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Value of: Toffoli to the Oilers

ChaoticOrange

ChaoticOrange

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Probably RNH. Maybe Klefbom. Maybe 2018 1st?

RNH is a definite no. Klefbom personally would also be a no but the org might feel different. LA probably says no to the first unless it’s top 3 at which point Edmonton says no.
 
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Raccoon Jesus

Raccoon Jesus

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I feel like Toffoli would kill it there. He needs a guy like Carter who can just speedily carry the puck through the neutral zone and TT floats into the soft spots in the wake he creates to snipe goals. I imagine that would be McDavid.

It's tough to say what a return would have to look like until we see what the Kings are trying to do because the pieces look different if they're trying to stay competitive/retool vs rebuild. In the 2nd case, I imagine futures would be of more value.
 
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ChaoticOrange

ChaoticOrange

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Raccoon Jesus said:
I feel like Toffoli would kill it there. He needs a guy like Carter who can just speedily carry the puck through the neutral zone and TT floats into the soft spots in the wake he creates to snipe goals. I imagine that would be McDavid.

It's tough to say what a return would have to look like until we see what the Kings are trying to do because the pieces look different if they're trying to stay competitive/retool vs rebuild. In the 2nd case, I imagine futures would be of more value.
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RNH and McDavid look to be a lock together and with those two literally anyone can be their winger. Ty Rattie just got an 800K one way contract for not being useless with them for 12 games or so.

A guy like Toffoli, IMO, we’d be looking to acquire as a potential long term fit for Leon Draisaitl.
 
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ChaoticOrange

ChaoticOrange

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kingsofLA said:
If that prospect is Bear, you would have my attention.
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Bear would be a very tough ask. He’s our only RHD prospect with top four upside. We need him.

A top ten pick and a very good prospect for a guy coming off of 47 and 34 point seasons is a very tough pill to swallow. I don’t see Toffoli having that much value on his own. I would not do it, but I know you’re under no obligation to move Toffoli.
 
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johnjm22

johnjm22

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Tatar is a reasonable comp in terms of value. He got a 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
 
HOPE

HOPE

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ChaoticOrange said:
No one is giving you a top ten pick, or a top 6 C, or a good defenceman, for a year of Pacioretty, especially after the year he just had.
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I get where you're coming from he's nearly 4 years older with a year left only on his contract but pacioretty is getting so much underserved hate and undervalue its crazy, you aware he's Worst season right now, is exacly the same PPG has toffili this year, without a qualified center?
 
ChaoticOrange

ChaoticOrange

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HOPE said:
I get where you're coming from he's nearly 4 years older with a year left only on his contract but pacioretty is getting so much underserved hate and undervalue its crazy, you aware he's Worst season right now, is exacly the same PPG has toffili this year, without a qualified center?
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Extra guaranteed year and five years younger. That means a lot.

Pacioretty with term would be a good add for us, but he doesn’t have term and you guys want everything that’s not nailed down in return.
 
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KlefDown said:
How much do you guys value a guy like Paul Ladue coming back?
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That is a tough one because he is our most NHL ready Dmen. He had one of the 3 goals we score against Vegas. Hated Stevens decision to bench him the next two for Folin. LaDue has put his time in the minors and I would not put him the proposal. We can throw a 4th or so with Toffoli
ChaoticOrange said:
Bear would be a very tough ask. He’s our only RHD prospect with top four upside. We need him.

A top ten pick and a very good prospect for a guy coming off of 47 and 34 point seasons is a very tough pill to swallow. I don’t see Toffoli having that much value on his own. I would not do it, but I know you’re under no obligation to move Toffoli.
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I get what your saying, but Toffoli with McDavid is asking for trouble. So being a division rival, it would require and overpayment. Toffoli was healthy two years and this year he played with Carter (ended up with Kempe most of the year) for only 1/3 of the season. Carter was not 100% when he came back and showed it in the playoffs. So Toffoli became a none factor with a half Carter and had to play with Reider (who i cant stand).
 
ChaoticOrange

ChaoticOrange

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kingsofLA said:
That is a tough one because he is our most NHL ready Dmen. He had one of the 3 goals we score against Vegas. Hated Stevens decision to bench him the next two for Folin. LaDue has put his time in the minors and I would not put him the proposal. We can throw a 4th or so with Toffoli

I get what your saying, but Toffoli with McDavid is asking for trouble. So being a division rival, it would require and overpayment. Toffoli was healthy two years and this year he played with Carter (ended up with Kempe most of the year) for only 1/3 of the season. Carter was not 100% when he came back and showed it in the playoffs. So Toffoli became a none factor with a half Carter and had to play with Reider (who i cant stand).
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Toffoli wouldn’t play with McDavid. He’d be on Draisaitl’s right side.

You’re also a division rival and with 9th/10th overall would also getting an excellent asset, is the reverse also not true re: overpayment?

I wouldn’t include Bear, we need him too much especially with Ryan Martha - our other good RD prospect - having a blood clot in his eye and his career possibly in jeopardy.

Lagesson or Berglund maybe - both showed excellently in Sweden this season.

I’d flip in a middling pick for Rieder if you don’t want him.
 
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HOPE

HOPE

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ChaoticOrange said:
Extra guaranteed year and five years younger. That means a lot.

