Top ten from the 2003 draft.

[LesCanadiens]

I think RLR gave Kostitsyn 50% of the hype he has now, and Hab fans gave him the other 50%.

News Flash: RLR also said Chistov was the most talanted player in his draft, and still to this day say he will be a top Scorer.

Wrong...prior to the draft he was heavily hyped by many posters here as well after his WJC performance...and if not for his health concerns would had been a top-10 pick on most scouting lists.

As for Chistov...yeah well....no one has a crystal ball, and do tell me, how many of the other highly-touted players in from Kostitsyns draft have proven themselves....exactly. This is all speculation, and my point is that this thread asked for ppls speculative opinions...so singling-out one fanbase because they speculate their prospect is top-10 is uncalled for. Debating the posts is one thing, directing digs at one fanbase because of who they cheer for is just bashing....plain as day.

I don't think I'm off base here...and I'm not going to go in circles with this.

 

[417]

Wrong...prior to the draft he was heavily hyped by many posters here as well after his WJC performance...and if not for his health concerns would had been a top-10 pick on most scouting lists.

As for Chistov...yeah well....no one has a crystal ball, and do tell me, how many of the other highly-touted players in from Kostitsyns draft have proven themselves....exactly. This is all speculation, and my point is that this thread asked for ppls speculative opinions...so singling-out one fanbase because they speculate their prospect is top-10 is uncalled for. Debating the posts is one thing, directing digs at one fanbase because of who they cheer for is just bashing....plain as day.

I don't think I'm off base here...and I'm not going to go in circles with this.

Your not off base at all...you're bang on actually!

 

[417]

hey katz might be a little over hyped... but non habs fans are ALWAYS going to hate on habs propects, regardless...
but most (if not all) of the publications i've read has him in the top 10-15 in their overall prospects lists, so he must have some talent...

and if you're going to talk overhyped prospects... people are treating parise like the second coming of Christ...
i admit i liked him a lot before the draft last year(he was one of my favorite players) but he's not gretzky, lemieux or even crosby...

also, i believe that playing in russia (even if its a second tier league) is a little more competitive than playing in college...
or perhaps we should believe that playing in the CHL is more competitive than playing in the AHL...

Exactly, couldn't of put it better myself Non Habs fans always hate on habs prospects and players, no matter who it is, it's proven everyday here on these boards

Back to Kostitsyn, I remember before last years draft alot of posters on these boards jumped on the Kostitsyn bandwagon because of his stellar showing at the WJC, as soon as he was drafted by the Habs, those same posters called him a bust, overrated, etc.

It's been a long time since the Habs drafted a player with as much talent and potential as Kostitsyn, due to horrible drafting in the 90's so try understand Habs fans enthusiasm after we read all the reports about this guys talent

 

[CH Wizard]

It's been a long time since the Habs drafted a player with as much talent and potential as Kostitsyn, due to horrible drafting in the 90's so try understand Habs fans enthusiasm after we read all the reports about this guys talent

WOW !! ( I agree with this paragraph) I couldn't have said it better.Like I said in another thread.Some habs fan are high on kost and I can understand that ! After drafting guys like Stevenson,Vallis,Ryan pretty early in the draft.As like you said the Habs didn't pick a player as skilled as Kost in a while.

 

[MrMastodonFarm*]

WOW !! ( I agree with this paragraph) I couldn't have said it better.Like I said in another thread.Some habs fan are high on kost and I can understand that ! After drafting guys like Stevenson,Vallis,Ryan pretty early in the draft.As like you said the Habs didn't pick a player as skilled as Kost in a while.

With Gainy at wheel steering the good ship Habs there are going to be alot more great drafts coming up for that team.

 

[Moskau]

Wrong...prior to the draft he was heavily hyped by many posters here as well after his WJC performance...and if not for his health concerns would had been a top-10 pick on most scouting lists.

As for Chistov...yeah well....no one has a crystal ball, and do tell me, how many of the other highly-touted players in from Kostitsyns draft have proven themselves....exactly. This is all speculation, and my point is that this thread asked for ppls speculative opinions...so singling-out one fanbase because they speculate their prospect is top-10 is uncalled for. Debating the posts is one thing, directing digs at one fanbase because of who they cheer for is just bashing....plain as day.

I don't think I'm off base here...and I'm not going to go in circles with this.

