'm not necessarily saying that Weber has that sort of value, but why would you gift your rival the missing piece of the puzzle without taking back a future 'franchise defining' piece like Marner or Nylander?

If Weber gets moved at all, it will be to a team out west. I could see him reuniting with Suter in Minnesota, being the big man behind Klingberg in Dallas, lining up alongside Klefbom in Edmonton, or even wearing Blue and White over on the opposite side of Canada. I absolutely cannot see him being moved to any Eastern Conference team because why in gods name do they want to play Weber multiple times a year, and potentially in the playoffs?

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I love Weber but he'll be 33 next year, is coming off an injury and signed until he's 40. I realise we wouldn't be on the hook for the remainder of the deal but god knows how long he'd wait until he hangs em up. Might look fine for a year or two but the Leafs have one shot at putting serious money into a defender and I don't think he's the one.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

A lot of Leafs fans want to jettison Zaitsev after the first 2 games.

Zaitsev has not been the problem. Everyone has been the problem.

 

[WTFMAN99]

A lot of Leafs fans want to jettison Zaitsev after the first 2 games.

Tried to equal out the term and money a bit with the whole deal. Zaitsev-Weber term lined up okay.

Admittedly not his best 2 games ever but he has his moments. I think everything is under a microscope right now though

Yeah, Kessel scored 92 points this year, 70 the previous year, and 59 the year before that.

The Leafs trading Kessel was simply so they could actually tank. Montreal needs to trade Price to tank, not Weber.

The problem with fans on these boards is that a lot of people forget the "end-game" of the NHL. It isn't to have a team like Washington that wins their division year after year, always makes the playoffs etc, and it isn't to build a team like Pittsburgh that is seemingly dyanstic (although, that is ultimately a great outcome if it does happen) --- the END GAME of EVERY organization in the NHL is to win a Stanley Cup. Teams rebuilding, are rebuilding so that they can assemble a solid enough core to win the Stanley Cup. Once you do THAT, the focus becomes keeping the group together to win more.

You can see this in the way Chicago, LA, Boston etc have constantly reshuffled their rosters to keep their core together as much as possible. These teams make trades that they think can put them back in the position to win a Stanley Cup.

Teams like Edmonton, Toronto, Arizona, Buffalo and Columbus (the "dog****" teams of the last 6-7 years, minus the odd season) built themselves to win cups in the future. Arizona and Buffalo are still figuring that part out, but Toronto/Edmonton/Columbus are all seemingly 'there'.

Toronto has an abysmal defensive group. They absolutely CANNOT win a Stanley Cup unless they make drastic improvements on the defensive end of things. Ideally, their cup window is the next 3-4 years while they have a bunch of ELC's and young NHL-ready prospects to step in and fill gaps on ELCs. To win a cup in that window, these guys need to get a lot better in their own end. The prospects Toronto has will not be the be-all-end-all for this groups next few years. They are in desperate need of a true #1 defenseman, and Weber fits that bill.

Similarly, Edmonton desperately needs scoring depth, and Philly are seeming to have addressed a lot of their issues (defensive depth problems, C depth) over the past few years, and are now left with the puzzling goal-tending conundrum similar to a team like the Blues.

At the end of the day, Toronto has a phenomenal offensive group with a ton of young, promising, talented young players who can contribute and make this team dynamic and an elite threat for years to come. Also at the end of that same day, an offensively gifted team with good goaltending and solid defense will continually beat them (Washington last year, Boston so far this year)

I don't think this Leafs team could beat Nashville, Columbus, Pittsburgh, LA, Tampa, Anaheim or Winnipeg.

To the OP:

Weber is not being moved to Toronto unless they get back one of Nylander/Marner. I'm not necessarily saying that Weber has that sort of value, but why would you gift your rival the missing piece of the puzzle without taking back a future 'franchise defining' piece like Marner or Nylander?

If Weber gets moved at all, it will be to a team out west. I could see him reuniting with Suter in Minnesota, being the big man behind Klingberg in Dallas, lining up alongside Klefbom in Edmonton, or even wearing Blue and White over on the opposite side of Canada. I absolutely cannot see him being moved to any Eastern Conference team because why in gods name do they want to play Weber multiple times a year, and potentially in the playoffs?

I don't think the Weber to a rival or out East really matters to be honest. We aren't in direct competition right now, teams are at different stages. I know you prefaced the Marner/Nylander part but it is really not a reasonable point to start. The Leafs could put Nylander on the market this off-season and I imagine something would materialize that is likely younger and maybe a better cap hit. I just happen to like Weber so I am willing to overlook the contract and gamble but only to a certain extent.

Weber to Minnesota doesn't make a lot of sense to me...the cap hit seems damn near impossible to balance out unless Montreal wants to help out Minnesota and take Parise back.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

In 2 years, if Weber declines, you'll want to get out of that contract, do you think Weber returns even a 1st at that point?

He will be an anchor in 2 years, yet you want him. Makes so much sense...

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Fair enough, I think opinion will vary wildly from fan to fan for both fan bases. You could ask every Leaf fan and Hab fan and get a different answer I think.

Some Habs fans think what we were going to get for PK is still on the table for Weber others are terrified our GM will trade him for Magic Beans that have an impeccable attitude, if I can get a 1st and a couple of higher end prospects without taking back any long term contracts I'm content and commits us to a much needed rebuild. Ideally we get someone who can pan out as a Top 6 C but not many of them available and maybe Pacs or Price gets us that

 

[WTFMAN99]

He will be an anchor in 2 years, yet you want him. Makes so much sense...

I did say in a later post it depends on how risk adverse you are as a Leafs fan. I'm okay with the risk depending on the price, I don't want to pay a lot and then in 2 years be stuck with another Seabrook.

Some Habs fans think what we were going to get for PK is still on the table for Weber others are terrified our GM will trade him for Magic Beans that have an impeccable attitude, if I can get a 1st and a couple of higher end prospects without taking back any long term contracts I'm content and commits us to a much needed rebuild. Ideally we get someone who can pan out as a Top 6 C but not many of them available and maybe Pacs or Price gets us that

As someone that just witnessed our rebuild, I would hope your team realizes it's not a well built team and starts over. That might mean Price and Weber are let go but at least you're starting. Patches will get you a nice return over the summer or by the TDL too.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I did say in a later post it depends on how risk adverse you are as a Leafs fan. I'm okay with the risk depending on the price, I don't want to pay a lot and then in 2 years be stuck with another Seabrook.

therefore the habs should trade a number 1 D for a bunch of cap dumps/4th liners/ahlers.
Yep makes total sense...