Value of: Toffoli to the Oilers

[ChaoticOrange]

Depends on if you rate yamamoto as a "top" prospect. RNH should absolutely grab a high first and top prospect.

Yes, Yamamoto is a top prospect, and no, Edmonton isn’t adding him to a top ten pick to get Toffoli and a meh 2nd.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Yes, Yamamoto is a top prospect, and no, Edmonton isn’t adding him to a top ten pick to get Toffoli and a meh 2nd.

Thats fine, but the question was what would it cost.

 

[Kale Hulls]

How about Yamamoto and a 1st for TT and a 2nd? edit.. or are we getting honed?

Yeah can't do that. Would Edmonton's 1st alone be able to get Toffoli? I understand Kings would be selling low on him right now with his poor playoff performance this last week, but I have to imagine they will want a shakeup after that loss and TT seems like the perfect asset to move, and I think he could have some real chem with McD or Drai based on his play style.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Talking contract has you can extend him if you like his demand or you don't trade for him, thats my point. We don't know what happened to pacioretty, he might had a breakdown, maybe he was not 100% healthy, doesn't change the fact that he's been consistant for the past 7 years PPG wise, with ****ty center depth.

Now lets talk toffoli.
Played with Carter most of his full career so far.
What if his best career 58pts was a fluke? he's current season ( wich is pacioretty worst right now) are his all-time average.
You act like he's signed for multiple year wich he isn't and you can't talk extension already. he's at 4.6 for only one more year than pacioretty.
You wouln't be able to trade for pacioretty, OEL, Karlsson, because you wouln't be able to keep them, You think Toffoli doesn't want a raise?


i fully understand you're concern about pacioretty's season and age and next contract. my point is just i prefer a 3 year old pacioretty than toffoli but that my own opinion, you can call it biased since im a habs fan, but it's not because i would prefer a bunch of similar player from other team with similar production over him!

Again, Teams trading for pacioretty for a good value, NEEDs to talk extension before the deal is done.

he's turning 30 next year what if he agrees for a 5 years @ 5.75-6?

Then we might have a 32-35 year old in decline signed at a boat anchor contract. It’s possble that Paciorettys best years are behind him. Rick Nash started to crater at around the same age.

The gamble is just too big. Will he sign. Can we afford him. Will he return to form. Is he done or isn’t he. Montreal has always had crap centre depth and he’s always produced til now. Edmonton takes 100% of the risk here. There’s zero downside for the Habs.

 

[member 88115]

I get it, but if the ask on top of a top ten pick is a good piece like Bear or God forbid whatever that Yamamoto ask was we’re better off just making the pick and giving Yamamoto the chance to make the club out of camp - again.

I understand, but Toffoli to the Oilers would an automatic no go because of how bad it could come back to bite us in the ass. And having to potentially see him in the playoffs with line mates that can meet his needs for success is too scary.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Thats fine, but the question was what would it cost.

There’s no reason Toffoli costs that much. He’s good but he’s not top ten pick and top prospect good. Tatar was referenced as a comparable and he certainly didn’t return close to that.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I understand, but Toffoli to the Oilers would an automatic no go because of how bad it could come back to bite us in the ass. And having to potentially see him in the playoffs with line mates that can meet his needs for success is too scary.

I wouldn’t worry too much about meeting us in the playoffs. Our management has no idea what it’s doing and it looks like Vegas will be spanking us all for awhile.

 

[TheNumber4]

Toffoli to EDM is interesting. But this years draft is filled with such high end D talent (right handed too) that I value the pick immensely. Also, the biggest need on the Oilers is another defenceman, an offensive RHD to be specific. I don't think we get that unless the pick is involved. Which is another reason not to trade it for a player like Toffoli who's just come off some mediocre seasons.

I do like Toffolis potential fit with either McDavid or Draisaitl though. But I'd rather see us fill the wings for cheap internally, and get Dmen externally who take longer to develop.

 

[HOPE]

Then we might have a 32-35 year old in decline signed at a boat anchor contract. It’s possble that Paciorettys best years are behind him. Rick Nash started to crater at around the same age.

The gamble is just too big. Will he sign. Can we afford him. Will he return to form. Is he done or isn’t he. Montreal has always had crap centre depth and he’s always produced til now. Edmonton takes 100% of the risk here. There’s zero downside for the Habs.

and paying a top 10 + prospect for 2 years of 47-ish pts toffoli, and extending him for 7 years after that at around 5.5-6 ( even more if the cap goes up even more)

do the math, 26+2= 28 + 7 = 35!

for a guy who never cracked 60points around a 1C.
Isn't it a bigger gamble?

