Toews vs Backstrom

[Chelios]

they would have looked good if they would have finished off his plays. that short-handed breakaway would have looked good if he hadn't hit the post ... **** happens when you're asked to play against kids while dominating the men's senior league.

I still fail to see how your argument that Toews played with better players makes any sense. Tom Pyatt and Ryan O`Marra had a grand total of 1 goal the entire tournement so it was not as if they were responsible for Toews points. Backstrom played with better players, it is as simple as that. You brought up this argument, not me.

mentioning toews being picked ahead is pointless. don't question my debating skills if you're going to bring that up.

How is it pointless? The Chicago Blackhawks had a chance to pick either Backstrom or Toews, and they picked Toews. So no, it is not pointless.

he's "better" because he's simply more ready for the NHL than toews is. being "better" here is being ahead in his development. it's nothing personal against toews - but toews is playing in a college league while backstrom is playing in the SEL. who do you think plays against the better opposition?

Its funny that you should state emphatically that Backstrom is more NHL ready. It seemed the general consensus after the WJCs was that Toews was the most NHL ready player in the entire tournement. In fact, it looks like he will play for the Hawks this season after the college season is over. Do you really want to continue this argument, or would you just like to admit that maybe you are underrating Toews?

 

[sansabri]

not underrating anything. toews played with different partners. toews didn't dominate like backstrom did. i don't know what WJC you were watching, but toews played a good tournament. but he wasn't the best player out there. he was clutch in a shoot-out ( hooray ) and was also outshined by someone named carey price.

you'll be real happy with him in chicago. there's no doubt about that.

but give backstrom his props. he's the bomb.

did you see both canada vs. sweden games? backstrom was playing way better than toews.

 

[Habsfan 32]

Backstrom really looks like he's going to be a impact player along the lines of Forsberg.

 

[Chelios]

not underrating anything. toews played with different partners. toews didn't dominate like backstrom did. i don't know what WJC you were watching, but toews played a good tournament. but he wasn't the best player out there. he was clutch in a shoot-out ( hooray ) and was also outshined by someone named carey price.

you'll be real happy with him in chicago. there's no doubt about that.

but give backstrom his props. he's the bomb.

did you see both canada vs. sweden games? backstrom was playing way better than toews.

What tournement was I watching? Obviously not the one you were watching. I was watching the actual tournement, the one where Toews was the top forward in the tournement. The one where he scored three game winning goals, including the gold medal winning goal and a shootout where he scored on all three of his chances. The tournement, where not only did he lead the top team in the tournement offensively, but also killed off 5-3 powerplays, blocked a ton of shots and took all the key face-offs. It honestly astonishes me how incredibly biased you are being. Find me one knowledgable, non-biased person who thinks Backstrom played better than Toews.

And again you bring up the linemates. Are you honestly trying to say to me that Tom Pyatt and Ryan O`Marra are betteer offensively than Bergfors and Berglund? Give me a break. You have provided absolutely no evidence to support any of your claims. All you seem to do is say things like "Backstrom is the Bomb", "Backstrom played way better" and "backstrom is going to be amazing" without ever backing them up. If you are giong to continue to argue with me the least you could do is give me some reasons and evidence for your point of view.

 

[Crazyhorse]

What tournement was I watching? Obviously not the one you were watching. I was watching the actual tournement, the one where Toews was the top forward in the tournement. The one where he scored three game winning goals, including the gold medal winning goal and a shootout where he scored on all three of his chances. The tournement, where not only did he lead the top team in the tournement offensively, but also killed off 5-3 powerplays, blocked a ton of shots and took all the key face-offs. It honestly astonishes me how incredibly biased you are being. Find me one knowledgable, non-biased person who thinks Backstrom played better than Toews.

And again you bring up the linemates. Are you honestly trying to say to me that Tom Pyatt and Ryan O`Marra are betteer offensively than Bergfors and Berglund? Give me a break. You have provided absolutely no evidence to support any of your claims. All you seem to do is say things like "Backstrom is the Bomb", "Backstrom played way better" and "backstrom is going to be amazing" without ever backing them up. If you are giong to continue to argue with me the least you could do is give me some reasons and evidence for your point of view.

