Top five in goals & assists in same season

[Hockey Outsider]

The revival of this thread makes me think Guy Lafleur is starting to get under-rated.

I've always said that LaFleur has the best peak of any forward aside from the obvious three, especially if you're looking for someone whose regular season & playoff success coincided.

 

[Iapyi]

From the reading I've done on this forum I've always thought Phil Esposito was grossly under rated, this thread proves that.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I've always said that LaFleur has the best peak of any forward aside from the obvious three, especially if you're looking for someone whose regular season & playoff success coincided.

Lafleur is also the only player besides Gretzky and Orr to win both the Hart and Smythe in the same season. The only thing he lacks in longevity.

 

[Merya]

Lafleur is rightfully dropped down a notch, much more so than Esposito.

 

[Thenameless]

How did I not acknowledge this?

Why doesn't it? Espo played with Boston from age 25 to 33. Those encapsulate his peak years. He was a slightly late bloomer, but he was already an impact player in Chicago, playing as 2nd center behind Mikita.

How do you explain Orr and Esposito's relative stats in 1968-69?

How do you explain that Espo scored 42 goals and led the playoffs in scoring at age 36 (years after Orr and with a mediocre team), but only scored 20-27 goals playing in Chicago aged 22-24 if he wasn't a late bloomer?

Esposito is criminally underrated and I admit to being guilty of this along with others. He always gets left off of any discussion for 5th after the Big 4.

I would not choose him as highly as his peak numbers suggest, but I don't think I'd let him slip too low in an all-time draft either. Numbers clearly show that he could get it done without Orr. Furthermore, I don't even really care if he was with Orr, the man has such astronomical numbers that you can't attribute all of it to whom he skated with.

 

[Thenameless]

The revival of this thread makes me think Guy Lafleur is starting to get under-rated.

He's my favourite player, obviously. In all-time ratings, I also value peak performance over career compilers. That's why he's higher on my list than most. So is a guy like Hasek. And Lindros.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

No player accomplished this in 2019, but there were some close calls.

Patrick Kane was a single assist away from accomplishing this for what would have been the 2nd time in his career.

Nikita Kucherov and Connor McDavid were both a hat trick away from this feat.

 

[shazariahl]

As it should. Espo's offensive numbers reach Gretzky/Lemieux-like levels. He was a multiple Cup winner, while his injury in '73 put the Bruins out of the playoffs. He was the effective MVP of the '72 Summit Series. He set the all-time records for goals and points in a season. He led the NHL in goals for six straight seasons. Yet people on this forum treat him like he was Rob Brown.

The post a little above is typical of this treatment. No matter how many times it's pointed out that Esposito...
- scored 126 points in a season when Orr scored 64
- was the MVP of the Summit Series, without Orr
- scored 143 goals in his first 301 games without Orr, when he was old (then led the Rangers in scoring at age 36 when they went to the Final in '79)

....It is still the received "wisdom" that his entire career achievement is due to Orr's presence.

Ya, the more I look at some of these stats, the more I'm convinced lately that Esposito is the most underrated player in history.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Ya, the more I look at some of these stats, the more I'm convinced lately that Esposito is the most underrated player in history.

I've said it before in other threads, Espo gets hurt more than anyone by Gretzky

Esposito rewrote the history books on scoring.

- 1st to score 60
- 1st to score 70
- 1st to score 1,000 points in a decade
- 1st to score 150 points in a season
- 36 hat tricks
- retired with the Top 4 single season goal marks in history
- won 5x Ross, 6x Rocket, 3x Assists over an 8 year span
- 3x led the playoffs in scoring
- 3x led the playoffs in goals

The problem is Esposito's records and greatness didn't get any time to breathe, be fawned over, revered and build an aura around them.

This is because within 5 years of Esposito rewriting the history books, Gretzky came along and rewrote them again. This robbed Esposito of the chance to sit there for an extended period of time holding all these records. His legacy was "cheapened" by Gretzky topping him almost immediately, in essence making his exploits look 2nd rate even if they weren't. And that opened the door for the "he was just a product of Orr" narrative to grow.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I've said it before in other threads, Espo gets hurt more than anyone by Gretzky

Esposito rewrote the history books on scoring.