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

A prospect or a player who is projected to score 20ish goals but has lots of speed. Toffoli isn't a bad player and will probably score 25-30 goals a season for the next 5 years at least. He just seems too comfortable in LA. More of a hockey trade of two guys who need a change in scenery. The first round pick + a prospect works too.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Yeah can't do that. Would Edmonton's 1st alone be able to get Toffoli? I understand Kings would be selling low on him right now with his poor playoff performance this last week, but I have to imagine they will want a shakeup after that loss and TT seems like the perfect asset to move, and I think he could have some real chem with McD or Drai based on his play style.

I think a 10ish 1st isn't enough of an incentive. As great as a some of the guys picked top ten are, we've had some doozies with picks like Hickey 4th oa and Teubert 13th oa in recent Kings history. We're giving up a player that scored 30 a couple of years ago under sutter and 24 this year with Carter out. I wouldn't even consider trading him if he hadn't has a dud playoffs (but most forwards weren't great for LA)

Yeah he would fit nicely on the Oil.

Just for shits and giggles, what would you add if LA picked up Lucic?

 

[Kingspiracy]

There’s no reason Toffoli costs that much. He’s good but he’s not top ten pick and top prospect good. Tatar was referenced as a comparable and he certainly didn’t return close to that.

Isn't it great that we can all have opinions

 

[member 88115]

I wouldn’t worry too much about meeting us in the playoffs. Our management has no idea what it’s doing and it looks like Vegas will be spanking us all for awhile.

Well, our coach is a dumb ass. He decided to let the boys play Sutter hockey to a Vegas team that was beatable. But he made no adjustments and got the door shut right in the nostrils. And we took like good church boys. Don't get me started, i don't want to dream about this crap.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Well, our coach is a dumb ass. He decided to let the boys play Sutter hockey to a Vegas team that was beatable. But he made no adjustments and got the door shut right in the nostrils. And we took like good church boys. Don't get me started, i don't want to dream about this crap.

That was Sutter regular season hockey. Post season hockey he let them loose. Weren't they top 3 in the NHL in the palyoffs both in 2012 and 2014 when they won the cup?

 

[yababy]

LA is wanting to rebuild, get younger. I think Toffoli would be part of that.

Kings are better off trading Doughty and Kopitar for picks and young stars

 

[member 88115]

That was Sutter regular season hockey. Post season hockey he let them loose. Weren't they top 3 in the NHL in the palyoffs both in 2012 and 2014 when they won the cup?

2012 I agree, but we had a deep team. 2014 to me was the year Sutter started to loose the team in the San Jose Series being down 0-3 and being a jack about playing Toffoli and Pearson. He had no choice to play the kids and let team a more open style.. Even though we won the cup, i felt some friction beginning. But i will forever love Sutter for what he did in LA. Just that the last years he became such a hard ass on the players and was unwilling to change his style due to how the game was being called.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Tatar is a reasonable comp in terms of value. He got a 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Lol not even close.

Tatar was someone Detroit was looking to move, he was also having a terrible season and Toffoli is a better goal scorer that LA has no real reason to move. They had Carter hurt for most of the season, the "70's" line is a huge part of that LA offense.

Seems idiotic to blow that up.

LA needs to add in addition to that line staying intact. It needs better wingers for Kopitar's line and better scoring depth on the 3rd and 4th lines.

Which is sort of the same problem with the Oilers, just worse on that front for Edmonton.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

LA is wanting to rebuild, get younger. I think Toffoli would be part of that.

Kings are better off trading Doughty and Kopitar for picks and young stars

Dustin Brown having a good year is when they should now try to move him again, see if anyone will bite. That frees up much needed cap space. Maybe send him to a team looking to get to the cap floor and can take that salary (Arizona, etc).

LA doesn't need to rebuild, they need to get out of that "let's try to be a little faster but stay heavy" mentality. They need to add more speed into that line-up, being a heavy team isn't going to do them any good. VGK owned them because of their speed.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Lol not even close.

Tatar was someone Detroit was looking to move, he was also having a terrible season and Toffoli is a better goal scorer that LA has no real reason to move. They had Carter hurt for most of the season, the "70's" line is a huge part of that LA offense.

Seems idiotic to blow that up.

LA needs to add in addition to that line staying intact. It needs better wingers for Kopitar's line and better scoring depth on the 3rd and 4th lines.

