Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo

Off Sides

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Sep 8, 2008
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I think PB has a good point, if the team has a lead, and they have to choose from Shattenkirk, ADA, and Smith who to put out there to try to hold that lead when the other teams best players jump over the boards, they are all pretty poor options. Yet I also think it's possible ADA turns into something more reliable than he currently is.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,228
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New York
So they are not both right side puck moving mobile defenseman with tons of offense I’ve upside? Shoot I’m sorry

You know who's also mobile and moves the puck? Drew Doughty, Victor Hedman, etc.

DeAngelo and Shattenkirk are purely offensive guys. Lets not act like they are all-situation defensemen who can be put in any role, they can't. When you have 2 of your 3 who need to be sheltered, its hard to work around.

I have 0 problem with either in the lineup, the problem is that putting both in the same 6 man defensive lineup is tough work for the coach in deployment, and especially tough work for the 3rd defenseman on that side.
 

Inferno

Registered User
Nov 27, 2005
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There are roughly 60 faceoffs per game...with the split being surprisingly evenly distributed between the offensive, defensive and neutral zone.

Kevin Shattenkirk starts roughly a third of his shifts in the defensive zone.
Denagelo is roughly the same.

so lets assume theres 20 defensive zone faceoffs in a game. Let's also assume that say...10 of those are taken with either Deangelo or Shattenkirk on the ice (i cant find an exact number here for how many shifts per game start in which zones..maybe someone can do the math for me)

The Rangers win roughly 50% of their faceoffs...so literally 5 times a game, someone else will need to be on the ice, for a defensive zone situation, that may or may not result in a scoring chance against.

It's not even the smallest bit of a concern to me.

Penalty killing? Shattenkirk killed penalties with the blues..he'd average 1:30 to 2:00 sh per game....so he CAN do it...effectively? i dunno, ive just looked at the stats...and PK is such a goalie and systems thing that its hard to say...
 

Anttiup32

Registered User
Jan 29, 2018
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There are roughly 60 faceoffs per game...with the split being surprisingly evenly distributed between the offensive, defensive and neutral zone.

Kevin Shattenkirk starts roughly a third of his shifts in the defensive zone.
Denagelo is roughly the same.

so lets assume theres 20 defensive zone faceoffs in a game. Let's also assume that say...10 of those are taken with either Deangelo or Shattenkirk on the ice (i cant find an exact number here for how many shifts per game start in which zones..maybe someone can do the math for me)

The Rangers win roughly 50% of their faceoffs...so literally 5 times a game, someone else will need to be on the ice, for a defensive zone situation, that may or may not result in a scoring chance against.

It's not even the smallest bit of a concern to me.

Penalty killing? Shattenkirk killed penalties with the blues..he'd average 1:30 to 2:00 sh per game....so he CAN do it...effectively? i dunno, ive just looked at the stats...and PK is such a goalie and systems thing that its hard to say...

Anyone know if DeAngelo got a chance on the penalty kill in Hartford? He’s actually been really good clearing the front of the net...something our penalty killers don’t do well.
 

The Crypto Guy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2017
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Thats not my point.

I'm not talking about having a spot available among the 6, I'm talking about deployment. Shattenkirk and DeAngelo play the same role. Is there room for two of the same role on one side?
Sure there is. Whats the problem with having 2 right handed offensive dmen? Just play them on different pairings. Most teams would love to have this problem.
 
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gorangers0525

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Dec 15, 2014
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While zone starts are next to meaningless, wouldnt it be smart to have players that can move the puck start in the defensive zone often? I mean, even bad faceoff teams win close to 50%, and once you get that win a quick transition is probably the best thing you can do.

The idea that only “defensive minded” players should only start in the d-zone doesnt make sense to me, especially since “defensive minded” often means “can’t pass”. However, I do agree we may want a less agressive player on the right side, but it doesn’t really matter with AV’s joke of a system.
 

Vinny DeAngelo

Jimmy Easy to defend
Mar 17, 2014
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Its not just two offensive defenseman. You'd want two on your team, but different sides. They both play the same side, thats the main key here. Its no problem if they play different sides.

And these aren't EK or OEL type of offensive defensemen who can also play a defensive role, these are purely offensive players. You can't put them out on the PK or try to deploy them with a neutral role. Its not going to work. Having two heavily sheltered defenseman on the same side is hard to work around.
In this past stretch ADA has been a better defender than smith staal and Holden... only question is if the coach will trust him or will his offensive label hold him back
 
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Miamipuck

Al Swearengen
Dec 29, 2009
7,411
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Take a Wild Guess
Funny thing is I think shatty is fine in his own zone during sustained plays...what he sucks at is defending the rush.

Defensive zone starts by definition would play to his strengths as a defenseman and guard against his weaknesses.

I am hesitant to guess a dman that would be at good defending the rush in AV's system. The 1 player the Rangers had that was really good against the rush and preventing zone entries was here only a year with AV. It wouldn't surprise me that AV was part and parcel to letting him go because he loves the Chinese fire drill in the defensive zone.

My god I wish for a conventional defensive system or this team. We have gone from the 6 goalie system to this crap. Can we just have something in between? The Rangers have a few players that can actually move the puck now, how about allowing them too. Skating around all over the defensive zone chasing your man doesn't allow the players an easy way to get the out. They're always reacting instead of moving into lanes, stepping up and getting the puck out in a sustainable easy to replicate way.
 