I wasn't talking about Kostitsyn pre draft. I'm saying much of the hype he garners POST draft is from all the RLR talk and the fact he's a Habs prospect.

The Chistov comparison is not instantly saying he's a bust (not that Chistov is). But I'm saying thats not the way to go about hyping a player.

I think what other posters are saying is that players drafted after him have shown more since being drafted. Kostitsyn has done nothing to make him better than the slot he was taken at, but people taken after him have certainly shown they deserved to be taken higher.

And really people saying someone is wrong because they didn't see him play in Russia is wrong for an argument like this. What's to see? A breakaway goal? This list is all about performance, what have you done for me since.

 

[417]

I wasn't talking about Kostitsyn pre draft. I'm saying much of the hype he garners POST draft is from all the RLR talk and the fact he's a Habs prospect.

The Chistov comparison is not instantly saying he's a bust (not that Chistov is). But I'm saying thats not the way to go about hyping a player.

I think what other posters are saying is that players drafted after him have shown more since being drafted. Kostitsyn has done nothing to make him better than the slot he was taken at, but people taken after him have certainly shown they deserved to be taken higher.

And really people saying someone is wrong because they didn't see him play in Russia is wrong for an argument like this. What's to see? A breakaway goal? This list is all about performance, what have you done for me since.

Have you taken into consideration the team that Kostitsyn played for, he was playing for CSKA, the most reveared hockey club in Russia, along with Dynamo I believe, on a team filled with vetrans who play before the younger players...it's not like the other players who played in the NCAA or CHL, they got to star on their respective teams right away, and were the focal point of their offense, plus playing vs. inferior competition helped their point totals as well...Kostitsyn was playing vs. men, and whenever he was sent down to the junior club to play vs. players his age, he dominated, much like the NCAA or CHL draftees, so what your saying makes absolutely no sense...

Production is related to playing time, you can't produce when your not playing...simple as that, so if you think that Kostitsyn is overrated, then give us some valid arguments as to why, because up to now, you've provided absolutely nothing! zilch! nada!

 

[guitaraholic*]

blah, they're all 'busts' until they play in the NHL, IMO. You guys appear to be arguing over the potential of a guy you probably haven't seen play....

 

[Jacob]

Have you taken into consideration the team that Kostitsyn played for, he was playing for CSKA, the most reveared hockey club in Russia, along with Dynamo I believe, on a team filled with vetrans who play before the younger players...it's not like the other players who played in the NCAA or CHL, they got to star on their respective teams right away, and were the focal point of their offense, plus playing vs. inferior competition helped their point totals as well...Kostitsyn was playing vs. men, and whenever he was sent down to the junior club to play vs. players his age, he dominated, much like the NCAA or CHL draftees, so what your saying makes absolutely no sense...

Production is related to playing time, you can't produce when your not playing...simple as that, so if you think that Kostitsyn is overrated, then give us some valid arguments as to why, because up to now, you've provided absolutely nothing! zilch! nada!

I always thought CSKA was a youth-oriented team.

I mean, looking at their roster, guys like Anshakov, Polushin, Parshin and Chernykh seem to have been favored for ice time over Kostitsyn. Not good.

he dominated, much like the NCAA or CHL draftees

The difference of course is that it's not uncommon for players to go straight from the CHL or NCAA into the NHL, where as I've never heard of a player going from some Russian junior league straight to the NHL.

 

[417]

I always thought CSKA was a youth-oriented team.

I mean, looking at their roster, guys like Anshakov, Polushin, Parshin and Chernykh seem to have been favored for ice time over Kostitsyn. Not good.


The difference of course is that it's not uncommon for players to go straight from the CHL or NCAA into the NHL, where as I've never heard of a player going from some Russian junior league straight to the NHL.

Yes, but those players, Anshakov, Polushin, Parshin and Chernykh, most likely fit into the teams plans immediately and long term, it's well documented that Kostitsyn and Tikhonov did not see eye to eye, this also had an effect on his playing time, as Tikhonov is not the easiest coach to play for...

Even Kostitsyn said it himself, it's hard to prove your worth when you get 2 or 3 minutes of icetime per game...so to me it's not an issue.

And Kovalchuk went straight from the junior league and into the NHL...that's the thing, it's not fair to judge Kostitsyn to players from last years draft yet, why don't we wait until he plays in the AHL or NHL before rendering a judgement...

