Speculation: Too many "ifs" next season should make Toronto struggle make the playoffs

[Deebo]

They would have been 2nd or 1st in all but 1 other division FYI.

They also had pretty strong records against all 4 divisions, the only division they had a sub .600 points % against was the the Metro and it was .583 which they only played 4 fewer games against them than the Atlantic.

 

[rent free]

They would have been 2nd or 1st in all but 1 other division FYI.

They would have had to verse much harder competition.

 

[Ulysses31]

Leafs are better already simply with marner matthews nylander rielly being a year older.

Also JVR bozak < kapenen johnsson

 

[Boutette]

They would have had to verse much harder competition.

Not according to the Leaf's actual record.

 

[ottomaddox]

What can I say folks?

The Hoffman trade to FLA all of a sudden changed the circumstances in the Atlantic. Now I never predicted this trade, but I did predict that subtle offseason moves could make TOR's comfortable 3rd place finish a challenge.

All I am saying is that Dubas has to have a hell of an offseason to return to the playoffs next season. A Calder Cup is not enough. He's going to have to sign some UFAs and make some trades.

The Eastern Conference is a tough place to be now, and the Atlantic is on the rise.

 

[Hockeyholic]

This is a first round playoff team at best. Defense is atrocious. Lack of physicality is a killer in the postseason. Not to mention that Mike " First Round Knockout" Babcock gets outcoached consistently.

 

[LeafFever]

What can I say folks?

The Hoffman trade to FLA all of a sudden changed the circumstances in the Atlantic. Now I never predicted this trade, but I did predict that subtle offseason moves could make TOR's comfortable 3rd place finish a challenge.

All I am saying is that Dubas has to have a hell of an offseason to return to the playoffs next season. A Calder Cup is not enough. He's going to have to sign some UFAs and make some trades.

The Eastern Conference is a tough place to be now, and the Atlantic is on the rise.

Why are you assuming the Leafs can't finish higher than 3rd? I do not agree at all. Divisions never just stay the same year after year.
And I am on record as picking Florida to win the division prior to this trade.

 

[Silver91]

LOL how is there 11 pages on this topic?

4 of the players are 11-13 forwards or 6-7 D. None of those guys are worth worrying about losing.

Bozak is a heavily sheltered C who is good on the draw, and can score when put in a favourable position, but ultimately replaceable.

JVR is the only player of significant value, and that value drops a LOT when he signs his next contract. He is a single-faceted player, who, when not scoring, is not helping the team in any purposeful way.

Even if it's not JT, 5 of these 6 spots can be filled internally, and the 6th can be filled in any number of ways to bring in an impact forward.

Maybe, instead of panicking, people can be patient and see where we are on September 20th, instead of worrying about how many ifs there are 3 months before Training Camp even begins.

 

[LeafFever]

This is a first round playoff team at best. Defense is atrocious. Lack of physicality is a killer in the postseason. Not to mention that Mike " First Round Knockout" Babcock gets outcoached consistently.

3 finals appearances.
"At Best". LOL. You think they'll miss the playoffs? Have you seen the NHL? The Leafs had more talent than both finals teams.

 

[Hockeyholic]

3 finals appearances.
"At Best". LOL. You think they'll miss the playoffs? Have you seen the NHL?

Yepp. Last finals appearance was in 2009. Last series win was 2013, before his team blew a 3-1 series lead to the Hawks. Then he got bounced in five by the Bruins. Had a 2-1 series lead over TB, and two goal lead late in game 4 before the Wings blew it. Then they won game 5, before getting smoked the next two games.

2016: Missed postseason.

2017: Had 2-1 series lead over Caps. Proceed to lose three straight.

2018: Outcoached in game 7. Inability to switch lines.

I've never seen a guy live on the past as much as he does. He's a good coach. But he's not something special.

 

[Paladin2799]

LOL how is there 11 pages on this topic?

4 of the players are 11-13 forwards or 6-7 D. None of those guys are worth worrying about losing.

Bozak is a heavily sheltered C who is good on the draw, and can score when put in a favourable position, but ultimately replaceable.

JVR is the only player of significant value, and that value drops a LOT when he signs his next contract. He is a single-faceted player, who, when not scoring, is not helping the team in any purposeful way.

