Speculation: Tomas Kaberle eyeing return to the NHL

Hockey Sports Fan

Registered Loser
Sponsor
Jun 30, 2010
10,455
3,872
Connecticut
He kept getting bounced around was never placed in a situation to succeed. Boston left him to hang the same way they did to Jagr. Did anyone think Jagr had anything left in the tank when the Devils signed him? What's to say that won't happen to Kaberle?

Yes? His underlying numbers in Boston (and Dallas and Philly for that matter) were sterling. They looked worse because he and Seguin had a substantially low on-ice shooting% in the playoffs, which very likely wasn't an indicator of either player's true talent. I can't say I expected him to play so many games, but his play wasn't really much different from his two prior seasons. He just got more games and more minutes with New Jersey.

On that note, I still find it absolutely HILARIOUS that Boston traded away what is likely to be a top-5 center going forward because of a down season/playoffs and some partying. Choosing Krejci long-term over Seguin is just absolutely mind-boggling to me.

And on the Kaberle note, how was he hung out to dry in Boston? They played him with Seidenberg and he sucked, they played him with McQuaid and he sucked. He still played around a 30-point pace, but he was trash in his own end.
 

livewell68

Registered User
Jul 20, 2007
8,680
52
Yes? His underlying numbers in Boston (and Dallas and Philly for that matter) were sterling. They looked worse because he and Seguin had a substantially low on-ice shooting% in the playoffs, which very likely wasn't an indicator of either player's true talent. I can't say I expected him to play so many games, but his play wasn't really much different from his two prior seasons. He just got more games and more minutes with New Jersey.

On that note, I still find it absolutely HILARIOUS that Boston traded away what is likely to be a top-5 center going forward because of a down season/playoffs and some partying. Choosing Krejci long-term over Seguin is just absolutely mind-boggling to me.

And on the Kaberle note, how was he hung out to dry in Boston? They played him with Seidenberg and he sucked, they played him with McQuaid and he sucked. He still played around a 30-point pace, but he was trash in his own end.

Jagr's possession numbers were good in Boston and Dallas simply because he's Jagr, not because those teams put him in the best position to succeed. Dallas decided that Jagr was best suited to play on the 3rd line and he barely ever played with Jamie Benn. Jagr's scoring numbers were better on the powerplay than they were at evenstrength while the Stars.

In Boston it was even worse, he was playing with a bunch of players who were barely good enough to be on the 4th line, let alone share icetime with Jagr. Many Jagr fans and even Boston fans felt it was only natural to pair Jagr with Krejci and Lucic but it never happened. Instead for pretty much the whole 12 games he played during the regular season, he was playing on the 3rd line. Then he got sick (had the worst bout of the flu of his career as he put it) and when he came back in time for the playoffs, he was never fully recovered and he continued to play on the 3rd line where his playmaking abilities and his space creating abilities were being wasted. Of course in game 7 of their series against the Leafs, Boston decided to put Jagr on the 2nd line and only because Seguin was struggling at that point and they wanted to shake things up. Jagr had no chemistry with Bergeron and Marchand and having to develop chemistry during the playoffs in the second round doesn't work well does it? Is it even enough time?

The Devils had enough faith in Jagr to sign him in 2013-14 when almost everyone thought he was washed up and done, and he rewarded them by leading the offensively starved team in scoring. Confidence can go a long way for certain players.

The Bruins play the game a certain way, Kaberle and Jagr play it a different way. They play a puck possession game based on slowing the game down, playing keep away. Kaberle was a very good skater in his prime and he's a better skater than Jagr is at this point in his career, so if Jagr could still succeed despite being slow, then why shouldn't we give Kaberle the same benefit of doubt?

Being surrounded by his Czech friends including hometown friend Jagr might make him feel comfortable and we might see Kaberle have some sort of rejuvenation. After all, hockey is 80% cerebral and only 20% physical. I think a lot of Kaberle's regression the last few years can be attributed to him losing confidence in himself. Having Jagr around might be the remedy that the doctor prescribed.

Jagr rejuvenated Straka's career in New York, why not give Kaberle the same chance here?
 
Last edited:

NC107*

Guest
Jagr's possession numbers were good in Boston and Dallas simply because he's Jagr, not because those teams put him in the best position to succeed. Dallas decided that Jagr was best suited to play on the 3rd line and he barely ever played with Jamie Benn. Jagr's scoring numbers were better on the powerplay than they were at evenstrength while the Stars.