Pacioretty with term would be a good add for us, but he doesn’t have term and you guys want everything that’s not nailed down in return.
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They dont even have they don't even have 3 years and a half different bud! don't know where you're coming from with your 5 years, but i totally agree he's 3 years older and that valuable so is his 1 more year on his contract, but he never came close to the player pacioretty was. Even more considering who toffoli played with!

for you last sentence, I'm pretty sure any team contacting Montreal for pacioretty will talk contract before paying a steep price, If you ever read my post you would know im far from being a homer and im a hockey fan before being a Habs fan, i would take an 3 year older pacioretty WAY toffoli ( thats depending on the asking price of his next contract!)

don't forget toffoli will also ask for a raise in 2 years!
 
ChaoticOrange

ChaoticOrange

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HOPE said:
They dont even have they don't even have 3 years and a half different bud! don't know where you're coming from with your 5 years, but i totally agree he's 3 years older and that valuable so is his 1 more year on his contract, but he never came close to the player pacioretty was. Even more considering who toffoli played with!

for you last sentence, I'm pretty sure any team contacting Montreal for pacioretty will talk contract before paying a steep price, If you ever read my post you would know im far from being a homer and im a hockey fan before being a Habs fan, i would take an 3 year older pacioretty WAY toffoli ( thats depending on the asking price of his next contract!)

don't forget toffoli will also ask for a raise in 2 years!
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Pacioretty is turning 30, Toffoli is turning 26. That’s a big gap, and trying to brush off Pacioretty’s performance this year as a one off is not comforting nor does it change his value to us. 37 points in 64 games from him is absolutely inexcusable. If he’s not declining, then he quit on the Habs and we don’t need that around.

Toffoli hasn’t been a world beater the last couple years but he’s still young enough to improve.

Talking contract doesn’t help us. If he has a good year, he’s going to want the moon and we don’t have that kind of cap space. Too much immovable uselessness like Lucic and overpaid gritensity like Russell, both of whom have NMC. If Pacioretty has a bad year then we just wasted a top pick. That’s what people don’t get when I say guaranteed contracts are valuable to Edmonton. Even if we do trade for guys like Karlsson or OEL or Pacioretty, we can’t afford to keep them long term whether they want to re-sign or not.
 
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ChaoticOrange said:
Toffoli wouldn’t play with McDavid. He’d be on Draisaitl’s right side.

You’re also a division rival and with 9th/10th overall would also getting an excellent asset, is the reverse also not true re: overpayment?

I wouldn’t include Bear, we need him too much especially with Ryan Martha - our other good RD prospect - having a blood clot in his eye and his career possibly in jeopardy.

Lagesson or Berglund maybe - both showed excellently in Sweden this season.

I’d flip in a middling pick for Rieder if you don’t want him.
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Just add Rieder to Toffoli and send us Bear. JK. I would not do the pick only. He still scored 24 goals with a rookie as his center in Kempe. Who btw, did not even play center when he was Ontario. If he can that with Kempe putting him Draisaitl or McDavid in the PP would be deadly and we play you guys to often to deal him for only 9th or so pick in this years draft. I understand some players are not available because of team needs, but Bear is the guy that (atleast for me) that can make me say yes to the Oilers.
 
ChaoticOrange

ChaoticOrange

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kingsofLA said:
Just add Rieder to Toffoli and send us Bear. JK. I would not do the pick only. He still scored 24 goals with a rookie as his center in Kempe. Who btw, did not even play center when he was Ontario. If he can that with Kempe putting him Draisaitl or McDavid in the PP would be deadly and we play you guys to often to deal him for only 9th or so pick in this years draft. I understand some players are not available because of team needs, but Bear is the guy that (atleast for me) that can make me say yes to the Oilers.
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I get it, but if the ask on top of a top ten pick is a good piece like Bear or God forbid whatever that Yamamoto ask was we’re better off just making the pick and giving Yamamoto the chance to make the club out of camp - again.
 
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HOPE

HOPE

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ChaoticOrange said:
Pacioretty is turning 30, Toffoli is turning 26. That’s a big gap, and trying to brush off Pacioretty’s performance this year as a one off is not comforting nor does it change his value to us. 37 points in 64 games from him is absolutely inexcusable. If he’s not declining, then he quit on the Habs and we don’t need that around.

Talking contract doesn’t help us. If he has a good year, he’s going to want the moon and we don’t have that kind of cap space. If he has a bad year then we just wasted a top pick. That’s what people don’t get when I say guaranteed contracts are valuable to Edmonton. Even if we do trade for guys like Karlsson or OEL or Pacioretty, we can’t afford to keep them long term whether they want to re-sign or not.
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Talking contract has you can extend him if you like his demand or you don't trade for him, thats my point. We don't know what happened to pacioretty, he might had a breakdown, maybe he was not 100% healthy, doesn't change the fact that he's been consistant for the past 7 years PPG wise, with shitty center depth.

Now lets talk toffoli.
Played with Carter most of his full career so far.
What if his best career 58pts was a fluke? he's current season ( wich is pacioretty worst right now) are his all-time average.
You act like he's signed for multiple year wich he isn't and you can't talk extension already. he's at 4.6 for only one more year than pacioretty.
You wouln't be able to trade for pacioretty, OEL, Karlsson, because you wouln't be able to keep them, You think Toffoli doesn't want a raise?


i fully understand you're concern about pacioretty's season and age and next contract. my point is just i prefer a 3 year old pacioretty than toffoli but that my own opinion, you can call it biased since im a habs fan, but it's not because i would prefer a bunch of similar player from other team with similar production over him!

Again, Teams trading for pacioretty for a good value, NEEDs to talk extension before the deal is done.

he's turning 30 next year what if he agrees for a 5 years @ 5.75-6?
 
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