Top-10 goal-scorers of all-time

[BM67]

Pogo's list uses only the top 7, and gives a bonus for leading by +25% and +50%, If I recall correctly.

I know it would take a lot more work but I figure the best way around giving the guy in 8th or 11th zero points, would be to compare everybody to the guy that finished 2nd.

Example
1st: 50 goals = 1.25
2nd: 40 goals = 1
3rd: 40 goals = 1
4th: 30 goals = 0.75
...
12th: 19 goals = 0.475

Gordie Howe = 21.76 for a 26 year career or 0.837 a year

Ok, I played with this a bit. Taking the guys that were in the top ten on Ogopogo's and pnep's lists we get 12 names.

Player - Total - /Year
Gordie Howe - 21.7612 - 0.837
Marice Richard - 16.1437 - 0.897
Bobby Hull - 15.26589 - 0.9541
Wayne Gretzky - 15.11324 - 0.756
Phil Esposito - 14.72457 - 0.818
Jean Beliveau - 13.14159 - 0.657
Nels Stewart - 11.98584 - 0.799
Mario Lemieux - 11.53229 - 0.678
Howie Morenz - 9.73978 - 0.696
Mike Bossy - 9.544499 - 0.9544
Cy Denneny - 9.04682 - 0.754
Babe Dye - 7.367185 - 0.737

 

[Snap Wilson]

Again, just throwing it out there. Adjusted goals, top five seasons:

# | Player | AdjGls
1|Wayne Gretzky|348.3
2|Phil Esposito|335.7
3|Brett Hull|330.8
4|Mario Lemieux|324.0
5|Pavel Bure|311.8
6|Bobby Hull|301.4
7|Mike Bossy|294.7
8|Jaromir Jagr|292.8
9|Gordie Howe|287.3
10|Teemu Selanne|287.1
11|Maurice Richard|284.2
12|Peter Bondra|281.3
13|Charlie Conacher|280.0
14|Guy Lafleur|277.8
15|John LeClair|270.7
16|Jari Kurri|267.7
17|Marcel Dionne|267.3
18|Steve Yzerman|263.6
19|Bill Cook|261.1
20|Joe Sakic|255.6
21|Tim Kerr|250.4
22|Keith Tkachuk|250.1
23|Alexander Mogilny|249.4
24|Nels Stewart|249.1
25|Michel Goulet|248.8

 

[BM67]

Again, just throwing it out there. Adjusted goals, top five seasons:

# | Player | AdjGls
1|Wayne Gretzky|348.3
2|Phil Esposito|335.7
3|Brett Hull|330.8
4|Mario Lemieux|324.0
5|Pavel Bure|311.8
6|Bobby Hull|301.4
7|Mike Bossy|294.7
8|Jaromir Jagr|292.8
9|Gordie Howe|287.3
10|Teemu Selanne|287.1
11|Maurice Richard|284.2
12|Peter Bondra|281.3
13|Charlie Conacher|280.0
14|Guy Lafleur|277.8
15|John LeClair|270.7
16|Jari Kurri|267.7
17|Marcel Dionne|267.3
18|Steve Yzerman|263.6
19|Bill Cook|261.1
20|Joe Sakic|255.6
21|Tim Kerr|250.4
22|Keith Tkachuk|250.1
23|Alexander Mogilny|249.4
24|Nels Stewart|249.1
25|Michel Goulet|248.8

Consecutive or any 5?

 

[Snap Wilson]

Consecutive or any 5?

Five highest, period. Doesn't have to be consecutive.

 

[BM67]

I've done 29 players now.

Player - Total - /Year
Gordie Howe - 21.7612 - 0.837
Maurice Richard - 16.1437 - 0.897
Bobby Hull - 15.26589 - 0.9541
Wayne Gretzky - 15.11324 - 0.756
Phil Esposito - 14.72457 - 0.818
Brett Hull - 14.07858 - 0.7039
Jean Beliveau - 13.14159 - 0.657
Frank Mahovlich - 12.72768 - 0.707
Marcel Dionne - 12.66449 - 0.7036
Stan Mikita - 12.481 - 0.567
Steve Yzerman - 12.41539 - 0.564
Norm Ullman - 12.09356 - 0.605
Mike Gartner - 12.03449 - 0.633
Nels Stewart - 11.98584 - 0.799
Mario Lemieux - 11.53229 - 0.678
Ted Lindsay - 11.39046 - 0.67
Bernie Geoffrion - 10.69685 - 0.669
Guy Lafleur - 9.974948 - 0.587
Jari Kurri - 9.915516 - 0.583
Howie Morenz - 9.73978 - 0.696
Mike Bossy - 9.544499 - 0.9544
Cy Denneny - 9.04682 - 0.754
Pavel Bure - 8.556589 - 0.713
Charlie Conacher - 8.17917 - 0.682
Roy Conacher - 8.129472 - 0.739
Bill Cook - 8.090805 - 0.736
Babe Dye - 7.367185 - 0.737
Bryan Hextall Sr. - 7.163373 - 0.651
Gordie Drillon - 6.380632 - 0.912