Which is sort of the same problem with the Oilers, just worse on that front for Edmonton.

70's line hasn't worked since 2014. Mostly cause every year since then someone has had a major injury. Pearson in 2015 (broken leg). Toffoli in 2017 (mono). Carter in 2018 (skate blade cut on leg tendon). Like I said above, Toffoli just seems way too comfortable in LA. Has the soon to be wife. Has the Dodgers (who she works for). Lives in LA. He looked like he was in awful shape this year. Not even kidding, he looked as slow as Milan Lucic and handled the puck about as awfully. BUT, he did score 24 goals cause he has elite hands. I'd be very wary about trading him if I was the Kings. A player with a floor of 25 goals is still a valuable player. His value is even higher for the Kings because they've always struggled scoring. Hopefully with a good kick in the ass this summer, a hard summer of workouts, and hopefully (I doubt it though) a new, more freeflowing system he can get back to the player he was a few years ago and score 30.

Someone like Pearson for Toffoli would be ideal if they were to trade him. 20ish goal scorer with great speed. Someone like Niederreiter?

 

[BleedBlue14]

I get where you're coming from he's nearly 4 years older with a year left only on his contract but pacioretty is getting so much underserved hate and undervalue its crazy, you aware he's Worst season right now, is exacly the same PPG has toffili this year, without a qualified center?

Toffoli is Right handed and a right winger. A lot of the fringe teams need that and not a left handed left winger. You may say that it doesn't matter but the main place not having a scorer hurt on the right side is on the powerplay. The Blues powerplay was absolutely atrocious because we did not have a competent right handed trigger man, not a right handed option anywhere aside from Brodziak/Thorburn/Sundqvist. One of those 3 is a career low end 3/great 4th liner. The other 2 aren't NHL players. Thompson also an option but needed seasoning. Patches has been a really good player (this year may have just been a down year) but the market has been in the media saturated with players who fill a similar role with either more term or less of a return demand than MB was supposedly wanting for Patches.

He's also getting undeserved hate around here because at the TDL he was getting shoved down about every team with a good center prospects throat and a lot of the conversations weren't exactly civil. A lot turned into a "we don't want him, or not at that price" which was perceived to be as he's getting hate because he's with MTL. Nonetheless, after seeing Kanes impact this year I'm sure a team will give up a Kane like return next year at the TDL. At the draft I'm not really sure a lot of teams seem to be straying from rentals unless they are top tier teams.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Isn't it great that we can all have opinions

I just don’t think you can look at Toffoli’s production over the last three seasons and come to the conclusion that he’s worth that.

His best age appropriate comparables with similar games played are guys like Domi, Wennberg, Coyle, and Reinhart.

Again, I know you’re not obligated to move him, but a top ten pick is a very good offer.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

and paying a top 10 + prospect for 2 years of 47-ish pts toffoli, and extending him for 7 years after that at around 5.5-6 ( even more if the cap goes up even more)

do the math, 26+2= 28 + 7 = 35!

for a guy who never cracked 60points around a 1C.
Isn't it a bigger gamble?

Not really no. That extra guaranteed year is very much worthwhile.

I think you’re going to have a really hard time getting that kind of value for Pacioretty. Most rentals - and he is a rental - return low firsts, conditional picks, and prospects.

The only way I’d feel comfortable trading for him is if there were conditions on performance as he looked absolutely done this year as well as conditions on him re-signing.

It would need to be a 2019 first as well. 9th/10th overall for a guy with a year on his deal just doesn’t happen.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

A prospect or a player who is projected to score 20ish goals but has lots of speed. Toffoli isn't a bad player and will probably score 25-30 goals a season for the next 5 years at least. He just seems too comfortable in LA. More of a hockey trade of two guys who need a change in scenery. The first round pick + a prospect works too.

Hypothetically, what would you think about a straight swap for Puljujarvi?

 

[Smartguy]

If that prospect is Bear, you would have my attention.

Bear is a tough one, Seth’s Brother Caleb maybe? He’s probably second to Bear in or system for prospect D. 2018 first plus Jones I think is fair. Oilers aren’t in any position really to trade any forward prospects if they trade that first, next year could be the first year in a long time we have some good pro prospect depth at forward.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

EDM 2018 1st, Ethan Bear, Pontus Aberg


Toffoli, Paul Ladue



Edit: I don't think LA does it. I think they're pretty high on Ladue as a regular on their blue line going forward. 1st + Bear is probably close to Toffoli's value and Ladue is definitely more valuable than Aberg.