Top 10 NHL Rookies...

Roman Tanner

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Aug 5, 2005
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Mgmt. Excuseville
That's the only thing he isn't already stellar at, and the only area in which Staal does not have an advantage over Stastny.

First of all, that in and of itself seems debatable.

But this "only thing" happens to be "playmaking".

Isn't that one of the single biggest facets in the game.

The difference between 9 assists and 41 assists is not being a stat hound. That is monumental. And for one to truly appreciate what Paul does on the ice, the people that are stat hounds, likely don't even get it.

Forget not, there's no debate who the bluechipper here is. Jordan Staal is younger, with better upside and will be a star. But to me, what Stastny is doing right now is more impressive and more deserving of individual accolades.
 

outofrange

Registered User
Feb 6, 2007
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First of all, that in and of itself seems debatable.

But this "only thing" happens to be "playmaking".

Isn't that one of the single biggest facets in the game.

The difference between 9 assists and 41 assists is not being a stat hound. That is monumental. And for one to truly appreciate what Paul does on the ice, the people that are stat hounds, likely don't even get it.

Forget not, there's no debate who the bluechipper here is. Jordan Staal is younger, with better upside and will be a star. But to me, what Stastny is doing right now is more impressive and more deserving of individual accolades.

I agree with most of what you've said, but the bolded especially.
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
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First of all, that in and of itself seems debatable.

But this "only thing" happens to be "playmaking".

Isn't that one of the single biggest facets in the game.

The difference between 9 assists and 41 assists is not being a stat hound. That is monumental. And for one to truly appreciate what Paul does on the ice, the people that are stat hounds, likely don't even get it.

Forget not, there's no debate who the bluechipper here is. Jordan Staal is younger, with better upside and will be a star. But to me, what Stastny is doing right now is more impressive and more deserving of individual accolades.

What's debatable? Is Stastny a superior goal-scorer or PKer? Let me know in what area of the game, besides playmaking, you feel that Stastny is better than Staal.

And though the assist gap is considerable, it's worth mentioning that Staal had been relegated to bottom 6 duty for the majority of the season, has little PP time, and what he does get is on the second unit with Christensen, Malone, and Scuderi and Orpik at the points. Small wonder he has few assists. Had he been given the luxury of top 6 time the whole season and extra quality PP time like Stastny has, I doubt we'd be having this conversation.

Most Pens fans, at this point, feel that Staal is just as important to the Pens fortunes as Malkin this year. Either way, I'm not suggesting that Stastny be considered a level below Staal, merely that they should be considered on a similar plane.
 

Randall Graves*

Guest
Because he isn't as good as guys in tier III?
He's not? Staal only has a couple more goals than him, Penner has been stuck carrying Todd Marchants, and Ryan Shannons ***** all year, and he is starting to turn into a true power forward! Belongs on the 3rd tier, not the 4th.
 

Randall Graves*

Guest
I agree with this. And usually it is a pure points thing whenn not going to a goalie or defenseman. Staal does not really take a backseat to anyone other than Malkin in talent or play THIS year. There is a whole group of about equal players that few could have a problem with your making number two.

Long term though there are not any players I would take out of that rookie group but Malkin and Staal. Malkin because of the world class skills, Staal because he is only 18 damn years old (and a young 18) and the sky is the limit.
Staal takes a backseat to Kopitar based on play this year, and maybe Stastny as well who almost has DOUBLE the points.
 

Buffalo87

thehosers dot com
Mar 22, 2006
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He's not? Staal only has a couple more goals than him, Penner has been stuck carrying Todd Marchants, and Ryan Shannons ***** all year, and he is starting to turn into a true power forward! Belongs on the 3rd tier, not the 4th.

Dustin Penner has 2 more points in 2 more games while getting almost a full 2 minutes more on the PP per game. Not to mention the fact that Penner is -7 on one of the best teams in the league (he is dead last in +/- on his team) and Staal is +15 (which is the best on the Pens), that alone tells me that Staal is just as good on the offensive side and much better on the defensive side.
 

Classic Devil

Spirit of 1988
Dec 23, 2003
39,327
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Columbus, Ohio
Zajac's play is better than his stats reflect. Perhaps his most important contributions have been in his ability to step right into solid defensive play - he's better on the defensive side of the puck than the offensive side, but he and Parise are a great duo.

Zajac just breaks the top-10 this year, I admit, but I have a feeling that his numbers will make a considerable jump between this season and next - similar to the jump in numbers Parise had between this season and last.

Oh, and my top four are 1) Malkin, 2) Stastny, 3) Staal, 4) Kopitar.
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
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So Vanek is better than Crosby - other than playmaking?