Player - Yearly average
Mike Bossy - 0.9544
Bobby Hull - 0.9541
Gordie Drillon - 0.912
Maurice Richard - 0.897
Gordie Howe - 0.837
Phil Esposito - 0.818
Nels Stewart - 0.799
Wayne Gretzky - 0.756
Cy Denneny - 0.754
Roy Conacher - 0.739
Babe Dye - 0.737
Bill Cook - 0.736
Pavel Bure - 0.713
Frank Mahovlich - 0.707
Brett Hull - 0.7039
Marcel Dionne - 0.7036
Howie Morenz - 0.696
Charlie Conacher - 0.682
Mario Lemieux - 0.678
Ted Lindsay - 0.67
Bernie Geoffrion - 0.669
Jean Beliveau - 0.657
Bryan Hextall Sr. - 0.651
Mike Gartner - 0.633
Norm Ullman - 0.605
Guy Lafleur - 0.587
Jari Kurri - 0.583
Stan Mikita - 0.567
Steve Yzerman - 0.564

Best single seasons by margin of victory*
Player - Season - Goals - Runner-up - Score
Bobby Hull 1965-66 - 54 - 32 - 1.6875
Brett Hull 1990-91 - 86 - 51 - 1.68627451
Maurice Richard 1944-45 - 50 - 32 - 1.5625
Wayne Gretzky 1983-84 - 87 - 56 - 1.553571429
Gordie Howe 1952-53 - 49 - 32 - 1.53125
Gordie Howe 1951-52 - 47 - 31 - 1.516129032
Bobby Hull 1961-62 - 50 - 33 - 1.515151515
Maurice Richard 1946-47 - 45 - 30 - 1.5
Phil Esposito 1970-71 - 76 - 51 - 1.490196078
Bobby Hull 1966-67 - 52 - 35 - 1.485714286
Charlie Conacher 1934-35 - 36 - 25 - 1.44
Wayne Gretzky 1981-82 - 92 - 64 - 1.4375
Cy Denneny 1923-24 - 22 - 16 - 1.375
Gordie Howe 1956-57 - 44 - 33 - 1.333333333
Phil Esposito 1971-72 - 66 - 50 - 1.32
Bill Cook 1926-27 - 33 - 25 - 1.32
Pavel Bure 1999-00 - 58 - 44 - 1.318181818
Phil Esposito 1973-74 - 68 - 52 - 1.307692308
Brett Hull 1991-92 - 70 - 54 - 1.296296296
Babe Dye 1924-25 - 38 - 30 - 1.266666667
Mario Lemieux 1987-88 - 70 - 56 - 1.25

*Only using the 29 names above

 

[ChrisKreider20]

Bure is definately up there. I'm doing an big stats assignment on this exact topic. Out of all the players who started their careers in and after 1985, Bure has the highest Goals per game out of all the players, including Brett Hull. So he should definately be there.

 

[arrbez]

Bure is definately up there. I'm doing an big stats assignment on this exact topic. Out of all the players who started their careers in and after 1985, Bure has the highest Goals per game out of all the players, including Brett Hull. So he should definately be there.

Yeah, but GPG is decieving when you consider how young Bure was when he retired. He was only 32.

As an example, Brett Hull didn't even leave St. Louis untill he was 34. Brett Hull's GPG as a 32 year old was .72, while Bure's career is .62. Lemieux's career GPG is higher than both of those at .75, and at the age of 32, it was a Pejorative Slured .82.

