Value of: Toffoli to the Oilers

[ChaoticOrange]

EDM 2018 1st, Ethan Bear, Pontus Aberg


Toffoli, Paul Ladue

I don’t think Aberg is an Oiler either way come the draft because he pissed off the coaching staff, but if we’re balking at Bear why keep adding?

I just don’t see the value in bringing in LaDue. We have sooooo many bottom pairing guys he’d just add to the cluster f***.

Not to mention I’m pretty sure he needs waivers now, while we can bump Bear up and down as we need to.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I don’t think Aberg is an Oiler either way come the draft because he pissed off the coaching staff, but if we’re balking at Bear why keep adding?

I just don’t see the value in bringing in LaDue. We have sooooo many bottom pairing guys he’d just add to the cluster ****.

Not to mention I’m pretty sure he needs waivers now, while we can bump Bear up and down as we need to.

I think Ladue would be more valuble to to Oilers than Aberg. If we assume 2018 1st + Bear lands you Toffoli, i would swap Aberg for Ladue just because it gives you a RHD depth if I was the Oil. Don't think LA would though.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I don’t think Aberg is an Oiler either way come the draft because he pissed off the coaching staff, but if we’re balking at Bear why keep adding?

I just don’t see the value in bringing in LaDue. We have sooooo many bottom pairing guys he’d just add to the cluster ****.

Not to mention I’m pretty sure he needs waivers now, while we can bump Bear up and down as we need to.

LaDue is a top 4 defense man maybe higher. He playing top mins down in the ahl. He just need more nhl mins and on a team that has drew doughty hes not going to get them. Also Maritnez /or dion would take mins ahead of him. He scored one of the only goals in the playoffs on the pp something we need more help on, So i think ur very much underrating him

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I think Ladue would be more valuble to to Oilers than Aberg. If we assume 2018 1st + Bear lands you Toffoli, i would swap Aberg for Ladue just because it gives you a RHD depth if I was the Oil. Don't think LA would though.

I’m not convinced that Toffoli has that kind of value and if the kings insisted on Bear being added I would probably walk whether or not LaDue was included.

Toffoli would be a nice add, but he’s not a ‘we need this guy at all costs’ kind of add. Playoff no-show and two subpar seasons doesn’t scream ‘we need to overpay for this guy’ to me.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

LaDue is a top 4 defense man maybe higher. He playing top mins down in the ahl. He just need more nhl mins and on a team that has drew doughty hes not going to get them. Also Maritnez /or dion would take mins ahead of him. He scored one of the only goals in the playoffs on the pp something we need more help on, So i think ur very much underrating him

He’s not a top four defenceman at the NHL level until he proves it consistently. He’s gotten 60% offensive zone starts so far in the NHL and is playing 14 minutes a night.

That’s a guy that could maybe be a top four guy if the stars align but to say that he’s some guaranteed top four guy is dishonest and probably not fair to LaDue either.

A guy like Caleb Jones was playing top minutes in the AHL. William Lagesson and Patrik Berglund are playing top minutes in Sweden. We’re not about to anoint them as ‘top four NHL defencemen, maybe higher’ based on small sample sizes.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

He’s not a top four defenceman at the NHL level until he proves it consistently. He’s gotten 60% offensive zone starts so far in the NHL and is playing 14 minutes a night.

That’s a guy that could maybe be a top four guy if the stars align but to say that he’s some guaranteed top four guy is dishonest and probably not fair to LaDue either.

A guy like Caleb Jones was playing top minutes in the AHL. William Lagesson and Patrik Berglund are playing top minutes in Sweden. We’re not about to anoint them as ‘top four NHL defencemen, maybe higher’ based on small sample sizes.

I agree he needs to play more mins and show what he can do but ur trying to call him only a bottom pairing player which he is not He is just playing bottom pair on a team with a deep right side there is a huge difference. LaDue if u actually watch his play has the talent to play higher just not needed to as of yet. This is why he was in the ahl playing more qulaity mins rather then play sparingly in la. Yes he played alot in the offensive zone because he can play the offensive side better then the nhl defensive side Also the kings are loaded with polish defensive players. Proof of this is the fact kings were the best defensive dteam in the league and this plays a major reason why he gets mostly offensive side starts. There are better defensive defense man there and he will be brought in slow. Kinda remains me of when Slava first come up He couldn't get a full time gig until we traded JJ Don't kid urself the kid has the talent if given the chance Only thing is Martinez and /or Dion is blocking his path at the moment. Your discrediting the fact he kings can bring him along slow because we have higher end d ahead of him