In Boston it was even worse, he was playing with a bunch of players who were barely good enough to be on the 4th line, let alone share icetime with Jagr. Many Jagr fans and even Boston fans felt it was only natural to pair Jagr with Krejci and Lucic but it never happened. Instead for pretty much the whole 12 games he played during the regular season, he was playing on the 3rd line. Then he got sick (had the worst bout of the flu of his career as he put it) and when he came back in time for the playoffs, he was never fully recovered and he continued to play on the 3rd line where his playmaking abilities and his space creating abilities were being wasted. Of course in game 7, Boston decided to put Jagr on the 2nd line and only because Seguin was struggling at that point and they wanted to shake things up. Jagr had no chemistry with Bergeron and Marchand and having to develop chemistry during the playoffs in the second round doesn't work well does it? Is it even enough time?

The Devils had enough faith in Jagr to sign him in 2013-14 when almost everyone thought he was washed up and done, and he rewarded them by leading the offensively starved team in scoring. Confidence can go a long way for certain players.

The Bruins play the game a certain way, Kaberle and Jagr play it a different way. They play a puck possession game based on slowing the game down, playing keep away. Kaberle was a very good skater in his prime and he's a better skater than Jagr is at this point in his career, so if Jagr could still succeed despite being slow, then why shouldn't we give Kaberle the same benefit of doubt?

Being surrounded by his Czech friends including hometown friend Jagr might make him feel comfortable and we might see Kaberle have some sort of rejuvenation. After all, hockey is 80% cerebral and only 20% physical. I think a lot of Kaberle's regression the last few years can be attributed to him losing confidence in himself. Having Jagr around might be the remedy that the doctor prescribed.

Jagr rejuvenated Straka's career in New York, why not give Kaberle the same chance here?

Nice evaluation, I would like to see Kaberle get to prove the point you made in the last paragraph. IMO Gelinas isn't the answer and a bigger risk.This holdout by Gelinas is a big mistake IMO. It's time to move on from Gelinas he didn't earn the right to do what he is doing.
 

devilsblood

Registered User
Mar 10, 2010
29,455
11,711
Maybe Jagr does help Kaberle in the mental department.

But:

" Kaberle and Jagr play it a different way. They play a puck possession game based on slowing the game down, playing keep away. Kaberle was a very good skater in his prime and he's a better skater than Jagr is at this point in his career, so if Jagr could still succeed despite being slow, then why shouldn't we give Kaberle the same benefit of doubt?"

I really don't think Jagr's style, which I agree has aged quite well, would work as a defender. Not to mention that Jagr was successful in the league the year b4 we signed him. And we have seen first hand the detriments of the slow footed defensmen in recent years. In general I think we need to stay away from the "Jagr did it, thus (insert player here) can do it".
 

livewell68

Registered User
Jul 20, 2007
8,680
52
Maybe Jagr does help Kaberle in the mental department.

But:

" Kaberle and Jagr play it a different way. They play a puck possession game based on slowing the game down, playing keep away. Kaberle was a very good skater in his prime and he's a better skater than Jagr is at this point in his career, so if Jagr could still succeed despite being slow, then why shouldn't we give Kaberle the same benefit of doubt?"

I really don't think Jagr's style, which I agree has aged quite well, would work as a defender. Not to mention that Jagr was successful in the league the year b4 we signed him. And we have seen first hand the detriments of the slow footed defensmen in recent years. In general I think we need to stay away from the "Jagr did it, thus (insert player here) can do it".

Kaberle is still a very good skater and I saw him skate pretty well at the past World Olympics.

He might not be what he once was in terms of skating but his game is no worse than Zidlicky at this point in his career and he's also pretty good at passing the puck so he could be an asset on the powerplay and he won't be a liability at 5-on-5 despite what some posters think.
 

NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
67,116
31,150
Honestly though what use does Severson have for this year's team unless Gelinas is traded/holds out? If Severson's making the team he's making it to play everyday, and I really can't see any lineup that has him AND Larsson/Merrill/Gelinas in it. Not this year anyway. Severson's not going to punt Greene/Zid out of the lineup and as much as people may hem and haw he isn't getting the captain exiled either. Not when there's a tremendous amount of youth in the d-core as is.

