this will be it for George......

Zoidberg Jesus

Trotzkyist
Oct 25, 2011
3,814
0
That's being kind to Neuvirth. How many of those other middling players would we take straight up for him, right now? All but 2?

That wasn't a ranking, it was just the order they were drafted within the second round. I'd probably rank Neuvirth the same as you, but it's not like there's a whole lot separating him from anyone in that group. Their trade value is probably all in the neighborhood of a 2nd round pick.

And the "remaining 20 guys" had 2 picked by George (one was 5th overall!). And you talk about half that 2nd round as being worthwhile. So 1 of every 2. Caps has 3 players. 1 that wouldn't be top 10 now for that 2nd round, and 2 that shouldn't have been drafted. I'd says you made my point for me.

I applauded Backstrom and Varlamov at the time, and hated the rest. I was wrong on Perrault. Where else was I wrong?

I'm not sure where you got "about half" from since I clearly said a third. 10 ended up middling or better, 23 ended up grinders or worse. 10/33 is 30%. So the expectation for three picks is one guy that's middling or better, which is exactly what we got. Perfectly average.

If you have Neuvirth outside the top 10, I'd like to know which two of Enroth, Nodl, Emmerton, and Weber you'd take ahead of him.

I guess I should mention I'm also in the fire McPhee crowd.
 

Raikkonen

Dumb guy
Aug 19, 2009
10,714
3,166
Russia
George is good in some things and bad in others. Namely the newbie coaches again and again... They are ruining even good roster decisions by George if it occurs.

So ultimately it's hard to say GMGM is good for winning the cup task.

And now I should offer something different... but I can't offer anything in what I believe for 100%
 

Ajax1995

Registered User
Dec 9, 2002
8,797
858
I think many feel McPhee is good at acquiring talent. But as far as team builder goes he definitely leaves something to be desired. I can't think of many if any McPhee teams that have been more than the sum or their parts unfortunately.
 

Ridley Simon

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
18,123
9,066
Marin County — SF Bay Area, CA
Pick a team at random, and see how their 2006 draft compares to the Caps.

Edit: Just went back and looked at the draft for all 30 teams. Two conclusions:

1: It wasn't a very good draft, at all.
2: The Bruins are the only team that could be argued to have a better draft than the Caps. There's not even anyone else you can begin to make a cogent argument for.

So if you'd like to continue bashing George for this draft, your credibility for all things George is pretty much destroyed.

And just a reminder, I desperately want George gone.

You guys and this credibility crap. I honestly don't give a crap what anyone thinks of me. That's really not what this is about.

At the time of the draft, I was unhappy for George's picks post round 1. In particular, his 3 2nd round picks. It's been argued that 13 of the 33 2nd rounders "made it" in the NHL. George had 2 of the top 5, and only 1 made it, and he's arguably 9-11th or so of those 13. To say George did "well" just isn't true, in my eyes.

Yes, he hit on Perrault. I already admitted I was wrong on that.
 

Ridley Simon

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
18,123
9,066
Marin County — SF Bay Area, CA
That wasn't a ranking, it was just the order they were drafted within the second round. I'd probably rank Neuvirth the same as you, but it's not like there's a whole lot separating him from anyone in that group. Their trade value is probably all in the neighborhood of a 2nd round pick.



I'm not sure where you got "about half" from since I clearly said a third. 10 ended up middling or better, 23 ended up grinders or worse. 10/33 is 30%. So the expectation for three picks is one guy that's middling or better, which is exactly what we got. Perfectly average.

If you have Neuvirth outside the top 10, I'd like to know which two of Enroth, Nodl, Emmerton, and Weber you'd take ahead of him.

I guess I should mention I'm also in the fire McPhee crowd.

In the 2nd Rd, 13 of 33 have "made it" so far. So not half, but more than 10.
 

NobodyBeatsTheWiz

Happy now?
Jun 26, 2004
23,413
1,964
The Burbs
You guys and this credibility crap. I honestly don't give a crap what anyone thinks of me. That's really not what this is about.

At the time of the draft, I was unhappy for George's picks post round 1. In particular, his 3 2nd round picks. It's been argued that 13 of the 33 2nd rounders "made it" in the NHL. George had 2 of the top 5, and only 1 made it, and he's arguably 9-11th or so of those 13. To say George did "well" just isn't true, in my eyes.

Yes, he hit on Perrault. I already admitted I was wrong on that.

I'm just going to re-emphasize that you're complaining about a draft that was, at worst, second best of any GM in the league.
 

Ridley Simon

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
18,123
9,066
Marin County — SF Bay Area, CA
I'm just going to re-emphasize that you're complaining about a draft that was, at worst, second best of any GM in the league.