Even if it's not JT, 5 of these 6 spots can be filled internally, and the 6th can be filled in any number of ways to bring in an impact forward.

Maybe, instead of panicking, people can be patient and see where we are on September 20th, instead of worrying about how many ifs there are 3 months before Training Camp even begins.

Completely agree. Every single word.

JVR is a quality player, but a ton of his value was from his contract balancing his defensive woes. He won't be as good a value when he gets his new contract.

Fill the team with young fast players, either sign JT or sign quality depth to fill the team.

 

[Paladin2799]

Yepp. Last finals appearance was in 2009. Last series win was 2013, before his team blew a 3-1 series lead to the Hawks. Then he got bounced in five by the Bruins. Had a 2-1 series lead over TB, and two goal lead late in game 4 before the Wings blew it. Then they won game 5, before getting smoked the next two games.

2016: Missed postseason.

2017: Had 2-1 series lead over Caps. Proceed to lose three straight.

2018: Outcoached in game 7. Inability to switch lines.

I've never seen a guy live on the past as much as he does. He's a good coach. But he's not something special.

Did you ever think that maybe player development and minute/situation limitations for young players might have something to do with it?

He clearly has a different focus, more long term, then he did in detroit.

 

[ottomaddox]

Why are you assuming the Leafs can't finish higher than 3rd? I do not agree at all. Divisions never just stay the same year after year.
And I am on record as picking Florida to win the division prior to this trade.

No.

I am saying that Dubas will have to have a hell of an offseason (draft, July 1st, and trades) in order to be 3rd.

Do I have to copy and paste the OP?

 

[ottomaddox]

LOL how is there 11 pages on this topic?

4 of the players are 11-13 forwards or 6-7 D. None of those guys are worth worrying about losing.

Bozak is a heavily sheltered C who is good on the draw, and can score when put in a favourable position, but ultimately replaceable.

JVR is the only player of significant value, and that value drops a LOT when he signs his next contract. He is a single-faceted player, who, when not scoring, is not helping the team in any purposeful way.

Even if it's not JT, 5 of these 6 spots can be filled internally, and the 6th can be filled in any number of ways to bring in an impact forward.

Maybe, instead of panicking, people can be patient and see where we are on September 20th, instead of worrying about how many ifs there are 3 months before Training Camp even begins.

No.

I *couldn't care less about who we are losing. Their success doesn't hinge on re-signing JVR, Bozak, Moore, Plekanec, Komarov, and Polak.

I hope that Dubas isn't relying on graduating Marlies.

He needs to kick arse in trades, UFAs and drafting.

 

[Silver91]

No.

I am saying that Dubas will have to have a hell of an offseason (draft, July 1st, and trades) in order to be 3rd.

Do I have to copy and paste the OP?

Every. Team. Has. Question Marks.

Do you think Florida isn't worried about their team, even now with Hoffman? Luongo is aging, and Reimer is a flip of a coin every time he goes into the net. Their D is piss poor too, and there's no knowing if everything is going to click for them either.

The Bruins have one line and an ancient behemoth that may or may not maintain his ability to be decent.

You're literally spewing nonsense, saying that the Leafs have a ton of questions, as if nobody else does.

Completely agree. Every single word.

JVR is a quality player, but a ton of his value was from his contract balancing his defensive woes. He won't be as good a value when he gets his new contract.

Fill the team with young fast players, either sign JT or sign quality depth to fill the team.

Exactly. Even if it's not JT. I can see Dubas going after a 2nd line center via trade, as having quality depth is key, and we are one of few teams with the ability to fit that kind of depth.

 

[Silver91]

No.

I could care less about who we are losing. Their success doesn't hinge on re-signing JVR, Bozak, Moore, Plekanec, Komarov, and Polak.

I hope that Dubas isn't relying on graduating Marlies.

He needs to kick arse in trades, UFAs and drafting.

Graduating Marlies is literally the optimal way to fill in the edges of a roster. Do you want a bunch of Matt Martins and Leo Komarovs on the 3rd/4th line? All that does is take away from potentially bringing in higher skilled players.

Yes, he needs to do something through trades/FA, but drafting will have no impact on the upcoming season, and likely not a significant one for 3-5 seasons. And even then, where do you think those kids will go once drafted? The Marlies.