Kaberle doesn't have to play everyday to get a spot on the roster, though I really can't see them dumping Harrold for Kab.
 

The 29th Pick

Still Alive !
Dec 7, 2007
19,425
6,632
Northvale N.J.
Kaberle doesn't have to play everyday to get a spot on the roster, though I really can't see them dumping Harrold for Kab.

yeah if there's one thing I like about Harrold its his ability to jump into action at any time, even after prolonged sitting.
I'm not sure Kaberle could (or would want to) do that
 

JerryGigantic

Old Skool
Jul 17, 2006
6,720
46
New York
it worked - I made him surface to reply. :laugh:

These are dark, dull days until September 19th. But yeah, take a crack at my boy Motts and I will surface to lay the wood.

Although I am always excited about the upcoming season, I think this is an excellent group Lou has assembled. And all the pieces aren't in place just yet.

But this feels like a playoff team without any doubt.
 

hidek91

Registered User
Jan 13, 2014
1,811
1,459
Warsaw, PL
While I'm not denying that Kaberle may catch second wind (like Jagr did), I don't see how could it work - there's only one d-man who can be moved to AHL w/o waivers and it's Jon Merrill, who was most trusted young d-man last season so I can't see it happening. Dumping Salvador isn't the best idea because while we all know how he plays :D, we can't have 3 purely offensive d-men at the same time and Harrold is actually very good 7th d-man so I'd rather keep Harrold.

There is of course possibility of injuries etc. but it would be another logjam saga...
 

livewell68

Registered User
Jul 20, 2007
8,680
52
While I'm not denying that Kaberle may catch second wind (like Jagr did), I don't see how could it work - there's only one d-man who can be moved to AHL w/o waivers and it's Jon Merrill, who was most trusted young d-man last season so I can't see it happening. Dumping Salvador isn't the best idea because while we all know how he plays :D, we can't have 3 purely offensive d-men at the same time and Harrold is actually very good 7th d-man so I'd rather keep Harrold.

There is of course possibility of injuries etc. but it would be another logjam saga...

Why not?

The Devils' biggest issue was the lack of goals in 2013-14 and their overall team defense is pretty good and with more games from Schneider, they should be about the same defensively. If scoring more goals means more wins, why not go for it?

If they get off to a hot start and carry the momentum into the trade deadline then maybe Lou goes and gets a steady stay home defender at the break and we ride the momentum into the playoffs.
 

rrekaj13

Registered User
Jun 15, 2012
965
106
New Jersey
Why not?

The Devils' biggest issue was the lack of goals in 2013-14 and their overall team defense is pretty good and with more games from Schneider, they should be about the same defensively. If scoring more goals means more wins, why not go for it?

If they get off to a hot start and carry the momentum into the trade deadline then maybe Lou goes and gets a steady stay home defender at the break and we ride the momentum into the playoffs.

The Devils wouldn't go in that direction because its the Devils. Lou & Pete put veteran stability and two-way play above all else because its safe. Gelinas is already enough of a defensive liability, so adding Kaberle would only make Pete even more nervous. Would he help spark some goals? Probably, and I'm also sure his defensive liabilities are probably overstated, but as it is he is sort of redundant unless they don't want Gelinas in as a regular.

We also lost Fayne which adds to the loss of stability Pete craves on D.
 

Bleedred

Travis Green BLOWS! Bring back Nasreddine!
Sponsor
May 1, 2011
128,938
55,941
Ugh still hope we don't sign him, unless someone is out with a long term injury. Am interested in signing Gomez though, if it helps push some of the junk out of the lineup or off the roster completely.
 

Bleedred

Travis Green BLOWS! Bring back Nasreddine!
Sponsor
May 1, 2011
128,938
55,941
Honestly though what use does Severson have for this year's team unless Gelinas is traded/holds out? If Severson's making the team he's making it to play everyday, and I really can't see any lineup that has him AND Larsson/Merrill/Gelinas in it. Not this year anyway. Severson's not going to punt Greene/Zid out of the lineup and as much as people may hem and haw he isn't getting the captain exiled either. Not when there's a tremendous amount of youth in the d-core as is.

Kaberle doesn't have to play everyday to get a spot on the roster, though I really can't see them dumping Harrold for Kab.

