Top 10 Defencemen Prospects

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Sting

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I'm surprised Meszaros is so low, and on many, not even on the list. I've never seen him before but I had the impression that he was a steal for the Sens. Will he crack the NHL?
 

borro

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RallyKiller said:
overrated: Woywitka

Underrated: Grebeshkov, Thelen,

Good point about Woywitka (lost out to Pitkanen in Philly) and Grebeshkov. Thelen may be a bit more of an offenseman than a defenseman. He has the ability, the question is his heart!
 

Mizral

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Surprised so many people had Coburn so high.

May I ask why?

I get the impression many people rank him highly due to his draft status, however I would say that if you saw him play last year, you'd realize that Atlanta made a big, big mistake drafting him so high. He's not terrible, but he doesn't belong up there with Dion Phaneuf & co.
 

borro

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Jay Thompson said:
Surprised so many people had Coburn so high.

May I ask why?

I get the impression many people rank him highly due to his draft status, however I would say that if you saw him play last year, you'd realize that Atlanta made a big, big mistake drafting him so high. He's not terrible, but he doesn't belong up there with Dion Phaneuf & co.

Coburn laid a hit on Fehr that was downright dirty. He is very aggressive and I think gets the benefit of the doubt because of that.
 

borro

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windowlicker said:
Are you trying to be ironic? Woywitka is overrated, yet he lost out to Joni Pitkanen last year.
Last time I checked, Joni isn't too bad of a current & projected Dman.

Actually I wasn't passing any judgment beyond the fact that Pitkanen was a higher class of player. Woywitka will be a very good player. Just not in the class of some of the names mentioned.
 

borro

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Sting004 said:
I'm surprised Meszaros is so low, and on many, not even on the list. I've never seen him before but I had the impression that he was a steal for the Sens. Will he crack the NHL?

Not for 2-3 years will Meszaros be an NHL ready dman.
 

Mizral

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borro said:
Coburn laid a hit on Fehr that was downright dirty. He is very aggressive and I think gets the benefit of the doubt because of that.

Don't mistake one hit or one game to be a judge of a players aggressiveness. I saw him play for Portland last year and talked to some Portland fans and the prevailing thought is that he's a p***ycat most nights. I even talked to a scout in HF Chat who said he was the most overrated defenseman of the 2003 draft. His skillset is quite underwhelming, too. A lot of folks expected a lot more, but he just doesn't have the high level of puck skills that Atlanta was hoping he'd develop more.
 

HellsBells

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Seven_Nation_Army said:
:lol :lol: ... right...just keep getting that spoonfed homerism...Suter was the best dman at the WJC...no ifs and or buts about it...while he was on the ice...the opposing team NEVER scored.

:lol

And you have the nerve to call Flames fans homers. Suter was clearly NOT the best D-man at the WJC. Maybe 3rd behind Lepisto & Phaneuf.

Funny how anyone that says Phaneuf is the best is a homer, even though just about every hockey expert would agree. But its okay for Preds fans to say Suter, even though most experts would disagree.

:dunno:
 

PigPen

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Steve Latin said:
You're either drastically overrating Kronwall or drastically underrating Backman. Both are very good young players, but neither even have a full season under their belts yet.

S L

Neither. I watched Backman play quite a bit last year (around 30 games or so. Center Ice is a nice thing to have.) and never once have I seen him do anything outstanding. He's an alright passer, an alright skater and he has ok defensive awareness. A number 4 or number 5 guy in the league and I'd count last season as almost a full season. 66 games plus the entire first round of the playoffs?

Kronwall is faster, a better passer and has a much better shot. And for a guy that's only 6'0" he plays a lot bigger than Backman who's 6'4". He's been better offensively at just about every level, too. He doesn't have a full season under his belt yet but from the 25 games or so I watched him last year, including the T.C. prospect tournament, he looked much better than Backman.
 

SneakerPimp82

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PigPen said:
Neither. I watched Backman play quite a bit last year (around 30 games or so. Center Ice is a nice thing to have.) and never once have I seen him do anything outstanding. He's an alright passer, an alright skater and he has ok defensive awareness. A number 4 or number 5 guy in the league and I'd count last season as almost a full season. 66 games plus the entire first round of the playoffs?

Kronwall is faster, a better passer and has a much better shot. And for a guy that's only 6'0" he plays a lot bigger than Backman who's 6'4". He's been better offensively at just about every level, too. He doesn't have a full season under his belt yet but from the 25 games or so I watched him last year, including the T.C. prospect tournament, he looked much better than Backman.

wait and see how kronwall adjusts to the nhl speed and physicality.
 

Flames Draft Watcher

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And your point is?

Using stats from one tournament doesn't prove anything. People generally resort to stats when they haven't seen much of players. It would appear from reading a lot about Phaneuf and Suter that people in the business SLIGHTLY prefer Phaneuf and thought he had a better tournament. But hey, if stats make you feel better about things go ahead and think they mean something concrete...
 

Motown Beatdown

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SneakerPimp82 said:
wait and see how kronwall adjusts to the nhl speed and physicality.