Who else had 5 picks in the top 50? Caps should have had THE best draft, bar none, what with #4 overall and the rest. You think George made the lay-up. I think he clanged it, got fouled, and made 1 free throw.

And again, I was frustrated w George still having the GM job, and the Caps picks after round 1.

I will ask again: where exactly was I wrong, beyond Perrault?
 

NobodyBeatsTheWiz

Happy now?
Jun 26, 2004
23,413
1,964
The Burbs
Who else had 5 picks in the top 50? Caps should have had THE best draft, bar none, what with #4 overall and the rest. You think George made the lay-up. I think he clanged it, got fouled, and made 1 free throw.

And again, I was frustrated w George still having the GM job, and the Caps picks after round 1.

I will ask again: where exactly was I wrong, beyond Perrault?
The Caps got 3 NHLers out of those 5 picks, which is outstanding.

Caps did have THE best draft. Only one other team was even close.

They got the best player in the draft and the best goalie in the draft. It could have very realistically have been Brassard and Irving instead of Backstrom and Varlamov, and no one would have batted an eye on draft day.

For all the good arguments you make against George, this one is completely and utterly asinine.
 

Portable Mink

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
7,023
2,271
Melbourne, Australia
McPhee can't manipulate assets into a well balanced team and cannot make the moves that take the team from the middle to the top by addressing needs.

Hoarding and not making moves because he's too scared to trade away value for impact is why we never got a second line centre when we needed one most and now have 3 young solid goalies and about 6 same ilk defenders rotating when I'm sure most would be happy to lose a few for an established veteran presence.
 

Ridley Simon

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
18,123
9,066
Marin County — SF Bay Area, CA
The Caps got 3 NHLers out of those 5 picks, which is outstanding.

Caps did have THE best draft. Only one other team was even close.

They got the best player in the draft and the best goalie in the draft. It could have very realistically have been Brassard and Irving instead of Backstrom and Varlamov, and no one would have batted an eye on draft day.

For all the good arguments you make against George, this one is completely and utterly asinine.

Look, we are just going sideways. You promote your argument touting 2 players I have repeatedly said were good picks (Backstrom and Varlamov, though Toews and Bernier may/ will eventually dismiss your best players assertions).

That leaves Neuvirth. Let's just agree to disagree. Caps could have gone in a lot of better directions with their 2nd rounders, and the results are not good, from where I sit. You disagree. Got it.

I will give you some points for not using words like disturbing when commenting on this thread. Asinine always gives me a reason to smirk.
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
69,649
14,131
New Bern, NC
You guys and this credibility crap. I honestly don't give a crap what anyone thinks of me. That's really not what this is about..

it doesn't really matter what its about, if people see its a post from you and already know what you are going to say and move on without reading it.

just skip to the bottom, read the fire McPhee tag and ...next?

the downside of no cred is that you start typing for your own gratification. so, you do care or else you wouldn't be posting.

btw...are you suggesting neuvirth is not an nhl level player?
 

Ridley Simon

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
18,123
9,066
Marin County — SF Bay Area, CA
it doesn't really matter what its about, if people see its a post from you and already know what you are going to say and move on without reading it.

just skip to the bottom, read the fire McPhee tag and ...next?

the downside of no cred is that you start typing for your own gratification. so, you do care or else you wouldn't be posting.

btw...are you suggesting neuvirth is not an nhl level player?

We all have our Schtick, don't we Tex? Some hammer George, others hammer Oates, more others hammer certain players, and some even hammer our own fans. Far as who reads me, obviously some do, or this thread wouldn't have 2 more pages added to it.

Far as that comment, about writing for ones own gratification....perhaps you're giving us a little window into what's driving you, yes? Mirror mirror, on the wall?

Neuvirth is an NHL player. People can't read. However, did we do well by drafting him, Seabrook, and Bouchard in the 2nd round, when looking at other players drafted afterwards?

No
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
69,649
14,131
New Bern, NC
We all have our Schtick, don't we Tex? Some hammer George, others hammer Oates, more others hammer certain players, and some even hammer our own fans. Far as who reads me, obviously some do, or this thread wouldn't have 2 more pages added to it.

Far as that comment, about writing for ones own gratification....perhaps you're giving us a little window into what's driving you, yes? Mirror mirror, on the wall?

Neuvirth is an NHL player. People can't read. However, did we do well by drafting him, Seabrook, and Bouchard in the 2nd round, when looking at other players drafted afterwards?

No

not can't read, bud. didn't read. so, which is your schtick, rids? might it be all of the above? because I disagree with the constant and whithering negativity when it goes over the top, I hammer the fans?? I am a fan and you and almost every one of you that I disagree with happily hammer me back. big deal.

you said you don't care what other posters think of you. I just pointed out that if you have no cred, people stop reading.

as to that draft. lets micromanage every draft, player by player. last time I checked the league consensus is that while most teams are struggling to develope solid nhl goaltender, the caps seem to have scored with 4 in a row. yet you want to use that strength as a weapon to prove failure. I am not buying.
 