If you think graduating Marlies is a bad idea, I don't know what to say, other than look at Tampa's roster and see how many of their players are AHL grads from their own farm team. It's how you build a successful program.

 

[ottomaddox]

Every. Team. Has. Question Marks.

Do you think Florida isn't worried about their team, even now with Hoffman? Luongo is aging, and Reimer is a flip of a coin every time he goes into the net. Their D is piss poor too, and there's no knowing if everything is going to click for them either.

The Bruins have one line and an ancient behemoth that may or may not maintain his ability to be decent.

You're literally spewing nonsense, saying that the Leafs have a ton of questions, as if nobody else does.



Exactly. Even if it's not JT. I can see Dubas going after a 2nd line center via trade, as having quality depth is key, and we are one of few teams with the ability to fit that kind of depth.

No. Every other team in the Atlantic has their warts.

I am not spewing nonsense. Part of point is that a lot of fans are falling back on ifs (see the OP) as next year's plan.

Let's revisit this after the draft and July 1st. If Dubas makes some moves then I'll be satisfied. I'll be damned that I'll be comfortable with: if Nylander plays center, if 4 Marlies can step in, if our elite prospects take a step, etc.

 

[ottomaddox]

Graduating Marlies is literally the optimal way to fill in the edges of a roster. Do you want a bunch of Matt Martins and Leo Komarovs on the 3rd/4th line? All that does is take away from potentially bringing in higher skilled players.

Yes, he needs to do something through trades/FA, but drafting will have no impact on the upcoming season, and likely not a significant one for 3-5 seasons. And even then, where do you think those kids will go once drafted? The Marlies.

If you think graduating Marlies is a bad idea, I don't know what to say, other than look at Tampa's roster and see how many of their players are AHL grads from their own farm team. It's how you build a successful program.

Again with the extremes and idealism.

No. In no post did I type "re-sign Komarov! play Matt Martin!".

 

[Liminality]

No. Every other team in the Atlantic has their warts.

I am not spewing nonsense. Part of point is that a lot of fans are falling back on ifs (see the OP) as next year's plan.

Let's revisit this after the draft and July 1st. If Dubas makes some moves then I'll be satisfied. I'll be damned that I'll be comfortable with: if Nylander plays center, if 4 Marlies can step in, if our elite prospects take a step, etc.

Most teams have to fall back on ifs, not just the Leafs.

I hope Dubas doesn't make a impatient move just to satisfy fans.

 

[ottomaddox]

Most teams have to fall back on ifs, not just the Leafs.

I hope Dubas doesn't make a impatient move just to satisfy fans.

Me too, but Shanny expects to be back in the playoff hunt.

 

[LeafFever]

No.

I am saying that Dubas will have to have a hell of an offseason (draft, July 1st, and trades) in order to be 3rd.

Do I have to copy and paste the OP?

So they won't make the playoffs? Are we looking at the same roster?

 

[ottomaddox]

So they won't make the playoffs? Are we looking at the same roster?

Are we looking at other Atlantic Division teams?

Are we even considering how to replace 6 UFAs? Are we considering any improvemments on the defense? What about all the soft players TOR currently has?

 

[LeafFever]

Are we looking at other Atlantic Division teams?

Are we even considering how to replace 6 UFAs? Are we considering any improvemments on the defense? What about all the soft players TOR currently has?

Other teams have UFAs. why are you concerned about Leo Komorov?
One of the replacements just got named playoff MVP in the Marlies Calder Cup win.
I feel the "Flaws" of the Leafs are vastly inflated next to other teams. Every team has "Concerns".
Are Matthews/Marner/Nylander leaving?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Are we looking at other Atlantic Division teams?

Are we even considering how to replace 6 UFAs? Are we considering any improvemments on the defense? What about all the soft players TOR currently has?

You never know what unexpected developments might occur and for that reason, I'd be reluctant to put our chances of making the playoffs at higher than 90% as of today. I don't think there are many teams with a higher number though so I haven't a clue why you're worried.

 

[LeafFever]

I don't think people realize how good our top 3 young forwards will be. Only 22 and under. I really don't expect the same production out of them at all.