What does it all mean? Idunno. Bure would rate at #3 on my top goal scorers of the 90's list after Hull and Lemieux, and that's not bad company.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

This is BM67's method applied to every NHL player and season:

Top 50 Career Values
Name Seasons G
Gordie Howe 26 21.761
Maurice Richard 18 16.144
Bobby Hull 16 15.266
Wayne Gretzky 20 15.113
Phil Esposito 18 14.725
Brett Hull 19 14.079
Jean Beliveau 20 13.142
John Bucyk 23 12.804
Frank Mahovlich 18 12.728
Marcel Dionne 18 12.664
Luc Robitaille 19 12.549
Stan Mikita 22 12.481
Steve Yzerman 22 12.415
Mark Messier 25 12.278
Norm Ullman 20 12.094
Mike Gartner 19 12.034
Nels Stewart 15 12.005
Jaromir Jagr 15 11.905
Alex Delvecchio 24 11.808
Dave Andreychuk 23 11.691
Brendan Shanahan 18 11.569
Mario Lemieux 17 11.532
Ted Lindsay 17 11.390
Joe Sakic 17 11.067
Bernie Geoffrion 16 10.697
Joe Nieuwendyk 19 10.589
Dino Ciccarelli 19 10.391
Aurel Joliat 16 10.351
Jean Ratelle 21 10.149
Peter Bondra 15 10.079
Ron Francis 23 10.027
Mats Sundin 15 9.983
Guy Lafleur 17 9.975
Jari Kurri 17 9.916
Dean Prentice 22 9.855
Howie Morenz 14 9.711
Teemu Selanne 13 9.622
Pierre Turgeon 18 9.604
Mike Bossy 10 9.544
Mike Modano 16 9.487
Pat Verbeek 20 9.399
Mark Recchi 17 9.317
Andy Bathgate 17 9.244
Jeremy Roenick 17 9.236
Henri Richard 20 9.133
Dave Keon 18 9.097
Gil Perreault 17 9.072
Keith Tkachuk 14 9.048
Yvan Cournoyer 16 9.035
Michel Goulet 15 9.024

Top 25 Per-Season
Alexander Ovechkin 0.962962963
Mike Bossy 0.954449862
Bobby Hull 0.954118012
Gordie Drillon 0.911518916
Maurice Richard 0.896872099
Ilya Kovalchuk 0.865486676
Gordie Howe 0.8369692
Phil Esposito 0.818031733
Nels Stewart 0.800363265
Jaromir Jagr 0.793675025
Syl Apps Sr. 0.764879829
John "Jack" Adams 0.764705882
Wayne Gretzky 0.755662193
Cy Denneny 0.746429459
Brett Hull 0.74097771
Teemu Selanne 0.740168135
Roy Conacher 0.739042922
Bill Cook 0.735527685
David "Sweeney" Schriner 0.726123826
Sidney Crosby 0.722222222
Pavel Bure 0.713049108
Frank Mahovlich 0.707093585
Marcel Dionne 0.703583031
Howie Morenz 0.693648387
Jarome Iginla 0.686322314

Note that I'm giving players points regardless of where they rank in the scoring race, so even a player that's 200th in the league can still gain a few fractions of a point per year.

 

[XploD]

Yeah, but GPG is decieving when you consider how young Bure was when he retired. He was only 32.

As an example, Brett Hull didn't even leave St. Louis untill he was 34. Brett Hull's GPG as a 32 year old was .72, while Bure's career is .62. Lemieux's career GPG is higher than both of those at .75, and at the age of 32, it was a Pejorative Slured .82.

What does it all mean? Idunno. Bure would rate at #3 on my top goal scorers of the 90's list after Hull and Lemieux, and that's not bad company.

But consider that Bure's career started 6 years after Hull joined the league and 8 years after Lemieux joined the league so they had a lot of time to collect a high GPG before the defensive era started. Bure didn't have that chance. I seriously doubt that Bure's career GPG would've gone down much if he had played a few more years in this new NHL. He didn't show signs of slowing down even as a Ranger and if Nylander and Straka can play at pace that will place them top 10 in scoring, I'm sure Bure wouldn't have much of a problem keeping his goal scoring pace up.

 

[arrbez]

But consider that Bure's career started 6 years after Hull joined the league and 8 years after Lemieux joined the league so they had a lot of time to collect a high GPG before the defensive era started. Bure didn't have that chance. I seriously doubt that Bure's career GPG would've gone down much if he had played a few more years in this new NHL. He didn't show signs of slowing down even as a Ranger and if Nylander and Straka can play at pace that will place them top 10 in scoring, I'm sure Bure wouldn't have much of a problem keeping his goal scoring pace up.

That's my point, GPG is a misleading stat. There's just too many factors.

However, I would still rate Bure behind Hull and Lemieux. At their peaks, he wasn't within 20 goals of them. I don't care what era you play in, scoring 85 goals in a season is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[XploD]

That's my point, GPG is a misleading stat. There's just too many factors.