This year? Probably. But that hardly proves anything in regards to Staal and Stastny. Vanek wasn't playing with a couple of maroons 5 on 5 up until a few months ago, and has had both ample and quality PP time. He hasn't made up the huge playmaking gap between he and Crosby even though he's had the opportunity to do so.

Different scenarios, different results - though I see where you were going with this.

P.S. Congrats to Stastny on beating his club record rookie point streak yesterday and tying the NHL rookie record point streak tonight! :yo:
 

Randall Graves*

Guest
Dustin Penner has 2 more points in 2 more games while getting almost a full 2 minutes more on the PP per game. Not to mention the fact that Penner is -7 on one of the best teams in the league (he is dead last in +/- on his team) and Staal is +15 (which is the best on the Pens), that alone tells me that Staal is just as good on the offensive side and much better on the defensive side.
Penner earned his PP time, that's the only way he'd be able to get any points on the board because Shannon and Marchant are clueless offensively.

Penner has more points, he'll get to 30 goals and plays a true power forward game. I am NOT saying he's better than Staal or as good, only that he is not mearly having a 'decent' rookie season like a 4th tier guy, he is having a good, solid season.
 

Randall Graves*

Guest
I disagree, but what else is new?
As i've said before, I hate the Kings but Kopitar is a tremendous all around player. He has 20 more points than Staal, does Staals defensive pressence really make up that big of a gap? Not in my opinion.
 

TrappedInFullerton

Murray SMASH
Apr 19, 2006
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Tier I:
Malkin

Tier II:
Stastny
Kopitar

Tier III:
Staal
Wolski
Vlasic

Tier IV:
Penner
Carle
Radulov
Zajac

I would say:

Tier I:
Malkin

Tier II:
Stastny (Wow, didn't know he had 65 points. Impressive. He's also a +6, while Malkin and Kopitar are both in the minus. He's very close to being a Tier I right now.)
Kopitar
Staal (It's hard putting Staal here as he only has 36 points, but his defense and shorthanded play is staggering. +15 tops all rookies. I'd say he's riding the cusp of Tier II and Tier III)

Tier III:
Vlasic (If he starts putting up more points I'd put him in Tier II, averaging nearly 22 minutes a game at 19 years old, and is a plus 5 on the Sharks, who barely ever score 5 on 5, is saying something)
Clowe (Yes, Clowe. Having done the math, had Clowe played the entire season he would have around 50 points while averaging less minutes on ice than Staal, Wolski, Malkin, Stastny, Pavelski and Zajac. Only Radulov plays less. If he played around 17 mins a game there's no telling what he could produce. Scary, I know, considering every Hockey video game has him rated as a 60 something. He'd also have around 93 PIM's)
Wolski

Tier IV:
Pavelski (Doing the math, he would have around 44 points in 68 games had he played them all. Plays pretty much the same amount of minutes Zajac does)
Radulov (Averaging about the same amount of PPG as Penner while playing less minutes and having a much better +/- at +11, second best among rookies)
Carle

It may come off as homerish what with 4 Sharks on there (though they're all in the lower Tiers), but looking at the stats and from what I've seen from watching, this is what I come up with.
 

Roman Tanner

Registered User
Aug 5, 2005
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Mgmt. Excuseville
This year? Probably. But that hardly proves anything in regards to Staal and Stastny. Vanek wasn't playing with a couple of maroons 5 on 5 up until a few months ago, and has had both ample and quality PP time. He hasn't made up the huge playmaking gap between he and Crosby even though he's had the opportunity to do so.

Different scenarios, different results - though I see where you were going with this.

P.S. Congrats to Stastny on beating his club record rookie point streak yesterday and tying the NHL rookie record point streak tonight! :yo:

I really think you're breaking down things in a way that is too concrete and defined to describe a hockey player.

IE: "Stastny is a better playmaker, and Staal is better at everything else" ? This is oversimplification and in general not accurate.

I think we disagree on a lot of levels here. I mean, I guess I could go through a list of attributes like vision, puck control, offensive spacing and intuition, passing, puck possession on the cycle, movement without the puck, etc... where I think Stastny is better then Staal, right now.

And to go out on a leap and call Staal a "superior" goal scorer seems a stretch this year, given a difference of 5 goals. He's got a couple more goals sure....but.....we're not talking a 500% difference, which is what you so succintly call the "playmaking" stat is at...

Moreover, I don't necessarily think that the best penalty killer in the NHL is the one with the most shorthanded goals. I think there are a number of intangibles there, that are hard to quantify and you seem to pass over.

As a whole, I think the product that Stastny puts on the ice, is more refined, with greater impact on the game and generally more impressive then Staal. And given the age difference, perhaps it should be. But again, the Calder isn't an age-weighted award.
 