 

[Jacob]

Well, Kovalchuk was in the upper league.

 

[X-SHARKIE]

to be fair I haven't seen Kostitsyn play in the RSL....so I don't know what he's looked like...just stats to go by.

 

[Legionnaire]

that's the thing, it's not fair to judge Kostitsyn to players from last years draft yet, why don't we wait until he plays in the AHL or NHL before rendering a judgement...

Why not? That's the way it works. You can't just grade them on potential. Potential is just that, potential. They have to PROVE that they are worth their rankings or they fall....And they certainly don't RISE if they have done nothing to back up the hype.

Edit: Oh, and if we have to wait until Kostitsyn gets to the AHL or NHL, then he has no buisness in the top ten rankings until he plays there.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

No Patrice Bergeron on anyone's list? I'm surprised Staal didn't make more lists.

I'm guessing the lists are for the future, in which case i'd agree that most of theose guys are going to be better than Bergeron(and thats no slight to Bergeron)

I wouldn't put Staal in my top 10 either, looks to be put into the NHL too early and it might have hurt him.

 

[LesCanadiens]

I wasn't talking about Kostitsyn pre draft. I'm saying much of the hype he garners POST draft is from all the RLR talk and the fact he's a Habs prospect.

The Chistov comparison is not instantly saying he's a bust (not that Chistov is). But I'm saying thats not the way to go about hyping a player.

I think what other posters are saying is that players drafted after him have shown more since being drafted. Kostitsyn has done nothing to make him better than the slot he was taken at, but people taken after him have certainly shown they deserved to be taken higher.

And really people saying someone is wrong because they didn't see him play in Russia is wrong for an argument like this. What's to see? A breakaway goal? This list is all about performance, what have you done for me since.

Thats my whole point....posts like your last one are great...post with overgeneralizations like "...Hab fans overrating...overhyping...blah blah..." do not add anything to the mix.

 

[Munchausen]

You guys appear to be arguing over the potential of a guy you probably haven't seen play....

Welcome to HF boards, the place where everybody has an opinion on everything he knows nothing about.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

I think RLR gave Kostitsyn 50% of the hype he has now, and Hab fans gave him the other 50%.

News Flash: RLR also said Chistov was the most talanted player in his draft, and still to this day say he will be a top Scorer.

Chistov was one of the most talented players in that draft, and at one point CCS had him higher than Kovalchuk. He has just as much if not more talent than Kovalchuk.

Problem is the kid's motivation and size. If he was bigger, he would be better IMO. Even then, his motivation sucks.

If he improves that though, watch out.

As far as Kostitsyn goes, he is hyped a lot around here. But hey, its a prospects site. I've seen him play twice on tape, and i can say that i wasn't overly impressed, but he played how i thought he would play from what i have read about him. I'd rate him between 15-20.

Now, my top ten...
1. Zherdev
2. Horton
3. Phaneuf
4. Suter
5. Michalek
6. Brown
7. Fleury
8. Coburn
9. Carter
10.Vanek

I can see someone posting about the Fleury ranking, so i'll say my piece now. I didn't like how he played after he was sent down from the NHL. Granted he played well in Pittsburgh, and he's 18, but he got shelled in the QMJHL playoffs and the AHL playoffs. I think it took a toll at a young age.

 

[Munchausen]

as many as most people here.

*huuug* there, there, habsfan. I still think he's good! don't worry!

Kostitsyn > everyone else.

there, better? While I'm at it, Yann Danis > Lehtonen and Komisarek > rising crust pizza. All is well with the world!

Don't try to avoid the question by sinking into childish sarcasm, how many times did you actually see Kostitsyn play? You seem to be pretty informed to be able to state so confidently he's overrated. One would assume you at least have seen him play a bunch of times to make that bold comment.

I'm sick of arrogant people like you coming here to bash the posters and their opinions and try to have them see the light (your light) when you're probably as clueless as them about the topic discussed.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with expressing an opinion about a player based on what you know, even if it's very little, but the way you and some other prima donna posters in here are taking shots at others is just plain Pejorative Slured. Can you just discuss the topic without falling into fanbase bashing, ludicrous generalizations and condescending pointless comments?