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haveandare

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
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You know who's also mobile and moves the puck? Drew Doughty, Victor Hedman, etc.

DeAngelo and Shattenkirk are purely offensive guys. Lets not act like they are all-situation defensemen who can be put in any role, they can't. When you have 2 of your 3 who need to be sheltered, its hard to work around.

I have 0 problem with either in the lineup, the problem is that putting both in the same 6 man defensive lineup is tough work for the coach in deployment, and especially tough work for the 3rd defenseman on that side.
Imo the fact that they're both righty makes it a lot less of a problem - finding left handed guys who can simply be passable and not hold back someone like either of them isn't all that difficult as far as finding certain types of players go.

Also I don't think Shattenkirk is bad in his own zone, he's mostly bad off the rush. I think he could handle d-zone starts alright, and his breakout passing would be helpful in those situations. Hard to say what Tony D is yet, but he's been more solid on the d side of things recently.
 

Levitate

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Jul 29, 2004
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Shattenkirk seems to overplay guys off the rush for some reason. He'll get way too aggressive and get burned, or I guess sometimes then worry about being too aggressive and play it too soft. Just not terribly great and staying calm and holding the right position.

e: I'd love to see DeAngelo in the lineup full time at this point but until the Rangers actually sell and "tank" the rest of the season I don't see this coaching staff doing it
 

Anttiup32

Registered User
Jan 29, 2018
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Shattenkirk seems to overplay guys off the rush for some reason. He'll get way too aggressive and get burned, or I guess sometimes then worry about being too aggressive and play it too soft. Just not terribly great and staying calm and holding the right position.

e: I'd love to see DeAngelo in the lineup full time at this point but until the Rangers actually sell and "tank" the rest of the season I don't see this coaching staff doing it
I think Tony’s spot is safe. I don’t see him coming out of the lineup. He’ll provably run PP2 and play 15-17 minutes a night the rest of the way.
 

Levitate

Registered User
Jul 29, 2004
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I think Tony’s spot is safe. I don’t see him coming out of the lineup. He’ll provably run PP2 and play 15-17 minutes a night the rest of the way.

Oh yeah I guess he's not really sent down. I keep thinking that he's back in Hartford.
 

Anttiup32

Registered User
Jan 29, 2018
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McDonagh - Shattenkirk
Skjei - DeAngelo
Staal - Smith

These are obvious pairings
And pls get rid of Holden
I don’t think Skjei-DeAngelo makes a ton of sense tbh. Both move the puck and skate really well but neither is really a shutdown defender. Mac honestly played his best with DeAngelo as his partner. Also minutes are what DeAngelo needs to develop and Shatty probably won’t be at full strength when he returns.

I would just go
27-77
76-42
18-22
 

Anttiup32

Registered User
Jan 29, 2018
85
50
I think Tony’s spot is safe. I don’t see him coming out of the lineup. He’ll provably run PP2 and play 15-17 minutes a night the rest of the way.
Yea he didn’t report to Hartford over the weekend so I think it was just a paper move. I’d expect him back at practice this afternoon
 
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DanielBrassard

It's all so tiresome
May 6, 2014
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I really don't think having both Shattenkirk and DeAngelo on defense is going to be an issue. It's not like the defense can be any worse than it has been.
 

darko

Registered User
Feb 16, 2009
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I think PB has a good point, if the team has a lead, and they have to choose from Shattenkirk, ADA, and Smith who to put out there to try to hold that lead when the other teams best players jump over the boards, they are all pretty poor options. Yet I also think it's possible ADA turns into something more reliable than he currently is.

Agree on your last sentence. ADA may be looked at as an offensive d-man right now but that stint at Hartford made him better defensively than he was at the start of the season. Bit more time of fine tuning and no reason he can't be reliable in his own end.
 
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Krams

Registered User
Feb 13, 2012
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I don't buy the notion that Shattenkirk makes DeAngelo redundant. We certainly don't have a glut of puck moving defensemen with offensive instinct... what's the alternative, DeAngelo sits for Holden/Smith?
 

TheTakedown

Puck is Life
Jul 11, 2012
13,689
1,480
There are roughly 60 faceoffs per game...with the split being surprisingly evenly distributed between the offensive, defensive and neutral zone.

Kevin Shattenkirk starts roughly a third of his shifts in the defensive zone.
Denagelo is roughly the same.

so lets assume theres 20 defensive zone faceoffs in a game. Let's also assume that say...10 of those are taken with either Deangelo or Shattenkirk on the ice (i cant find an exact number here for how many shifts per game start in which zones..maybe someone can do the math for me)

The Rangers win roughly 50% of their faceoffs...so literally 5 times a game, someone else will need to be on the ice, for a defensive zone situation, that may or may not result in a scoring chance against.

It's not even the smallest bit of a concern to me.

Penalty killing? Shattenkirk killed penalties with the blues..he'd average 1:30 to 2:00 sh per game....so he CAN do it...effectively? i dunno, ive just looked at the stats...and PK is such a goalie and systems thing that its hard to say...

On top of that zone starts account for a very small percentage of scoring chances against. Someone did the math here, I think like only 8 out of 1000 faceoffs end up having to do with a scoring chance against?
 

Levitate

Registered User
Jul 29, 2004
30,948
7,655
He could stand to shoot a bit more but a lot of that could come with confidence and growth. He also seems to like to try to change the shot, make defenders move out of the way, etc, which will Pejorative Slur his shot totals for better or worse...
 

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