Ridley Simon

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
18,123
9,066
Marin County — SF Bay Area, CA
not can't read, bud. didn't read. so, which is your schtick, rids? might it be all of the above? because I disagree with the constant and whithering negativity when it goes over the top, I hammer the fans?? I am a fan and you and almost every one of you that I disagree with happily hammer me back. big deal.

you said you don't care what other posters think of you. I just pointed out that if you have no cred, people stop reading.

as to that draft. lets micromanage every draft, player by player. last time I checked the league consensus is that while most teams are struggling to develope solid nhl goaltender, the caps seem to have scored with 4 in a row. yet you want to use that strength as a weapon to prove failure. I am not buying.

My shtick? All of the above? Lol. Hardly? You said it yourself. "Fire George". That's it, pretty simple, and unwavering. I try not to get too caught up in the rest. If you think everyone is so negative, then maybe they'd have reasons to be? Or you just think that their shtick.

Far as the rest... I don't hammer on Oates. I seldom hammer on players. It's been obvious to me that this franchise had needed new leadership at the top.

That's nothing new.
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
37,008
13,425
Philadelphia
First off, it's spelled "Perreault." Not "Perrault." He spent several seasons here and continues to be brought up in discussions on this board. Spell his name correctly.

Next, I'm going to post this again. For all the clamoring about top 50 picks, top 50 picks are far from guaranteed to pan out.
http://myslu.stlawu.edu/~msch/sports/Schuckers_NHL_Draft.pdf
A forward drafted in round 2 has a 18% chance of playing 200 career NHL games. 12% for a 2nd round defenseman. Goalies fair the best, but are still at a mere 25%. The 50th percentile among all 2nd round picks for career NHL games played is only 22. The 75th percentile is only 281. The mean games played among 2nd round goaltenders in their career is 148. Neuvirth is already at 129.

Players selected by Washington in 2006 rank 3rd, 34th, 37th, and 40th in NHL games played. What makes that even more impressive is that two of those are goaltenders (who traditionally get less GPs per season than healthy skaters), and they shared the same net for multiple seasons.
 

Ridley Simon

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
18,123
9,066
Marin County — SF Bay Area, CA
First off, it's spelled "Perreault." Not "Perrault." He spent several seasons here and continues to be brought up in discussions on this board. Spell his name correctly.

Next, I'm going to post this again. For all the clamoring about top 50 picks, top 50 picks are far from guaranteed to pan out.
http://myslu.stlawu.edu/~msch/sports/Schuckers_NHL_Draft.pdf
A forward drafted in round 2 has a 18% chance of playing 200 career NHL games. 12% for a 2nd round defenseman. Goalies fair the best, but are still at a mere 25%. The 50th percentile among all 2nd round picks for career NHL games played is only 22. The 75th percentile is only 281. The mean games played among 2nd round goaltenders in their career is 148. Neuvirth is already at 129.

Players selected by Washington in 2006 rank 3rd, 34th, 37th, and 40th in NHL games played. What makes that even more impressive is that two of those are goaltenders (who traditionally get less GPs per season than healthy skaters), and they shared the same net for multiple seasons.

Ok Mystyle. My bad. I spelled his name wrong. You got me. My sincerest apologies to you, and to the PerrEault family.

Pretty fancy stats you pulled up. I'm sure they all work well in a vacuum. I've discussed the flawed logic in touting Neuvirths started games stat, as it has more to do with the team that drafted him, than the player himself. You are ignoring that, ok. You are seeing what you want to see, as am I. That's fine.

The rest is just rehashing the same crap I have already commented on in this thread. Let's take your junior debate skills to another topic, as this one has been beaten to death. Please start a thread for us, discussing something you are passionate about, and that you'd like to take a stand on (versus just attempting to pound on someone else).

Ready....go.;)

Edit-- turns out you've never actually started a thread save a few game day ones. Huh. That says something.
 
Last edited:

Liberati0n*

Guest
Ok Mystyle. My bad. I spelled his name wrong. You got me. My sincerest apologies to you, and to the PerrEault family.

Pretty fancy stats you pulled up. I'm sure they all work well in a vacuum. I've discussed the flawed logic in touting Neuvirths started games stat, as it has more to do with the team that drafted him, than the player himself. You are ignoring that, ok. You are seeing what you want to see, as am I. That's fine.

The rest is just rehashing the same crap I have already commented on in this thread. Let's take your junior debate skills to another topic, as this one has been beaten to death. Please start a thread for us, discussing something you are passionate about, and that you'd like to take a stand on (versus just attempting to pound on someone else).

Ready....go.;)

white_flag.jpg
 

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