Confirmed with Link: [TOR] Maple Leafs Re-Sign Peter Holland [2 years/$775K AAV]

Duke Silver

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Jun 4, 2008
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It depends on preseason, especially how Frattin does. If Frattin plays well in preseason I think he'll play with Lupul and Kadri. If not I think it'll be:

JVR Bozak Kessel
Lupul Kadri Santorelli
Komarov Kontiola Frattin
player Holland goon

Clarkson likely played #3RW. Frattin #4RW. Bodie and Ashton scrap for #4LW.
 

Budsfan

Registered User
Sep 17, 2006
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It depends on preseason, especially how Frattin does. If Frattin plays well in preseason I think he'll play with Lupul and Kadri. If not I think it'll be:

JVR Bozak Kessel
Lupul Kadri Santorelli
Komarov Kontiola Frattin
player Holland goon

I don't see Holland as the 4th Line center, I think he will be the 3rd line center and the more experienced Kontiola or Santorelli as 4th line centers for the PK and one of them being on Holland's wing.

JVR/Bozak/Kessel
Lupul/Kadri/Frattin
Santorelli/Holland/Clarkson
Komarov/Kontiola/Bodie/Aston/Orr
 

Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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It depends on preseason, especially how Frattin does. If Frattin plays well in preseason I think he'll play with Lupul and Kadri. If not I think it'll be:

JVR Bozak Kessel
Lupul Kadri Santorelli
Komarov Kontiola Frattin
player Holland goon

Face off winning % will play a big part in who plays center and who moves to the wing.

If Satorelli (who has the most NHL experience) proves > Holland and Kontiola in the dot then he would be the least likely to be moved to the wing. IMO

The only advantage really of playing Santorelli with Kadri is that it allows him to strategically (Carlyle coaching strategy) take zone face-offs instead of Naz situationally or if Kadri is tossed from the dot.

Santorelli 51.3 FO% > Holland 46.7% > Kadri 45.2%
 
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Budsfan

Registered User
Sep 17, 2006
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Face off winning % will play a big part in who plays center and who moves to the wing.

If Satorelli (who has the most NHL experience) proves > Holland and Kontiola in the dot then he would be the least likely to be moved to the wing. IMO

The only advantage really of playing Santorelli with Kadri is that it allows him to strategically (Carlyle coaching strategy) take zone face-offs instead of Naz situationally or if Kadri is tossed from the dot.

This is a difficult lineup to fit together and I had a great problem with it and again, I see training camp, being the best to answer these questions, add to all this, if Nylander impresses and they feel he should stay, then we would have 6 or 7 centers (if you count Komarov) on the forward lines.

I don't think Nylander will be kept but it is a possibility, I tried to have two centers, on the 3rd and 4th lines, just for face-offs, if we are on the PK, thus Santorelli/Holland and Komarov/Kontiola but anything could happen, even a trade and the line-up could be changed completely.
 

Phion Keneuf

Bang Bang
Jul 4, 2010
35,198
6,231
JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-Santorelli
Komarov-Kontiola-Clarkson
Ashton-Holland-Frattin
/Bodie

^ really hope that is how our lines shape up.
 

Doug Gilmour

Registered User
Oct 5, 2010
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54
Face off winning % will play a big part in who plays center and who moves to the wing.

If Satorelli (who has the most NHL experience) proves > Holland and Kontiola in the dot then he would be the least likely to be moved to the wing. IMO

The only advantage really of playing Santorelli with Kadri is that it allows him to strategically (Carlyle coaching strategy) take zone face-offs instead of Naz situationally or if Kadri is tossed from the dot.

Santorelli 51.3 FO% > Holland 46.7% > Kadri 45.2%

Be really interesting to see all 3 of them on the same line
 

GalacticaActual

Registered User
Mar 23, 2010
1,117
110
Mississauga, Ontario
JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-Santorelli
Komarov-Kontiola-Clarkson
Ashton-Holland-Frattin
/Bodie

^ really hope that is how our lines shape up.

IMO Clarkson gets press-box'd within 10 regular season games.

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-Santorelli
Komarov-Holland-Frattin
???-Kontiola-???

With the last two spots up for grabs for any of these players: Bodie/Orr/Ashton/Marlies players (such as Carrick, Broll, Devane, etc...).

Clarkson in a permanent press box.

Frazer McLaren should never suit up another game as a Leaf.

The second line RW spot is UGLY! We can't expect to compete with a 3rd/4th liner on 2nd line RW. The Leafs have to hope one of their young kids takes a big next step (Leivo, Nylander, etc...).
 

gabeliscious

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
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I don't see Holland as the 4th Line center, I think he will be the 3rd line center and the more experienced Kontiola or Santorelli as 4th line centers for the PK and one of them being on Holland's wing.