- 1st to score 60
- 1st to score 70
- 1st to score 1,000 points in a decade
- 1st to score 150 points in a season
- 36 hat tricks
- retired with the Top 4 single season goal marks in history
- won 5x Ross, 6x Rocket, 3x Assists over an 8 year span
- 3x led the playoffs in scoring
- 3x led the playoffs in goals

The problem is Esposito's records and greatness didn't get any time to breathe, be fawned over, revered and build an aura around them.

This is because within 5 years of Esposito rewriting the history books, Gretzky came along and rewrote them again. This robbed Esposito of the chance to sit there for an extended period of time holding all these records. His legacy was "cheapened" by Gretzky topping him almost immediately, in essence making his exploits look 2nd rate even if they weren't. And that opened the door for the "he was just a product of Orr" narrative to grow.

very true. i think also it was unfortunate for espo that the first bunch of years of his career were in a low-scoring environment and immediately after him you had these guys with an era advantage.

espo was the 2nd all-time leading scorer from 1978 to 1985, before dionne passed him. dionne had a marvelous career but he didn't peak the way espo did, though he did have great consistency and obviously an extremely high offensive peak of his own.

in dionne's first bunch of years, he isn't even as good as young espo (13th, 11th, 14th), but he's scoring 77, 90, and 78 points instead of espo's 55, 53, and 61. in espo's first four years he finished 9th, 17th, 7th, and 2nd in scoring. that 2nd was 84 points, while dionne's own breakout year four, which had him 3rd in the league, was 121 points.

i think even more than gretzky, because man gretzky was gretzky, just like howe was howe and it didn't even matter much to espo's legacy that he didn't manage to catch him, the ten years that separated espo and dionne made it so that a clearly lesser and more mortal player could pass him in less time than the gap between their ages, lessening the stunning offensive achievement of espo's career and making him feel, well, more mortal.

espo: 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2 (consecutive)
dionne: 3, 2, 2, 1, 2, 7, 5, 4 (non-consecutive)

espo's last peak season and dionne's first were the same year; 32 year old espo outscored 23 year old dionne by six points.

 

[The Panther]

How about the "1st and 1st" club, for goals and assists? There are 3 members in history:

5 x Gretzky
2 x Lemieux
1 x Esposito

 

[MadLuke]

First time reading that thread, like other I am not sure it is a good metric for specialization, goal / assist ratio distribution and consistence between season would probably be a better one.

For one removing Gretky-Lemieux (in a lazy way without looking if it push a #6 at #5) and you have:

From 1968 - 1979, there were 24 such player seasons.
From 1980 - 1991, there were 15 (8 wayne, 2 by lemieux) only 5 such seasons, like 2004-2016.
From 1992 - 2003, there were 10 (2 Lemieux) 8 such seasons, 4 of those being Jagr.
From 2004-2016, there were 5 such seasons.

The difference is possibly 100% explained by 3 special players and not necessarily some league wide change. With a little bit, 150 first unit power play players, that augment the chance to have 1-2 player making it only one time by "good luck", 1 on a 100 type of peak career season will happen about every year with that volume making it harder for the usual suspect to do it.

 

[BenchBrawl]

How about the "1st and 1st" club, for goals and assists? There are 3 members in history:

5 x Gretzky
2 x Lemieux
1 x Esposito

Howie Morenz and Newsy Lalonde also did it.

In the more modern era (the ones you mentioned), either the player was Big 4 or played with Orr.

 

[The Panther]

In the more modern era (the ones you mentioned), either the player was Big 4 or played with Orr.

Esposito -- the Rodney Dangerfield of hockey.

 

[Staniowski]

Howie Morenz and Newsy Lalonde also did it.

In the more modern era (the ones you mentioned), either the player was Big 4 or played with Orr.

Phil "played with Orr" Esposito

 

[WingsFan95]

Esposito is definetly Top 10 forward if not skater. When I see lists putting him well below I shake my head.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

pretty amazing that Orr just missed it

1974-75: T-1st in assists, 6th in goals with 46 (1 away from tying Dionne for 5th)

 

[Howie Hodge]

As a Buffalo fan who hated Boston's "Garbage Man" with a passion, I have to say he's very underrated as both a player, and as a leader. Think The Summit Series ends up the way it did without Phil?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Howie Morenz and Newsy Lalonde also did it.