He didn't seem out of place last year before he got hurt. But i do disagree with my fellow Wings fans about his scoring productions. I just dont think Dave Lewis will give him the minutes he needs to put up 30 plus points.
 

looooob

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Seven_Nation_Army said:
that's impressive, I suppose, but it's a small sample size no?

regardless Phaneuf had a higher plus minus than Suter, so if Suter wasn never scored on (clap clap clap) then clearly Phaneuf was on the ice more often when his team was generating offence

Phaneuf was named to the tourney allstars, and Suter was not. I know the reflex answer is going to be that Canadian homers were somehow involved with picking Phaneuf over Suter, but they named an American best Goalie, best forward and tourney MVP, they named a Finn the best defenceman, and the AS team had 2 Americans,2 Finns and 2 Canadians

I certainly haven't watched enough of either Phaneuf or Suter to say who is the better player, but clearly the evidence is that it wasn't just Flames fans that though that Phaneuf was as good, or better, than Suter during the tournament...no matter how impressive the fact that Suter wasn't scored on appears to be
 

Dave is a killer

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Flames Draft Watcher said:
And your point is?

Using stats from one tournament doesn't prove anything. People generally resort to stats when they haven't seen much of players. It would appear from reading a lot about Phaneuf and Suter that people in the business SLIGHTLY prefer Phaneuf and thought he had a better tournament. But hey, if stats make you feel better about things go ahead and think they mean something concrete...

just POINTING OUT that Suter never allowed a goal while he was on the ice...Phaneuf did...but it wasn't against the Americans...he gave up three goals to Lukas GRAUWILER(not-drafted), Gianni EHRENSPERGER(not-drafted) and Ondrej NEMEC

Two jobbers and a czech well done :handclap:
 

SmokeyClause

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Arguing who is better between Phaneuf and Suter is impossible. They are different players in different leagues with different outlooks for next season. The bottom line is this, I think Nashville would select Suter again if given the chance and I think Calgary would select Phaneuf again if given the chance.
 

Flames Draft Watcher

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Seven_Nation_Army said:
just POINTING OUT that Suter never allowed a goal while he was on the ice...Phaneuf did...but it wasn't against the Americans...he gave up three goals to Lukas GRAUWILER(not-drafted), Gianni EHRENSPERGER(not-drafted) and Ondrej NEMEC

Two jobbers and a czech well done :handclap:

And your point is? You seem to be implying that Suter is better or had a better tourney because no goals were scored while he was on the ice. And yet that would be a very silly conclusion to draw as relying strictly on stats tends not to paint the whole picture (as anyone who's looked at Marek Malik's league leading +/- last year would clearly see, just one example of many.)

If you watched Phaneuf every shift he was on the ice of the tourney and did the same for Suter and thought that Suter was better then I'd put some stock into what you're saying. As it is your stats comparison is pretty much meaningless.
 

windowlicker

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Flames Draft Watcher said:
And your point is?

Using stats from one tournament doesn't prove anything. People generally resort to stats when they haven't seen much of players. It would appear from reading a lot about Phaneuf and Suter that people in the business SLIGHTLY prefer Phaneuf and thought he had a better tournament. But hey, if stats make you feel better about things go ahead and think they mean something concrete...

Actually, when used in conjecture with an argument or a disagreement; cold, hard stats are the equivalent of a "Check Mate".
 

SmokeyClause

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Seven_Nation_Army said:
just POINTING OUT that Suter never allowed a goal while he was on the ice...Phaneuf did...but it wasn't against the Americans...he gave up three goals to Lukas GRAUWILER(not-drafted), Gianni EHRENSPERGER(not-drafted) and Ondrej NEMEC

Two jobbers and a czech well done :handclap:


It's not necessarily Phaneuf's fault that someone scored while he was on the ice. Goals happen, that is part of hockey and there are 4 other players and a goalie on the ice that are likely just as responsible. Trying to lessen Dion's achievements by pointing out that he was a minus on a few shifts is an exercise in futility. Even if he did make a few mistakes, he's 18 years old. If he wasn't making mistakes, I'd be worried if he was a robot.

But Suter not giving up any goals is very, very impressive. I'd like to see him continue that feat in Nashville. We could use the help :D
 

Flames Draft Watcher

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windowlicker said:
Actually, when used in conjecture with an argument or a disagreement; cold, hard stats are the equivalent of a "Check Mate".

You know I used to believe that as well. But I could give you countless examples of how stats can be extremely misleading. Nothing substitutes for watching the players exclusively and scouting them. Stats are a weak attempt to prove anything in hockey IMO. Unfortunately on a messageboard there's no way to prove anything. There's subjective opinions and every poster has to decide how much stock to place in anyone's opinions. So a lot of people have decided that you can't put stock into anyone's opinion and that stats are the only objective way to view things. That unfortunately just doesn't work.

Scouts certainly don't prove players are better than other players by looking at the stat sheet and if you believe that you really don't have a clue. They don't skip the tourney and decide that Suter was the best player out there because no goals were scored while he was on the ice. They watch the player, evaluate how he handles defensive assignments, watch his play reading ability, his pass outletting, his skating, his physical play, his instincts, etc. Seven_Nation_Army doesn't appear to take any of this into account thus his opinion is highly suspect to me. His apparent attempt to prove that Suter had the better tourney by looking at one stat is worthless and meaningless.
 
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