JVR/Bozak/Kessel
Lupul/Kadri/Frattin
Santorelli/Holland/Clarkson
Komarov/Kontiola/Bodie/Aston/Orr

i have a hard time seeing frattin being our 2nd line winger and less he comes into camp and just kills it leaving carlyle with no choice. he did have some chemistry with kadri so maybe he will get his mojo back with naz. i really dont see anyone but clarkson on the 2nd line. $5.25 milion for a 3rd liner is a tough pill to swallow.


Face off winning % will play a big part in who plays center and who moves to the wing.

If Satorelli (who has the most NHL experience) proves > Holland and Kontiola in the dot then he would be the least likely to be moved to the wing. IMO

The only advantage really of playing Santorelli with Kadri is that it allows him to strategically (Carlyle coaching strategy) take zone face-offs instead of Naz situationally or if Kadri is tossed from the dot.

Santorelli 51.3 FO% > Holland 46.7% > Kadri 45.2%

faceoffs are a very small part of playing center. considering how thin the leafs are center i would hope they would try and develop kadri and holland as centers. the only way kadri/holland will improve at faceoffs is to take them.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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Leafs Home Board
faceoffs are a very small part of playing center. considering how thin the leafs are center i would hope they would try and develop kadri and holland as centers. the only way kadri/holland will improve at faceoffs is to take them.

Faceoffs drive possession as they gain puck control. Defensively they prevent scoring opportunities, and offensively they create them for whomever wins the draw.

Granted, Kadri and Holland need to learn and improve, but at what cost? A coach is still coaching to win and is logically going to put the player he believes will perform best at a certain task.

If Santorelli proves to be 2nd best FO man he has available and basically replacing McClement's role then its less likely he becomes a winger while potentially weaker FO players Kadri, Holland and Kontiola are allowed to take them to get more practice as that is what practices are for. IMO

Santorelli is Carlyle's 2nd most experienced and qualified center he has at this disposal. If Holland is competing with him for a center spot than FO% and abilities will be a deciding factor.
 

crump

~ ~ (ړײ) ~ ~
Feb 26, 2004
14,744
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Ontariariario
Good term. Should be an open competition for 3/4 centre spots with Kadri still needing a good camp to secure second. Heck Bozak shouldn't be a shoe in for first line either. Holland drew rave reviews last year with Marlies, he is an NHL caliber player now.

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014...es-nhl-ready-with-ahls-marlies/?__federated=1

Would like to get some stats on Kontiola in the dot. From the Olympics games he looked quite good when he took them.
 

Budsfan

Registered User
Sep 17, 2006
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i have a hard time seeing frattin being our 2nd line winger and less he comes into camp and just kills it leaving carlyle with no choice. he did have some chemistry with kadri so maybe he will get his mojo back with naz. i really dont see anyone but clarkson on the 2nd line. $5.25 milion for a 3rd liner is a tough pill to swallow.




faceoffs are a very small part of playing center. considering how thin the leafs are center i would hope they would try and develop kadri and holland as centers. the only way kadri/holland will improve at faceoffs is to take them.

On the first part of your post, as I said earlier, this is a very difficult line-up to put together and although most have Frattin, lower in the pecking order, as a RW, like you say, he has had some chemistry with Kadri, which is why I put him on that line and he is a pretty good and fast player and I don't think you can justify putting Clarkson on that line just because he makes a lot of money and again training camp and preseason should determine where these players line up.

On the second part of your post, Face-offs are really important and the younger centers like Kadri and Holland, hopefully will learn from the older centers, until they become good at it, I put a line-up together, with 2 experienced centers on the 3rd and 4th lines because puck possession, on the PK, is extremely important and should one center get removed by the Referee, the other has a good chance to retain puck and kill off a penalty.
 

gabeliscious

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
7,574
257
On the first part of your post, as I said earlier, this is a very difficult line-up to put together and although most have Frattin, lower in the pecking order, as a RW, like you say, he has had some chemistry with Kadri, which is why I put him on that line and he is a pretty good and fast player and I don't think you can justify putting Clarkson on that line just because he makes a lot of money and again training camp and preseason should determine where these players line up.

