Top-10 goal-scorers of all-time

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Marcus-74, Dec 1, 2006.

  1. Marcus-74

    Marcus-74 Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Here are the ten best pure goal-scorers ever, as Yours Truly sees it...

    1. Mike Bossy
    - I don´t know anybody else who the word ´goal-scorer´ would describe better. The deadliest (wrist) shot ever? And yeah, he´s my favorite Canadian player.

    2. Mario Lemieux
    - He was a decent goal-scorer also :)

    3. Maurice Richard
    - Can´t say that I know an awful lot about Rocket, but I guess he belongs here...

    4. Bobby Hull
    - He scored a few with his slapshot

    5. Phil Esposito
    - Mr. Garbage Goal

    6. Anatoli Firsov
    - The only player who has scored more than a goal a game in World Championship history. Maybe you think that´s nothing, but how come no one else has done it?

    7. Boris Mikhailov
    - The Soviet Espo? Physically no, but yeah, it was more about the quantity and less about the quality of goals that mattered to him

    8. Brett Hull
    - Now where did he get that shot?

    9. Wayne Gretzky
    - Okay, no one else has ever scored as many goals on one season or overall (in the NHL), but it´s still hard for me to place him higher. First and foremost, he was a passer and set-up man

    10. Vladimir Krutov
    - So his career was a little disappointing in the end, but he was a scoring-machine during the ´80s

    Honourable mentions: Jari Kurri, Guy Lafleur, Pavel Bure, Vaclav Nedomansky, Valeri Kharlamov, Sergei Makarov


    It could be mentioned that (of the top-10 players) Bossy, Richard, Bobby Hull (NHL), Boris Mikhailov and Brett Hull all have more career goals than assists, whereas Lemieux, Esposito (quite surprisingly!) and of course Gretzky all have more assists than goals. I don´t know about Firsov and Krutov...
     
  2. XploD

    XploD Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,243
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    I respect your opinion but for me this list fails when you don't mention Pavel Bure in the top 10. Doesn't matter how much you hate him for leaving Vancouver or for just being a Russian. The guy scored 0.623 goals per game, the third highest of any player and he played almost his whole career in the dead puck era on bad teams. Yes his career was cut short and it's possible that his GPG ratio would have declined but he never showed any signs of slowing down, even after many knee surgeries. I believe he even could've increased his GPG ratio playing in the new NHL which is basically made for players like Bure.

    I'm a big Bure fan so I might be a bit biased in his favor (I would place him top 5, possibly even top 3) but not having Bure in the top 10 of any goal-scorers list is just wrong imo and there are many good arguments to be made for placing him top 5.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2006
  3. bleuer

    bleuer Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,052
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    54
    Home Page:
    Selanne? :)
     
  4. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,407
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Location:
    Mass/formerly Ont
    "pure goal-scorer" is a term you hear a lot but I do not know what it means nor have I ever seen a clear definition. I suspect it means different things to different people. What is your definition of "pure goal scorer". Anyway, in any analysis of all-time goal scorers I would move Bobby Hull to #1. move Bossy to #5 or higher, inset Gordie Howe in the top 5 & include geoffrion somewhere in the top 10.
     
  5. Marcus-74

    Marcus-74 Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have trouble putting active players on all-time lists for some reason. Certainly Selänne deserves a consideration, especially now when he´s playing great again.

    And Bure, well, I just think he would be slightly "out of place" in the top-10. For instance, all the Soviet players I placed above him were just a bit better - both as players & goal-scorers - than him IMO, though it´s hard to compare.

    But rather than point out the weaknesses on my list, I wish you would come up with lists of your own.

    Yeah, forgot Gordie Howe...
     
  6. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Newspaper reporter
    Location:
    Bentley reunion
    Three very noticeable omissions: Howe, Geoffrion and Charlie Conacher. Howe's already been covered. He was scoring 40-plus goals consistently at a time when every team had a future HHOF goalie, and at a time when the average scoring was under five goals per game. (And they were playing 70-game seasons). He was in the top five of NHL scoring 20 straight seasons, and many of those years he had more goals than assists.

    Geoffrion only scored 30 goals four times, but keep in mind the reasons I mentioned above for Gordie. Anyone who scores 50 during the Original Six deserves a place on this list. Incredibly, he had double digit point totals in eight straight playoff years, at a time when they only played a maximum of 14 playoff games, and the scoring hovered around five goals per game.

    Charlie Conacher was likely the best goal scorer to ever play the game until Rocket Richard came along. Nicknamed "The Big Bomber," his shot dented rink boards. He was the top goal scorer in the league five times. An absolutely dominant force who was one of the game's first true power forwards.

    I'd say remove Firsov (to have Firsov ahead of Gretzky is criminal, the reason nobody's done it since Firsov might have something to do with the calibre of the tournament), Brett Hull (great goal scorer, but I'd take Conacher ahead of him) and Krutov (shouldn't be anywhere near this list. I'd rate Makarov ahead of Krutov).
     
  7. KariyaIsGod*

    KariyaIsGod* Guest

    Gretzky that low is a slap in the face.