Christ...

Exept in the first game, Bäckström didn't play with Bergfors, not even on the powerplay. He didn't play with Berglund, exept late in the robin game against US. Don't tell me Lindquist and Zackrisson is better then Pyatt and O'Marra.

And you might aswell answer Sans question: Who is playing against the better competition, Toews or Bäckström?

Theres no doubt Toews will be a great player, but i think it is wrong to name him the better just because a one-week tournament.

And i think it is way wrong to just count Bäckström as an offensive force only. He is great at penalty killing aswell, and allways take care of his own end.

 

[Joretus]

This is interesting. Then again typical.

-Toews won gold in WJC, this makes him clutch player.
-Bäckström won in mens tournament, but it doesn't count since it's just world champs
-Bäckström have been playing good in Sweden against men, but it doesn't count since it's just in some european crappy league
-Toews haven't played well in college, but it doesn't count since he have had some injury before
-Toews scored in shoot out, makes him clutch player, meanwhile goalies didn't save much in shootout, but it doesn't count, since it was against Toews
-Bäckström had some good talents in same team, so they basically made him looking good when he did something nice
-Toews had some bad linemates, but he still made them and whole team Canada the winner, without him Canada would have been 6th or so I bet

So basically any point which is pointing out Bäckström being better isn't valid, but any point which is proving Toews being better is valid no matter how silly those sounds. Ie. 6 games in clearly best team in the tournament is better showoff against 19'ish boys than professional league showoff against men when you are 18.

 

[Kaizer]

+1.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=328993 - 6 games aren't enough to make a decision.
This thread - 6 games are most important games for them a this stage. It proves a lot if you are good or bad in 6 games.

 

[Garl]

I remember that Henrik Zetterberg wasn't in TOP 30 scorers in WJC. And so did Martin Havlat.

 

[#1 GM*]

To answer the question of who is more NHL ready? This is pretty obvious...Backstrom. I can't believe anyone would even question this. The kid was leading the Swedish Elite league in points. And on top of that he was averaging more than a point per game. Both of these are tremendous accomplishments for an 18 year old. He's already playing with men, so a jump to the NHL isn't as big a transition for Backstrom than it is for Towes. Towes plays with college kids. nough said. Having said that, this should not undermine Towes. I just think that Towes will need a couple of years in the NHL before his production goes up. Backstrom will win thr rookie of the year next year.

Backstrom has the more offensive potential of both. He'll be a better fantasy player than Towes. Towes will be no chump himself though. I have them both as prospects in my keeper pool so I aint complaining!!

 

[Chelios]

Christ...

Exept in the first game, Bäckström didn't play with Bergfors, not even on the powerplay. He didn't play with Berglund, exept late in the robin game against US. Don't tell me Lindquist and Zackrisson is better then Pyatt and O'Marra.

Can we please put this argument to bed. Sans brought it up as an excuse for Backstrom`s poor play and insinuated that Toews was playing with superior offensive players which simply isnt true. I`m not going to have a pissing contest over who was playing with the worse player.

And you might aswell answer Sans question: Who is playing against the better competition, Toews or Bäckström?

Why would I answer that question, it is pretty obvious who is playing against better competition. How is that relavent? Last I checked Backstrom was from Sweden and Toews was from Canada. Europeen players have an opportunity to play against men much earlier than North American players, does that make them better?

Theres no doubt Toews will be a great player, but i think it is wrong to name him the better just because a one-week tournament.

Read my posts, I am not saying Toews is the better player based solely on this tournement. I have said that they are very close and i can see people taking either. The thing I take exception to is that everyone who takes Backstrom over Toews talks about this big advantage Backstrom has offensively, which I don`t really see. So please enlighten me, what exactly is that makes Backstrom so much better than Toews offensively that it would overcome the other aspects of the game where Toews has a distinct advantage?

And i think it is way wrong to just count Bäckström as an offensive force only. He is great at penalty killing aswell, and allways take care of his own end.

Nowhere did I say Backstrom wasn`t good defensively, only in comparison to Toews. This is not a slight on Backstrom (who is actually pretty good defensively), it is more of a compliment on Toews. There are very few players who play so well defensively at such a young age.