On the second part of your post, Face-offs are really important and the younger centers like Kadri and Holland, hopefully will learn from the older centers, until they become good at it, I put a line-up together, with 2 experienced centers on the 3rd and 4th lines because puck possession, on the PK, is extremely important and should one center get removed by the Referee, the other has a good chance to retain puck and kill off a penalty.


if your concern is strictly the faceoff then let santorelli take faceoffs and then play wing the rest of the shift. faceoffs are 1 aspect of playing center. imo the rest of the responsibilities are still important and im not sure if santorelli is better overall then kadri and holland.

i cant do math but how many actual faceoff wins does going from 45% to 50% represent. how are faceoff wins recorded? does a center tying up the other centers stick while the winger move the puck back constitute a win? if thats the case our wingers might be part of the reason our center faceoff numbers are so ugly. i cant see faceoff wins only being clear cut puck moving back to defenseman counting as a win
 

Budsfan

Registered User
Sep 17, 2006
19,218
1,365
if your concern is strictly the faceoff then let santorelli take faceoffs and then play wing the rest of the shift. faceoffs are 1 aspect of playing center. imo the rest of the responsibilities are still important and im not sure if santorelli is better overall then kadri and holland.

i cant do math but how many actual faceoff wins does going from 45% to 50% represent. how are faceoff wins recorded? does a center tying up the other centers stick while the winger move the puck back constitute a win? if thats the case our wingers might be part of the reason our center faceoff numbers are so ugly. i cant see faceoff wins only being clear cut puck moving back to defenseman counting as a win

Face-offs are most important, when your a man short because the longer you can hang on to the puck, the less time an opposing team can take a shot, plus one of your team mates, can ice the puck and get it out of your end zone, if you remember, David Steckel, we obtained him a few years back, his thing was face-offs and every time we had an important face-off, both in the offensive zone and defensive zone, he took it, unfortunately that's all he could do really well but it's a sought after skill and many players practice it a lot and they do track face-off stats, for that reason (puck control) and truthfully I don't know how they determine face-off stats, you will have to check the net for that, or perhaps someone here can clue us both in.
 

EastVan

Registered User
Jun 25, 2014
242
0
Faceoffs drive possession as they gain puck control. Defensively they prevent scoring opportunities, and offensively they create them for whomever wins the draw.

Granted, Kadri and Holland need to learn and improve, but at what cost? A coach is still coaching to win and is logically going to put the player he believes will perform best at a certain task.

If Santorelli proves to be 2nd best FO man he has available and basically replacing McClement's role then its less likely he becomes a winger while potentially weaker FO players Kadri, Holland and Kontiola are allowed to take them to get more practice as that is what practices are for. IMO

Santorelli is Carlyle's 2nd most experienced and qualified center he has at this disposal. If Holland is competing with him for a center spot than FO% and abilities will be a deciding factor.

I think Mess might be right. Kontiola and Santorelli could wind up as our C's due to their faceoff proficiency.

JVR- Bozak- Kessel
Lupul- Kadri- Holland
Komarov- Kontiola- Clarkson
Bodie- Santorelli- Frattin/Ashton

Maybe Holland can find a home in our top six playing the wing?
 

Tyler Biggs*

Guest
Good move, now make Carlyle play him, he's a first round draft pick with lots of upside. Could give Kadri a run for his money for the number two spot as he is bigger and stronger on the puck.
 

Crispy Crust

Registered User
Jul 6, 2007
18,250
996
Toronto
Good move, now make Carlyle play him, he's a first round draft pick with lots of upside. Could give Kadri a run for his money for the number two spot as he is bigger and stronger on the puck.

Based purely on his OHL and AHL offensive outputs, there is considerable upside here.
 

King85Kong

Playoffs?
Nov 24, 2013
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0
Toronto
Faceoffs drive possession as they gain puck control. Defensively they prevent scoring opportunities, and offensively they create them for whomever wins the draw.

Granted, Kadri and Holland need to learn and improve, but at what cost? A coach is still coaching to win and is logically going to put the player he believes will perform best at a certain task.

If Santorelli proves to be 2nd best FO man he has available and basically replacing McClement's role then its less likely he becomes a winger while potentially weaker FO players Kadri, Holland and Kontiola are allowed to take them to get more practice as that is what practices are for. IMO

Santorelli is Carlyle's 2nd most experienced and qualified center he has at this disposal. If Holland is competing with him for a center spot than FO% and abilities will be a deciding factor.

Most of our centers can't do much with the puck when they do win it. :help:
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
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If you are a Leafs fan that wants this team to improve, shouldn't we all want Holland to challenge Kadri this season?
 

mikebel111*

Guest
If you are a Leafs fan that wants this team to improve, shouldn't we all want Holland to challenge Kadri this season?



I never said it's bad. It is nice competition, however point was unlikely Holland replaces Kadri.

BTW. I would like to see Holland and Kadri challenge Bozak,

seem like you misunderstood the point
 

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