If Kaberle gets that ****in stiff Petey Jr off the roster, by all means please sign him. If it means never having to see that goofball get a second of PP ice time again, I'll lace Kabs skates up for him.

If not though, I don't see where the hell he fits. I smell a fake and made up injury coming.
 

devilsblood

Registered User
Mar 10, 2010
29,455
11,711
If Kaberle gets that ****in stiff Petey Jr off the roster, by all means please sign him. If it means never having to see that goofball get a second of PP ice time again, I'll lace Kabs skates up for him.

If not though, I don't see where the hell he fits. I smell a fake and made up injury coming.

Harrold is not that bad. Perfect 7th man really. Not sure where Kaberle's skill level is currently, but Im not sure he is a better option even as a bottom pairing guy over Harrold.

I think some guys pour the hate on Harrold because he has gotten minutes over Larsson and Gelinas. And most prefer the younger guys even if it is not the best "at the moment" move, but I think Harrold has shown himself as a decent all around player. An Andy Greene lite, type of guy.
 

CerebralGenesis

Registered User
Jul 23, 2009
24,429
2
Signing Kaberle means another over 35 contract, going with Severson means flexibility on top of the fact that he has good potential. I think playing in the AHL would help Severson but business wise, it makes sense to go with Severson.

But what do I know.

Who cares if it's just a one year deal for not a lot of money?
 

Hockey Sports Fan

Registered Loser
Sponsor
Jun 30, 2010
10,455
3,872
Connecticut
Harrold is not that bad. Perfect 7th man really. Not sure where Kaberle's skill level is currently, but Im not sure he is a better option even as a bottom pairing guy over Harrold.

I think some guys pour the hate on Harrold because he has gotten minutes over Larsson and Gelinas. And most prefer the younger guys even if it is not the best "at the moment" move, but I think Harrold has shown himself as a decent all around player. An Andy Greene lite, type of guy.

Harrold IS bad. That's why he's a 7th defenseman. He's a great 7th defenseman because he's a known quantity and his development is irrelevant at this point. No one complains if Harrold spends 6 of every 7 games (or weeks) in the pressbox. Can't do that with any of the kids.
 

devilsblood

Registered User
Mar 10, 2010
29,455
11,711
Harrold IS bad. That's why he's a 7th defenseman. He's a great 7th defenseman because he's a known quantity and his development is irrelevant at this point. No one complains if Harrold spends 6 of every 7 games (or weeks) in the pressbox. Can't do that with any of the kids.

He has played well enough whenever he has been given an oppurtunity. Including our playoff run. Now I agree I don't care in the least if he goes 20 games sitting in the press box, but that has more to do with our desire to play the young guys then it does Harrold's level of play.

And as an extension of my original notion, the hate on Harrold also has to do with him getting PP time, which should not happen. So like with more then a few guys on this team, it's not his play per se, it's the overuse, or the use in certain situations, that is the problem.

But if we went into a season with Harrold as a #6, and we had the Greene and the young guys also in the lineup? I'd have no issue.
 

Hockey Sports Fan

Registered Loser
Sponsor
Jun 30, 2010
10,455
3,872
Connecticut
Jagr's possession numbers were good in Boston and Dallas simply because he's Jagr, not because those teams put him in the best position to succeed. Dallas decided that Jagr was best suited to play on the 3rd line and he barely ever played with Jamie Benn. Jagr's scoring numbers were better on the powerplay than they were at evenstrength while the Stars.

In Boston it was even worse, he was playing with a bunch of players who were barely good enough to be on the 4th line, let alone share icetime with Jagr. Many Jagr fans and even Boston fans felt it was only natural to pair Jagr with Krejci and Lucic but it never happened. Instead for pretty much the whole 12 games he played during the regular season, he was playing on the 3rd line. Then he got sick (had the worst bout of the flu of his career as he put it) and when he came back in time for the playoffs, he was never fully recovered and he continued to play on the 3rd line where his playmaking abilities and his space creating abilities were being wasted. Of course in game 7 of their series against the Leafs, Boston decided to put Jagr on the 2nd line and only because Seguin was struggling at that point and they wanted to shake things up. Jagr had no chemistry with Bergeron and Marchand and having to develop chemistry during the playoffs in the second round doesn't work well does it? Is it even enough time?