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I agree he needs to play more mins and show what he can do but ur trying to call him only a bottom pairing player which he is not He is just playing bottom pair on a team with a deep right side there is a huge difference. LaDue if u actually watch his play has the talent to play higher just not needed to as of yet. This is why he was in the ahl playing more qulaity mins rather then play sparingly in la. Yes he played alot in the offensive zone because he can play the offensive side better then the nhl defensive side Also the kings are loaded with polish defensive players. Proof of this is the fact kings were the best defensive dteam in the league and this plays a major reason why he gets mostly offensive side starts. There are better defensive defense man there and he will be brought in slow. Kinda remains me of when Slava first come up He couldn't get a full time gig until we traded JJ Don't kid urself the kid has the talent if given the chance Only thing is Martinez and /or Dion is blocking his path at the moment. Your discrediting the fact he kings can bring him along slow because we have higher end d ahead of him

I think LaDue has upside, don’t get me wrong. What im saying is Edmonton couldn’t reasonably expect to slot him in anywhere but the bottom pairing until we see where he’s at developmentally and the problem is we already have a young RHD that shouldn’t be slotted anywhere but the bottom pairing in Matt Benning. Acquiring LaDue causes a problem because neither one of those guys should be expected to carry a top four defenceman’s load, and neither of those guys can be sent down without waivers.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think a reasonable ask is Klefbom for Toffoli, I don't know if EDM does it, but I think LA would take it, then look to flip Martinez/Muffin for a winger etc

 

[CupofOil]

Why would L.A. give up Toffoli for a #9/#10 pick? They are a team that is desperate for goal scoring so they give up their best natural goal scorer who is locked up for 2 more years for a fringe top 10 pick? Don't get the logic from L.A.'s point of view.
I could see them dealing Muzzin to add scoring up front, not subtract scoring.

On the other side, there's no way I'd add Bear to the 1st to get Toffoli. I'd rather keep those assets and develop Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Benson etc. and find a couple of stopgaps in the short term.

 

[go4hockey]

Hypothetically, what would you think about a straight swap for Puljujarvi?

He has not shown enough to get TT straight up. Your team would surely need to add. But really to me if we were talking with a division team about a Toffoli deal the price goes up cause it’s within the division. You would have to offer clearly more than any non division team.

 

[rent free]

I agree he needs to play more mins and show what he can do but ur trying to call him only a bottom pairing player which he is not He is just playing bottom pair on a team with a deep right side there is a huge difference. LaDue if u actually watch his play has the talent to play higher just not needed to as of yet. This is why he was in the ahl playing more qulaity mins rather then play sparingly in la. Yes he played alot in the offensive zone because he can play the offensive side better then the nhl defensive side Also the kings are loaded with polish defensive players. Proof of this is the fact kings were the best defensive dteam in the league and this plays a major reason why he gets mostly offensive side starts. There are better defensive defense man there and he will be brought in slow. Kinda remains me of when Slava first come up He couldn't get a full time gig until we traded JJ Don't kid urself the kid has the talent if given the chance Only thing is Martinez and /or Dion is blocking his path at the moment. Your discrediting the fact he kings can bring him along slow because we have higher end d ahead of him

what would you want from toronto for ladue?

 

[Ck1]

I think Ladue would be more valuble to to Oilers than Aberg. If we assume 2018 1st + Bear lands you Toffoli, i would swap Aberg for Ladue just because it gives you a RHD depth if I was the Oil. Don't think LA would though.

I don't think bear should be listed in any trade imo he is a rnd with potential to be a good pmd for the oilers in the future

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

I think Ladue would be more valuble to to Oilers than Aberg. If we assume 2018 1st + Bear lands you Toffoli, i would swap Aberg for Ladue just because it gives you a RHD depth if I was the Oil. Don't think LA would though.

If Toffoli costs a top 10 pick and Bear that's going to be a great big pass from me.

It would be a very Oilers thing to do though. Trade a 60 point winger for a disappointment after a down season and then turn around around move an arm and a leg for a consistent 50 point player.

Very Chiarellian

 

[Kale Hulls]

Why would L.A. give up Toffoli for a #9/#10 pick? They are a team that is desperate for goal scoring so they give up their best natural goal scorer who is locked up for 2 more years for a fringe top 10 pick? Don't get the logic from L.A.'s point of view.
I could see them dealing Muzzin to add scoring up front, not subtract scoring.

On the other side, there's no way I'd add Bear to the 1st to get Toffoli. I'd rather keep those assets and develop Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Benson etc. and find a couple of stopgaps in the short term.

I think Toffoli needs a change of scenery and the Kings are due for a retool. They will already have much more offense next year with a healthy Carter. They have a great defense right now, I don't think they should move anybody on D, but if they did, I wouldn't think it would be Martinez, guy is a stud.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

I just don’t think you can look at Toffoli’s production over the last three seasons and come to the conclusion that he’s worth that.