Oh and how in hell did you become a mod? Isn't what I quoted from you above exactly the definition of trolling? Seems to me you'd be better off re-reading those HF guidlines instead of trying to make smart-ass comments to ridicule others.

 

[nomorekids]

Don't try to avoid the question by sinking into childish sarcasm, how many times did you actually see Kostitsyn play? You seem to be pretty informed to be able to state so confidently he's overrated. One would assume you at least have seen him play a bunch of times to make that bold comment.

I'm sick of arrogant people like you coming here to bash the posters and their opinions and try to have them see the light (your light) when you're probably as clueless as them about the topic discussed.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with expressing an opinion about a player based on what you know, even if it's very little, but the way you and some other prima donna posters in here are taking shots at others is just plain Pejorative Slured. Can you just discuss the topic without falling into fanbase bashing, ludicrous generalizations and condescending pointless comments?

Oh and how in hell did you become a mod? Isn't what I quoted from you above exactly the definition of trolling? Seems to me you'd be better off re-reading those HF guidlines instead of trying to make smart-ass comments to ridiculate others.

read the entire thread, franklin.

 

[Munchausen]

read the entire thread, franklin.

Read my entire message. I've read the entire thread and your subsequent posts, doesn't change a thing about my comment about your tone and arrogance. I couldn't care less if you think Kostitsyn's overrated or not. I've seen him play, even if very little, and can start forming an opinion on him as a result. Even so, I'm not going to start calling others on their opinions for it, even if they're radically different than mine.

 

[nomorekids]

Read my entire message. I've read the entire thread and your subsequent posts, doesn't change a thing about my comment about your tone and arrogance. I couldn't care less if you think Kostitsyn's overrated or not. I've seen him play, even if very little, and can start forming an opinion on him as a result. Even so, I'm not going to start calling others on their opinions for it, even if they're radically different than mine.

sounds good to me.

and as long as Montreal prospects are going to be inserted into the "best..." threads, no matter how far off, i'm going to think there's a serious case of Habs-mania around here. And I'm NOT the only one who sees it. Look at any poll involving a Montreal player on the poll board, if you don't believe me.

 

[Munchausen]

sounds good to me.

and as long as Montreal prospects are going to be inserted into the "best..." threads, no matter how far off, i'm going to think there's a serious case of Habs-mania around here. And I'm NOT the only one who sees it. Look at any poll involving a Montreal player on the poll board, if you don't believe me.

Yes, nice logic. I'd invite you to actually check out the number of Habs fans that post on these boards compared to other fanbases, you might realize that they are in far greater number, hence the greater number of biased Habs related topics you seem to be noticing.

We see what we want to see, yet if you'd just start to use common sense, you'd realize that there's just as much clueless Habs fans ase there are informed ones, in proportion, compared to other teams' fans.

But again, dislike habfans if you want, again, I couldn't care less, but by doing those kind of generalizing comments, you contribute to the obvious bias on the other extreme of the scale, where all Habs is probably overrated, so I don't see how that makes your remarks any more credible than the ones you're criticizing in the 1st place.

 

[markov`]

Here's how I see it..

1) Nikolai Zherdev
2) Thomas Vanek
3) Marc-Andre Fleury
4) Eric Staal
5) Dion Phaneuf
6) Nathan Horton
7) Milan Michalek
8) Ryan Suter
9) Andrei Kostitsyn
10a) Braydon Coburn
10b) Jeff Carter

 

[Dr.Strangelove91]

1. Fleury
2. Zherdev
3. Phaneuf
4. Staal
5. Michalek
6. Horton
7. Vanek
8. Parise
9. Suter
10. Carter

Same here except I would switch Parise with Carter.

 

[Crusher20]

Yes, nice logic. I'd invite you to actually check out the number of Habs fans that post on these boards compared to other fanbases, you might realize that they are in far greater number, hence the greater number of biased Habs related topics you seem to be noticing.

We see what we want to see, yet if you'd just start to use common sense, you'd realize that there's just as much clueless Habs fans ase there are informed ones, in proportion, compared to other teams' fans.

But again, dislike habfans if you want, again, I couldn't care less, but by doing those kind of generalizing comments, you contribute to the obvious bias on the other extreme of the scale, where all Habs is probably overrated, so I don't see how that makes your remarks any more credible than the ones you're criticizing in the 1st place.

great reply

go kost go