In the more modern era (the ones you mentioned), either the player was Big 4 or played with Orr.

also howe, of course

lafleur and dickie moore both have back to back seasons where they were 1-2 in goals/assists, then the opposite the next year.

 

[Czech Your Math]

First time reading that thread, like other I am not sure it is a good metric for specialization, goal / assist ratio distribution and consistence between season would probably be a better one.

For one removing Gretky-Lemieux (in a lazy way without looking if it push a #6 at #5) and you have:

From 1968 - 1979, there were 24 such player seasons.
From 1980 - 1991, there were 15 (8 wayne, 2 by lemieux) only 5 such seasons, like 2004-2016.
From 1992 - 2003, there were 10 (2 Lemieux) 8 such seasons, 4 of those being Jagr.
From 2004-2016, there were 5 such seasons.

The difference is possibly 100% explained by 3 special players and not necessarily some league wide change. With a little bit, 150 first unit power play players, that augment the chance to have 1-2 player making it only one time by "good luck", 1 on a 100 type of peak career season will happen about every year with that volume making it harder for the usual suspect to do it.

I think the special players explain most of it, although more teams means more opportunities and the international talent pool makes is more competitive.

Player seasons where player finished top 10 in both goals & assists:

'68-'90 (23 seasons)- 78 times; at least 3 players in season 23 times; at least 4 players in season 11 times; 16 players at least twice; 8 players at least three times (Howe, Hull, Mikita twice each)
'91-'19 (28 seasons)- 54 times; at least 3 players in season 8 times; at least 4 players in season twice; 14 players at least twice; 7 players at least three times (Malkin, Kucherov, McDavid still twice each)

The players who have finished top 10 in both in the same season more than once since expansion:

Howe 2
Ratelle 2
Bo. Hull 2
Mikita 2
Esposito 8
Orr 3
Hodge 2
Perreault 2
Dionne 7
Lafleur 6
Bossy 3
Gretzky 9
Kurri 2
Hawerchuk 2
Yzerman 3
Lemieux 8
Sakic 4
Jagr 7
Lindros 3
Selanne 2
Kariya 2
Naslund 3
St. Louis 2
Ovechkin 2
Crosby 3
Malkin 2
Kane 3
Kucherov 2
McDavid 2

 

[VanIslander]

No love for the two guys who did it on one of the greatest offensive lines ever: the GAG Line.

In 1971-1972 everyone on the line was top-7 in NHL goals and assists.

Hadfield - 2nd goals, 4th assists
Ratelle - 5th goals 3rd assists
Gilbert 7th goals, 6th assists

If Ratelle hadn't had a broken ankle at the tail end of the regular season (and their goalie a bad knee), the Rags might have won that Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals against Espo and Orr, as well as the game thereafter to claim the title of victor.

Will we ever again see a line as equally offensive at all three positions over an entire season?

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I updated the first post for the 2020 season. Leon Draisaitl had a "top five and five" season, finishing 4th in goals and 1st in assists. It's the first time a player has accomplished this since 2016 (Kane), and only the fifth time from 2006 onwards (Jagr, D. Sedin, Malkin).

Nobody else was anywhere close to accomplishing this in 2020.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Two additions to this list. In 2021, Connor McDavid finished 2nd in goals while leading the league in assists. Leon Draisaitl placed 4th in goals and 2nd in assists.

This is the first time since 1996 when two teammates placed in the top five in both categories.

Draisaitl is now the first players since Jagr to have more than one "top five and five" season.

 

[Dingo]

Dividing it into 4 equal blocks of 12 seasons each:

From 1968 - 1979, there were 24 such player seasons.

From 1980 - 1991, there were 15 such seasons.

From 1992 - 2003, there were 10 such seasons.

From 2004-2016, there were 5 such seasons.

Interesting to note the increasing specialization of player roles.

sorry to bump an old post, but i think this illustrates how many more sharks there are in the tank than it does specialization.

 

[Reindl87]

Thanks for updating the Thread. Not bad for a Eurobum establishing himself in yet another elite club.