The Devils had enough faith in Jagr to sign him in 2013-14 when almost everyone thought he was washed up and done, and he rewarded them by leading the offensively starved team in scoring. Confidence can go a long way for certain players.

The Bruins play the game a certain way, Kaberle and Jagr play it a different way. They play a puck possession game based on slowing the game down, playing keep away. Kaberle was a very good skater in his prime and he's a better skater than Jagr is at this point in his career, so if Jagr could still succeed despite being slow, then why shouldn't we give Kaberle the same benefit of doubt?

Being surrounded by his Czech friends including hometown friend Jagr might make him feel comfortable and we might see Kaberle have some sort of rejuvenation. After all, hockey is 80% cerebral and only 20% physical. I think a lot of Kaberle's regression the last few years can be attributed to him losing confidence in himself. Having Jagr around might be the remedy that the doctor prescribed.

I don't know where to start with this. You say Jagr's numbers were good because he's Jagr, not because the teams put him in a position to succeed. So? You asked if anyone could have expected Jagr to play like he did in NJ after what he did in Boston. You saying his performance is his doing, and not his coaches and linemates or whatever, is kinda just proving my point. So I'm not sure where you're going with that.

Then there's "Jagr's numbers were better on the powerplay than at even-strength." I mean....duh, right? What in the world is that supposed to prove? And what numbers are you even talking about? Possession? Scoring rates? Points?

You can say all you want about his time in Boston, but the fact is that he was killing it, regardless of what situation he was put in. He and Bergeron and Marchand completely dominated the puck as a line, and went through a bad slump where they couldn't put the puck in the net. It happens. Anyone who thought he was "washed up" after that series or season wasn't paying attention.

Jagr rejuvenated Straka's career in New York, why not give Kaberle the same chance here?

Because, like I won't stop saying, Kaberle sucks. He's soft, he's slow, and he's garbage in his own end. This is where I truly don't understand the point you were trying to make. Jagr was used unfairly, according to you, but he thrived anyway. Kaberle was used unfairly and sucked. If he makes the team and is asked to play Deboer's system night in and night out, he's gonna be a scapegoat by November.
 

Hockey Sports Fan

Registered Loser
Sponsor
Jun 30, 2010
10,455
3,872
Connecticut
He has played well enough whenever he has been given an oppurtunity. Including our playoff run. Now I agree I don't care in the least if he goes 20 games sitting in the press box, but that has more to do with our desire to play the young guys then it does Harrold's level of play.

And as an extension of my original notion, the hate on Harrold also has to do with him getting PP time, which should not happen. So like with more then a few guys on this team, it's not his play per se, it's the overuse, or the use in certain situations, that is the problem.

But if we went into a season with Harrold as a #6, and we had the Greene and the young guys also in the lineup? I'd have no issue.

What in the world? This is Pete Deboer we're talking about here. If Harrold's play wasn't the problem, he'd have played.
 

livewell68

Registered User
Jul 20, 2007
8,680
52
I don't know where to start with this. You say Jagr's numbers were good because he's Jagr, not because the teams put him in a position to succeed. So? You asked if anyone could have expected Jagr to play like he did in NJ after what he did in Boston. You saying his performance is his doing, and not his coaches and linemates or whatever, is kinda just proving my point. So I'm not sure where you're going with that.

Then there's "Jagr's numbers were better on the powerplay than at even-strength." I mean....duh, right? What in the world is that supposed to prove? And what numbers are you even talking about? Possession? Scoring rates? Points?

You can say all you want about his time in Boston, but the fact is that he was killing it, regardless of what situation he was put in. He and Bergeron and Marchand completely dominated the puck as a line, and went through a bad slump where they couldn't put the puck in the net. It happens. Anyone who thought he was "washed up" after that series or season wasn't paying attention.



Because, like I won't stop saying, Kaberle sucks. He's soft, he's slow, and he's garbage in his own end. This is where I truly don't understand the point you were trying to make. Jagr was used unfairly, according to you, but he thrived anyway. Kaberle was used unfairly and sucked. If he makes the team and is asked to play Deboer's system night in and night out, he's gonna be a scapegoat by November.

What's the point of even responding to my well thought post if you're not really going to provide anything productive.

So Kaberle sucks, you've made your point clear the first time around. Some others feel Kaberle has something to prove so let it be, if he can prove he's still an NHL player then I don't see why the Devils organization shouldn't give him a look.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->