His best age appropriate comparables with similar games played are guys like Domi, Wennberg, Coyle, and Reinhart.

Again, I know you’re not obligated to move him, but a top ten pick is a very good offer.

I always hate it when people talk about production with snipers.

Toffoli is a goalscorer so will never rack up a lot of overrated assists.

The last four seasons he is averaging 26 goals a season based on 82 GP. Yet you constantly downgrade him throughout this thread, what are you expecting ? He is not in the same boat with Coyle, Domi and Wennberg.

 

[TheNumber4]

I always hate it when people talk about production with snipers.

Toffoli is a goalscorer so will never rack up a lot of overrated assists.

The last four seasons he is averaging 26 goals a season based on 82 GP. Yet you downgrade him throughout this thread, what are you expecting ? He is not in the same boat with Coyle, Domi and Wennberg.

Sure he's a sniper, but he'd be more valuable if he could be a more effective playmaker. He's not. Therefore he's not as valuable as snipers who can.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Sure he's a sniper, but he'd be more valuable if he could be a more effective playmaker. He's not. Therefore he's not as valuable as snipers who can.

Well thats fair and okay of course. Than he is just not a good fit. Thats something different.

Now i read stuff like two subpar seasons while he scored 24 goals and at least hit 8 goalposts and 16 goals while missing 20 games with mono...

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Well thats fair and okay of course. Than he is just not a good fit. Thats something different.

Now i read stuff like two subpar seasons while he scored 24 goals and at least hit 8 goalposts and 16 goals while missing 20 games with mono...

24 goals...subpar season.

It’s not that I’m trying to bash him for no reason - and I wasn’t aware asking questions and using stats was bashing him.

I’m trying to figure out how Kings fans can justify a valuation at needing a fairly sizeable addition to a top ten pick for a guy that scores goals at a decent, but not great, rate. Scoring goals is his strength, sure, but over the last two years he’s 99th league wide in goals scored. Injuries, sure. Posts? Everyone hits posts.

Look at a deal like Cory Schneider for 9th overall, or even Jordan Staal when he was dealt, for example. It’s hard to find comparables when dealing a top ten pick but Schneider was widely seen as a future Vezina winner and ‘the next one’ in goalie circles at the time for the trade. Staal has comparable production to Toffoli, with a Cup, and was looked at as one of the best defensive centres in the game.

My opinion is that 9th/10th overall IS an overpayment, which is what most Kings fans seem to think moving Toffoli would require. Wanting more than a top ten pick? That’s where ya lost me.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

It’s not that I’m trying to bash him for no reason, I’m trying to figure out how Kings fans can justify a valuation at needing a fairly sizeable addition to a top ten pick for a guy that scores goals at a decent, but not great, rate. Scoring goals is his strength, sure, but over the last two years he’s 99th league wide in goals scored. Injuries, sure. Posts? Everyone hits posts.

Look at a deal like Cory Schneider for 9th overall, for example. It’s hard to find comparables when dealing a top ten pick but Schneider was widely seen as a future Vezina winner and ‘the next one’ in goalie circles at the time for the trade.

My opinion is that 9th/10th overall IS an overpayment, which is what most Kings fans seem to think moving Toffoli would require. Wanting more than a top ten pick? That’s where ya lost me.

He is 25 years old and averaging 26 goals a season in a defensive system. Those are the facts.

You dont like him, no problem, no need to minimalize his goal scoring ability or call him supbar.

These players fetch a 1st rounder in the 10-15 range.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

what would you want from toronto for ladue?

I dunno if i really want to trade him to be honest but i'd be tempted with Josh Leivo and high pick 4 or 5th as i think rhs has more value then a winger

 

[rent free]

I dunno if i really want to trade him to be honest but i'd be tempted with Josh Leivo and high pick 4 or 5th as i think rhs has more value then a winger

what if we gave you 2 picks instead of leivo?

 

[KingCanadain1976]

what if we gave you 2 picks instead of leivo?

no we have alot of left hand defense man coming but very few right and only way i trade him is to improve our offense now Levio might do that picks you have to wait years and hope. We are in a win now position

 

[rent free]

no we have alot of left hand defense man coming but very few right and only way i trade him is to improve our offense now Levio might do that picks you have to wait years and hope. We are in a win now position

alright leivo and a 4th it is

 

[Kingspiracy]

I just don’t think you can look at Toffoli’s production over the last three seasons and come to the conclusion that he’s worth that.

His best age appropriate comparables with similar games played are guys like Domi, Wennberg, Coyle, and Reinhart.

Again, I know you’re not obligated to move him, but a top ten pick is a very good offer.

No thanks, I'd move him elsewhere if trading him.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Matt Benning and your 1st for Toffoli and LaDue