However, I would still rate Bure behind Hull and Lemieux. At their peaks, he wasn't within 20 goals of them. I don't care what era you play in, scoring 85 goals in a season is absolutely ridiculous.

This is exactly why Bure doens't get the recognition he deserves. He just played in the wrong era and people doesn't take the time to look up how his stats would've translated to the era where all the records were set. If they would've peaked at the same time he would have been a lot closer to them than he was and he possibly even would've scored more.

Let's compare Bure's 58 goal season to Hull's 86 goal season and Lemiuex's 85 goal season.

Mario Lemieux
1988-89
GPG: 1,119
GPG leaguewise per team: 3,742

GPG/GPG leaguewise per team: 29,90%


Brett Hull
1990-91
GPG: 1,103
GPG leaguewise per team: 3,455

GPG/GPG leaguewise per team: 31,92%


Pavel Bure
1999-00
GPG: 0,784
GPG leaguewise per team: 2,747

GPG/GPG leaguewise per team: 28,54%

 

[Snap Wilson]

If you now translate this with the GPG/Team GPG stat, you'll see that Bure would have surpassed Lemieux in his 85 goal season and been 6 goals behind Brett Hull in his amazing 86 goal season.

What purpose does the team GPG stat serve?

I have Bure's 2000 season translating to 69 goals (in 72 games) in 1991 terms. Still a good deal behind Brett Hull's 86.

 

[XploD]

What purpose does the team GPG stat serve?

I have Bure's 2000 season translating to 69 goals (in 72 games) in 1991 terms. Still a good deal behind Brett Hull's 86.

Sorry. That's a mistake by me. I used this one on a different forum for a different purpose. The correct one should of course be league GPG. I've fixed it now. However I'm talking about Bure's 99-00 season. Of course, I'm not taking ice time etc into account, that's too much work. What's your formula for comparing seasons?

 

[Snap Wilson]

Instead of goals per game, I'll just list the highest goal scoring standard deviation scores in a season (minimum 40 actual games):

# | Player | Year | GSDS
1|Brett Hull|1991|5.98
2|Wayne Gretzky|1984|5.59
3|Cam Neely|1992|5.52
4|Mario Lemieux|1993|5.51
5|Mario Lemieux|1996|5.31
6|Phil Esposito|1971|5.29
7|Mario Lemieux|1989|5.24
8|Pavel Bure|2000|5.11
9|Wayne Gretzky|1982|5.06
10|Mario Lemieux|2001|4.96

 

[Snap Wilson]

I'm talking about his 99 season. You could go with the other one aswell but that will tell you less of the story. Of course, I'm not taking ice time etc into account, that's too much work.

1999-00, right? So am I. From an adjusted standpoint, it's clearly Bure's best. I don't see him catching either Hull or Lemieux in the years you specified.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

When you're calculating the standard deviation in GPG, are you looking at every player to play in the NHL that year, or is there a threshold for minimum number of games?

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Bure did have a couple years before scoring really dropped didnt he?

I dont get why GPG in ratio to your entire teams GPG is so important. What exactly is this measuring? Are you trying to show relative contribution a player had to his team? Or overall offensive strength of his team?

 

[Snap Wilson]

When you're calculating the standard deviation in GPG, are you looking at every player to play in the NHL that year, or is there a threshold for minimum number of games?

Nope, every player. Keep in mind, it's weighted by games played, so the guys who only play a few games barely effect it.

 

[XploD]

Instead of goals per game, I'll just list the highest goal scoring standard deviation scores in a season (minimum 40 actual games):

# | Player | Year | GSDS
1|Brett Hull|1991|5.98
2|Wayne Gretzky|1984|5.59
3|Cam Neely|1992|5.52
4|Mario Lemieux|1993|5.51
5|Mario Lemieux|1996|5.31
6|Phil Esposito|1971|5.29
7|Mario Lemieux|1989|5.24
8|Pavel Bure|2000|5.11
9|Wayne Gretzky|1982|5.06
10|Mario Lemieux|2001|4.96

Missed that list. Not arguing with that. Good job.

I dont get why GPG in ratio to your entire teams GPG is so important. What exactly is this measuring? Are you trying to show relative contribution a player had to his team? Or overall offensive strength of his team?

Sorry, I mixed it up with another formula I just used on another forum comparing Lemieux and Gretzky using it to show how dominant they were for their teams.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Nope, every player. Keep in mind, it's weighted by games played, so the guys who only play a few games barely effect it.