    Forget the numbers and the records, you are talking about pure goal scoring. He possessed the most ACCURATE slapshot in the history of the game. Not the hardest, the most accurate.

    He made goalies look silly with his ability to place it.
     
  8. Nalyd Psycho

    Nalyd Psycho Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    24,415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    No Bandwagon
    Home Page:
    On an all-time list Denneny, Lalonde and Malone should all be concidered. Probably Taylor and Foyston as well.
     
  9. saskganesh

    saskganesh Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,368
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    96
    Location:
    the Annex
    I wish this thread would have been about top "10 goal" scorers of all time.
    would have really made us think, coming up with good forwards who had, well, mediocre offensive abilities.

    doug jarvis is one. bob gainey would have been disqualified because he usually potted goals in the teens.
     
  10. trevchar1971

    trevchar1971 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Bobby Hull/ Mike Bossy/ Maurice Richard/ Phil Esposito/ Mario Lemieux/ Wayne Gretzky/ Brett Hull/ Guy Lafleur/ Bernie Geoffrion/ Pavel Bure
     
  11. XploD

    XploD Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,243
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    I doubt it.
     
  12. KariyaIsGod*

    KariyaIsGod* Guest

    Then watch more hockey...
     
  13. Ronald Pagan

    Ronald Pagan Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Gretzky scored the most goals of anyone in the league. He definetely deserves to be in the top 10. Howe also deserves to be in the top ten. Bure? Yeah he had the ability but he doesn't have the longevity or the numbers to be considered one of the top goal scorers.
     
  14. Czech Your Math

    Czech Your Math Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,846
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    bohemia
    (Post-WW2)

    1. Mario Lemieux
    2. Bob Hull
    3. Gordie Howe
    4. Rocket Richard
    5. Wayne Gretzky
    6. Phil Esposito
    7. Brett Hull
    8. Mike Bossy
    9. Pavel Bure
    10(tie) Beliveau, Geoffrion, Jagr, Lafleur, Selanne
     
  15. XploD

    XploD Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    3,243
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Impossible.

    Well Bure has the 0,623 GPG number, playing most of his career in an era where it was a lot harder to score than in the era the two players with a higher GPG played in. I'm not sure what we're measuring here though. If we're not going by ability then what determines a goal scorer?

    In my book, longevity doesn't have too much to do with being a good goal scorer. That's for comparing how great of a career a player had, not his abilities in goal scoring. Otherwise we could just go with the top 10 in goals scored in a career, which I think we can all agree isn't the whole truth. Gretzky has scored the most goals but I think most will say he isn't the greatest goal scorer ever.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2006
  16. Snap Wilson

    Snap Wilson Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2003
    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just for shots and goggles, here's my own list of the top single-season (adjusted) goal scorers. "AdjG" is adjusted goals. Further explanation available upon request.

     
  17. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,407
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Location:
    Mass/formerly Ont
    It was lot harder toscore in the Hull-Howe-Richard eras than it was in the Bure era.
     
  18. Snap Wilson

    Snap Wilson Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2003
    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    For an entire team, yes. For an individual player (who received a heck of a lot more ice time in that era), not really.
     
  19. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,407
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Location:
    Mass/formerly Ont
    Disagree. It was tough to score in the Hull-Howe-Richard eras. You might have got more ice-time but you were playing in a very tight checking era & were expected to back check.
     
  20. coolwasabi

    coolwasabi Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    It's unfair to penalize Gretzky just because he was also an awesome (i.e. obviously the best of all time) playmaker.
     
  21. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    13,204
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    131
    Location:
    Toronto
    It's interesting how low Richard's 50 goal season is on that list. A fairly overrated achievement IMO, when you consider how watered down the league was in 1945.
     
  22. Snap Wilson

    Snap Wilson Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2003
    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You can disagree all you want, but the numbers suggest that it ain't quite so. The weighted individual goals per game is much higher in the late 40s and 50s, and the standard deviation was less balanced, regardless of how much backchecking they were doing, they were getting a hell of a lot more scoring chances comparatively.
     
  23. Nalyd Psycho

    Nalyd Psycho Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    24,415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    No Bandwagon
    Home Page:
    I have to take issue with your weighing of goals pre-1930. It is significantly tougher to score when forward passes are illegal.
     
  24. Hockey Outsider

    Hockey Outsider Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,481
    Likes Received:
    347
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Requested. :)

    Your numbers look reasonable (and are pretty similar to my adjusted goal-scorer list). I'd be interested in hearing about how you calculated this.
     
  25. Snap Wilson

    Snap Wilson Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2003
    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    A circumstance which effected everyone in the league. Since my adjusted goals are worked against an average for that particular year, it's irrelevant.

    As far as raw numbers go, such circumstances are mitigated by players pretty much playing the whole game and offense being funneled to the same two or three players (if that many).

    My numbers are generated by how difficult it is for a player to get the number of goals per game. That's determined by the weighted averages of individual goals per game and the grouped standard deviations of same.

    In English, that means that how tough or easy it is for an individual player to score is already figured in. You can tell me how or why it was harder or easier to score during a specific era. My formula actually puts it into mathematical terms.
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"