Brooklyndevil

Registered User
Jun 24, 2005
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Call me crazy, but I would take Staal over everyone else....Yes, including Malkin. The kid is only 18 and is already great on both sides of the Puck. Geez, I hope Lou gets us a Staal. How many more of them left?
 

Jebus

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May 29, 2003
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And to go out on a leap and call Staal a "superior" goal scorer seems a stretch this year, given a difference of 5 goals. He's got a couple more goals sure....but.....we're not talking a 500% difference, which is what you so succintly call the "playmaking" stat is at...

Moreover, I don't necessarily think that the best penalty killer in the NHL is the one with the most shorthanded goals. I think there are a number of intangibles there, that are hard to quantify and you seem to pass over.

Good post. I agree 100%

If we're talking about superior goal scoring you have to say Malkin. Beyond that, Kopitar, in my opinion is significantly better than both Staal and Stastny. I say this based on the types of goals I've seen him score in regulation and the shootout. He has 18 goals and probably 15 of them were scored in different ways- often highlight-reel. Head over to youtube, or the NHL.com player profile.

He plays as a pass-first center out of choice (which in my opinion isn't necessarily a wise choice based on his line mates). My point with Crosby was also that he could probably walk away with the goal scoring lead if he adapted his play to do so. Likewise I bet Thornton could score 50 if he chose to, at the cost of some assists. I think Staal's goal/assist differential will even out a bit over the years but Anze will remain the better playmaker and pure goalscorer despite the statistical analysis that will go on. They're also a bit closer defensively than people like to admit but Kopitar plays on a poor team. He plays on the first PK unit and is always the lone forward chose to defend a 5 on 3.
 

Kafka

Registered User
Mar 1, 2002
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1.Malkin

2.Kopitar
3.Stastny

4.Staal
5.Wolski
6.Vlasic

7.Penner
8.Carle
9.Zajac
10.Clowe

That was prior to the beginning of this season. I see it more now like this:
1.Malkin
2.Stastny (and wouldn't be surprised to see him get it if he continues like that)

3.Kopitar
4.Staal

5.Vlasic
 

Ola

Registered User
Apr 10, 2004
34,597
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Sweden
Call me crazy, but I would take Staal over everyone else....Yes, including Malkin. The kid is only 18 and is already great on both sides of the Puck. Geez, I hope Lou gets us a Staal. How many more of them left?

I really like Jordan Staal, I am a big fan of his brother. I think Jordan will be great.

But whats up with the talk about him beeing a good defensive player?

He is defenitly below avg in terms of defensive positioning ect. You see right away that he is a bit lost in his positioning.

He is actually pretty far behind Malkin in terms of defensive positioning ect.
 

Brandinho

deng xiaoping gang
Aug 28, 2005
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I really like Jordan Staal, I am a big fan of his brother. I think Jordan will be great.

But whats up with the talk about him beeing a good defensive player?

He is defenitly below avg in terms of defensive positioning ect. You see right away that he is a bit lost in his positioning.

He is actually pretty far behind Malkin in terms of defensive positioning ect.

Have you ever watched him? He's an EXCELLENT defensive player.
 

LAKings88

First round fodder
Dec 4, 2006
13,819
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here or there
as a kings fan i'm saying that malkin is the clear cut rookie of the year

kopitar is hurt and who knows when he is going to come back...the missed games is going to effect point totals(malkin would have even more points if he didn't miss those games early on)

stastny has been surprisingly good and his points show it...i hesitate to say he is better then kopitar just because of the caliber of players he gets to play with and the fact that he plays behind sakic...kopitar always draws the toughest D pairing to play against every game. kopitar's linemates for most of the year have been dustin(can't score if my life depended on it) brown and who ever else they called up from manchester for the week...if the kings get him a quality scorer on his lines then his numbers might improve.

for most of the year kopitar has BEEN the kings attack. i'm not convinced that stastny would have faired as well as kopitar had their situations been reversed.
....just saying is all
 

Osprey

Registered User
Feb 18, 2005
27,170
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Stastny (Wow, didn't know he had 65 points. Impressive. He's also a +6, while Malkin and Kopitar are both in the minus. He's very close to being a Tier I right now.)
Kopitar is a minus because he's on the 2nd-worst team in the league. Only 3 players on the Kings are on the plus side. No offense, but if you weren't aware of Stastny's points and you're focusing on plus/minus so much, I'd suggest that you're not familiar enough with the prospects (outside of their stats) to rank them appropriately. Stastny is playing great, but there's no way that I'd put him in the same tier as Malkin.
 

Kuzmenkshow

Big smile, big hair, big time player
Jun 21, 2006
13,368
227
Kelowna, BC
Malkin
Kopitar (Tie with Stastny)
Stastny (Tie with Kops)
Staal
Wolski
Vlasic
Zajac
Pavelski
Penner
Radulov

HM:Clowe and Carle
 

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