Oh, okay. That makes sense. I didn't realize you weighed it by games played.

 

[Snap Wilson]

Oh, okay. That makes sense. I didn't realize you weighed it by games played.

Yeah, no other way to do it. The standard deviation is weighted the same way.

 

[arrbez]

This is exactly why Bure doens't get the recognition he deserves. He just played in the wrong era and people doesn't take the time to look up how his stats would've translated to the era where all the records were set. If they would've peaked at the same time he would have been a lot closer to them than he was and he possibly even would've scored more.

Let's compare Bure's 58 goal season to Hull's 86 goal season and Lemiuex's 85 goal season.

Mario Lemieux
1988-89
GPG: 1,119
GPG leaguewise per team: 3,742

GPG/GPG leaguewise per team: 29,90%


Brett Hull
1990-91
GPG: 1,103
GPG leaguewise per team: 3,455

GPG/GPG leaguewise per team: 31,92%


Pavel Bure
1999-00
GPG: 0,784
GPG leaguewise per team: 2,747

GPG/GPG leaguewise per team: 28,54%

Man, When Brett Hull scored 86 goals, the second place guy in the league had 51. That's arguably the most dominant goal scoring season ever. It doesn't matter how many goals each team scored. He won the scoring title by 35 goals and took home the Hart Trophy for his trouble. That's insane.

I think the more you analyze this kind of stuff, the more warped it becomes. It's gotten to the point where we're willing to discount anything that happened prior to 1995 as a product of era.

Besides, from what I've seen in this thread, Hull comes out ahead of Bure in all of the "adjusted for era" dealies anyways. Single season, five year peak, etc.

Bure may have the best highlite reel, but Brett Hull put the puck in the net to a higher degree. It's close, but Brett was better.

 

[XploD]

Man, When Brett Hull scored 86 goals, the second place guy in the league had 51. That's arguably the most dominant goal scoring season ever. It doesn't matter how many goals each team scored. He won the scoring title by 35 goals and took home the Hart Trophy for his trouble. That's insane.

I think the more you analyze this kind of stuff, the more warped it becomes. It's gotten to the point where we're willing to discount anything that happened prior to 1995 as a product of era.

Besides, from what I've seen in this thread, Hull comes out ahead of Bure in all of the "adjusted for era" dealies anyways. Single season, five year peak, etc.

Yeah, that season was absolutely insane. Bure's 99-00 wasn't too far off though, he was on pace for 64 goals when the second place guy had 44. But I guess moneyp's formula shows this better than I do.

Bure may have the best highlite reel, but Brett Hull put the puck in the net to a higher degree. It's close, but Brett was better.

Thank you. That's what I wanted. Yes it's close, a lot closer than it sounds when you say "at their peaks, he wasn't within 20 goals of them" as that just isn't the whole truth.

 

[JonathanK]

Here are the ten best pure goal-scorers ever, as Yours Truly sees it...

1. Mike Bossy
- I don´t know anybody else who the word ´goal-scorer´ would describe better. The deadliest (wrist) shot ever? And yeah, he´s my favorite Canadian player.

2. Mario Lemieux
- He was a decent goal-scorer also

3. Maurice Richard
- Can´t say that I know an awful lot about Rocket, but I guess he belongs here...

4. Bobby Hull
- He scored a few with his slapshot

5. Phil Esposito
- Mr. Garbage Goal

6. Anatoli Firsov
- The only player who has scored more than a goal a game in World Championship history. Maybe you think that´s nothing, but how come no one else has done it?

7. Boris Mikhailov
- The Soviet Espo? Physically no, but yeah, it was more about the quantity and less about the quality of goals that mattered to him

8. Brett Hull
- Now where did he get that shot?

9. Wayne Gretzky
- Okay, no one else has ever scored as many goals on one season or overall (in the NHL), but it´s still hard for me to place him higher. First and foremost, he was a passer and set-up man

10. Vladimir Krutov
- So his career was a little disappointing in the end, but he was a scoring-machine during the ´80s

Honourable mentions: Jari Kurri, Guy Lafleur, Pavel Bure, Vaclav Nedomansky, Valeri Kharlamov, Sergei Makarov


It could be mentioned that (of the top-10 players) Bossy, Richard, Bobby Hull (NHL), Boris Mikhailov and Brett Hull all have more career goals than assists, whereas Lemieux, Esposito (quite surprisingly!) and of course Gretzky all have more assists than goals. I don´t know about Firsov and Krutov...

good list, but you have to have gretzky higher, even if he was more of a playmaker.