 

[Chelios]

To answer the question of who is more NHL ready? This is pretty obvious...Backstrom. I can't believe anyone would even question this. The kid was leading the Swedish Elite league in points. And on top of that he was averaging more than a point per game. Both of these are tremendous accomplishments for an 18 year old. He's already playing with men, so a jump to the NHL isn't as big a transition for Backstrom than it is for Towes.

Why wouldn`t someone question this. I think people are looking to far into an average first half of the season for Toews where he was not 100%. Most people who watched the WJCs seemed to think Toews was the most NHL ready player on the ice. He was offered a contract by the Hawks at the start of the season and most likely will play soome games for the Hawks after this college season is done. I can see how someone would say Backstrom is more NHL ready since he already plays with men, but to say there is no question who is more NHL ready is rediculous.

 

[An Ape called Yoko]

This is interesting. Then again typical.

-Toews won gold in WJC, this makes him clutch player.
-Bäckström won in mens tournament, but it doesn't count since it's just world champs
-Bäckström have been playing good in Sweden against men, but it doesn't count since it's just in some european crappy league
-Toews haven't played well in college, but it doesn't count since he have had some injury before
-Toews scored in shoot out, makes him clutch player, meanwhile goalies didn't save much in shootout, but it doesn't count, since it was against Toews
-Bäckström had some good talents in same team, so they basically made him looking good when he did something nice
-Toews had some bad linemates, but he still made them and whole team Canada the winner, without him Canada would have been 6th or so I bet

So basically any point which is pointing out Bäckström being better isn't valid, but any point which is proving Toews being better is valid no matter how silly those sounds. Ie. 6 games in clearly best team in the tournament is better showoff against 19'ish boys than professional league showoff against men when you are 18.

There you have it. How true.

 

[Chimpradamus]

Canadians simply produce better captains and leaders. Perhaps the culture in Europe makes the players not value the cup as much as Canadians I'm not sure. If I'm going into the playoffs, I want Sakic, Yzerman, Brind'Amour, Smyth, etc leading my team. There has been plenty of euro captains and they've all failed to get it done, give me a call when one of them wins a cup.

Funny... I want my team to be lead by 20 players that step up and take responsibility, just not one. I think some people think who is leading the team is more important than the actual team. You need several key elements to become a successful team, who has the C on the jersey is a small one.

As for your "Euros have no leadership qualities and have no heart" rant, that's just laughable.

 

[WashCapsfan4life8]

Backstrom - No doubt about it. He shows alot of young talent when he plays and he never gives up.

 

[krazyhawk]

This debate could go on forever with no clear winner.Even if you compare every facet of their games,(faceoffs,shot,passing,etc.)it won't make a difference.Backstrom is better at some things(but not by much)and Toews is better at others(again,not by much).Skill and talentwise it's a wash.What gives Toews a slight edge(at the moment),is his just proven ability to pick up his game as the pressure rises and the game is on the line.
I could go on,but I feel like I've read all this before,just can't think where. OH yes !! Now I remember.It was a number of years ago.The great Colorado debates over who was better and who you would rather build your team around.Two guys by the names of Forsberg and Sakic I believe it was.The debates raged on for years,and would have gone on longer if Forsberg's feet hadn't betrayed him.So in closing,I'll leave you with this.
Backstrom=Forsberg (less phsyicality but two healthy feet)
Toews=Sakic
Who is better? Who would you build your team around? If you had both of them and could only keep one because of the cap,who would it be.LET THE DEBATE CONTINUE !!

 

[NyQuil]

Until they both play in the same league and we have a pretty good sample of games to evaluate, it's a discussion that can't really go anywhere.

 

[krazyhawk]

Almost forgot.There was also some question as to who was more NHL ready.Well Backstrom was committed to the SEL for another year,otherwise he'd be in the NHL now.Toews was offered a contract by Chicago,but chose to return to school instead.So he could of been there too.They're both ready !!!!

 

[bullsville]

To answer the question of who is more NHL ready? This is pretty obvious...Backstrom. I can't believe anyone would even question this. The kid was leading the Swedish Elite league in points. And on top of that he was averaging more than a point per game. Both of these are tremendous accomplishments for an 18 year old. He's already playing with men, so a jump to the NHL isn't as big a transition for Backstrom than it is for Towes. Towes plays with college kids. nough said. Having said that, this should not undermine Towes. I just think that Towes will need a couple of years in the NHL before his production goes up. Backstrom will win thr rookie of the year next year.

Backstrom has the more offensive potential of both. He'll be a better fantasy player than Towes. Towes will be no chump himself though. I have them both as prospects in my keeper pool so I aint complaining!!

Yeah, playing with kids who has 1 or 2 years more than him...and i think that NCAA has more level than swedigsh league(dont take too serious,its my opinion

 

[Crazyhorse]

Yeah, playing with kids who has 1 or 2 years more than him...and i think that NCAA has more level than swedigsh league(dont take too serious,its my opinion

Are you saying that NCAA is better then the swedish elite league?

Anyway, let the future decide which one is better.

 

[bullsville]

Are you saying that NCAA is better then the swedish elite league?

Anyway, let the future decide which one is better.

Well,its my opinion,i think NCAA is better but anyway i respect your opinion...
Anyways i this guys will be terrific players in the NHL,and both are ready to make the NHL next season

 

[sansabri]

Why wouldn`t someone question this. I think people are looking to far into an average first half of the season for Toews where he was not 100%. Most people who watched the WJCs seemed to think Toews was the most NHL ready player on the ice. He was offered a contract by the Hawks at the start of the season and most likely will play soome games for the Hawks after this college season is done. I can see how someone would say Backstrom is more NHL ready since he already plays with men, but to say there is no question who is more NHL ready is rediculous.

um ... who thought this? HF boarders?

i never heard of toews being more "ready" for the NHL than backstrom. backstrom has always been dubbed the more ready one since the draft itself.

god. i don't think you've read much on backstrom and how mcphee did everything to try and get him in a caps uniform.

and yeah, there's no question - backstrom is the one who is more ready.

i don't think you watched much of the tournament if you think toews dominated it.

 

[Chelios]

Again Sansabri, another post making generalities without anything to back it up. Answer me one question: What skills does Backstrom possess offensively that puts him so far ahead of Toews that it makes up for the other areas in which Toews has a distinct advantage? I have asked this about four times and you have yet to answer it. I realize that you love Backstrom and prefer him to Toews, but I would honestly like to know why.

um ... who thought this? HF boarders?

i never heard of toews being more "ready" for the NHL than backstrom. backstrom has always been dubbed the more ready one since the draft itself.

Virtually evey hockey insider at the world juniors said that Toews was NHL ready.

god. i don't think you've read much on backstrom and how mcphee did everything to try and get him in a caps uniform.

What does this have to do with anything?

and yeah, there's no question - backstrom is the one who is more ready.

Again, how is it that there is "no question" that Backstrom is more ready than Toews? You have yet to give any reason for this other than the leagues they play in which doesnt really say much, if Toews was Swedish he would be playing in the SEL.

i don't think you watched much of the tournament if you think toews dominated it.

Take a look at the media from the tournement, EVERYONE thought Toews dominated it. If you are looking to make a case that Backstrom is better than Toews you are going to have to look somewhere other than the world juniors.

 

[Zine]

and i think that NCAA has more level than swedigsh league(dont take too serious,its my opinion

Front runner for 2007 most ridiculous post of the year!!!!

 

[Hawkey]

I think Backstrom and Toews will both be good NHLers, but play different styles. However, how can the Backstrom supporters saying he dominated the tournament be serious when he scored zero goals. For a forward to dominate I think they should have scored at least once in a 7 games!? Also, as bad as Backstroms linemates were as some of you say (which really is not an arguement because Toews linemates probably had less skill), don't you think he would have more goals than assists?

Backstrom supporters have to realize that at this tournament Toews was clutch when his team needed him most and Backstrom was not. Canada was not a favourite in the tournament (any one of Sweden, Canada, US, Russia) could have won this tournament and Toews was integral in Canada winning.

 

[Maken*]

Backstrom looked very overrated at the tournament. Based on this tournament, Toews easily.