The worst player in the 500 goal club?

[Weztex]

In terms of talent yes. In terms of what he brings to a team, what a coach needs, no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not top 100, not even close.

Just like some say Jagr is Top-5 all time in terms of talent. Sure, but was he that good overall, in terms of the value he brought to a team and the performances he's had. Not top 5. Still possibly top-20 but not top-5.

Judgements of best/worst depends if you're looking at offensive puck-handling talent or overall value and performance on a team. I tend to look at it from a coach's perspective and with the real season of the playoffs in mind. Do I take McDonald or Selanne? McDonald. Ciccarelli or Selanne? Ciccarelli. Verbeek or Selanne? Verbeek. The issue isn't so clear with Robitaille, Andreychuk, Turgeon.

Selanne is on a lot of top 100 list. He's personally around 90-100 on mine but I rate in terms of dominance and overall career. Anyway if Ciccarelli made it on some of those lists, I don't see the problem considering him a top 100 in the game. But as you said, it's all subjective.

 

[Weztex]

All you need to know about Gartner is that he got traded time and time again at the trade deadline. But always away from a team that was trying to win the Cup to teams that were already out of it. He was absolutely the opposite of clutch in the play-offs.

That's the problem with Gartner. The HHOF is for great players and greats don't get traded at the deadline. Teams are built around them. Gartner has been a very good player and had an amazing regularity. Still, 93 pts in 122 playoff games in the most offensive era dosen't do it for me. It's safe to say the main reason Gartner is in the HOF are his 15 consecutive seasons of 30 goals (Jagr will equal that mark this year by the way) but I feel that induction lower the bar a little.

 

[MXD]

Gartner,Verbeek and Richard

RRUIIINNSSSS ALerT!

 

[MXD]

My call would have been Lanny McDonald if the "poll" would have been strictly on offensive firepower.

But overall... Pat Verbeek. Then Andreychuck.

 

[Malefic74]

Just a note for those folks against Turgeon.

Sneaky Pete was having a career year in 1993. He'd scored 58 goals, had 74 helpers for 132 points in 83 games. Tied for 5th in points and 6th in goals. The Islanders barely snuck into the playoffs and started things off by upsetting the favoured Caps. After scoring a goal in the clinching game he was hit as he was celebrating by Dale Hunter in what was arguably the worst cheap shot the NHL has ever seen.

Though he was clearly injured, he nevertheless played and the Isles then upset the heavily favoured Penguins before bowing out to the eventual Cup winners in Montreal. Looking at his numbers he never again came close to that production after the hit. For the playoffs that season he still recorded 13 points in 11 games, 6 of them goals.

True he may have become a perimeter player more content to set up others, but in his time he was dangerous and he was clutch (he is nearly a point per game player in the playoffs) and teams had to try and defend him. And when they did he was a good enough passer to hurt the opposition anyway. (He turned Scott Young intoa 40 goal scorer. Scott Freakin' Young!) Something that cannot be said for Verbeek or Andreychuk.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Andreychuk and Turgeon by far for me. Robitaille is up there as well.

 

[dru]

Andreychuk and Turgeon by far for me.

I agree and I think Turgeon takes it by a hair because he lost the 1982 Little League World Series.

 

[Famous Flames]

Andreychuk and Turgeon by far for me. Robitaille is up there as well.

Agree on Andreychuk and Turgeon. Can't agree on Luc. He scored way too many beautiful goals.

 

[Everest]

Pat Verbeek scored 500 goals?

 

[GSK*]

The guy who said Maurice Richard I hope he was not serious.


I got to put Sundin.

 

[Cliff O Malley]

I can't believe no one said Trottier yet.

 

[Famous Flames]

I got to put Sundin.

Huh?

 

[BillD]

Really? Who had him in the top 10? Never saw him in THN's top 10. He might have been a top 10 scorer a few times, but as anyone who knows anything about hockey will tell you, there's more to hockey than just points, and top 10 scorer definitely doesn't mean a top 10 player.

Turgeon had the potential to be a centre in the Dale Hawerchuk/Denis Savard class - a highly skilled, gifted offensive centre who falls just outside of the top 100 players ever. But Turgeon was soft, inconsistent, and for much of his career, ineffective. He often failed to deliver in the playoffs. Comparisons to Turgeon are often not meant as a compliment, and reserved for highly skilled centres with little in the way of consistency or guile.

Turgeon would be my pick from this list. If Petr Bondra gets those two more goals, he would supplant Turgeon. Worst player to ever lead the league in goals twice.

Whoever listed Rocket Richard should have his posting privleges revoked. Give that man a history of hockey lesson. Not only was the Rocket the first player to reach 500 goals (even though he played several seasons when goal scoring was under five per game), he's also the best clutch goal scorer to ever play the game. If I could have one forward, ever, for a Game 7 situation, it would be the Rocket

.

Verbeek's likely the least talented player, but he had all sorts of grit. Not an HHOFer, but I respect him. Ciccarelli was a force in front of the net, and wasn't afraid to be involved physically. Mullen had seven 40-goal seasons and was a first team all-star on a Cup champion. Gartner's nine 40-goal seasons are tied for the third most in league history. If I had to pick a No. 2, it would be Andreychuk - never regarded as one of the top 20-25 players in the league, but he was a force in front of the net, and an unforgettable leadership role in his final two seasons in Tampa.

As for Selanne: the guy's post-season record is, well, spotty to say the least. 49 points in 65 playoff games is completely unacceptable for a player of his calibre, even worse than the much-maligned post-season portfolio of Marcel Dionne. And as anyone who knows anything about SPORTS will tell you, it's playoffs that count. Regular season? That's just the qualifier, the dress rehearsal for the playoffs. Your ability to raise your performance in the time that matters the most is the first, foremost and truest sign of greatness, and that time that matters most is the Stanley Cup playoffs. The Stanley Cup playoffs are the ultimate test of a player, and of a team. Four best-of-sevens in a two month span? The greatest event in team sports. Selanne does have a reputation as a fader, and it's well deserved. He's not the worst on this list, but he's in the bottom tier.

jamiebez, I watched every minute of every game in the Vancouver/Winnipeg series in 1993. Selanne was far from the player he was during the regular season. Outside of Game 3, when he was the best player on the ice, he wasn't much of a factor.

Someone must be mistaking Henri for Rocket. Henri was pretty damn good in his own right, but not for this list.

 

[Claudio_Sanchez]

Selanne.

He lacks the sort of extra dimension to his game that Verbeek, Mullen and McDonald had.

All Selanne does great involves puck handling. Not to belittle it but he hasn't demonstrated excellence in checking or tenacity or work along the boards or in front of the net or leadership or in consistent clutch performances. I really like Selanne and think he is MORE talented offensively than many in the 500 club but in terms of who was "the worst player" in terms of what has been brought to the ice, he's borderline among that crew.

But the last two postseasons I've seen him were the two rounds he didn't score a thing in Colorado and the gawd awful first round exit of my beloved Sharks largely because then newly acquired Teemu couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. But ooohhhh look at him dance with the puck.

Let me put it this way... if Verbeek, Mullen and McDonald never scored a goal they'd exist in the NHL as role players. The fact that they scored 500 goals is a testament of how good and valuable they were as players on a team. Selanne without scoring would be a joke and on his way back to Jokerit.

let me tear this post apart. Selanne, in the last two years has been more complete of a player than ever before. He was a +28 last year and is on pace for +40 at least this year. that's not one dimensional. selanne is one of the fastest skaters in the league and has great hands, he get's a lot of his goals in front of the net and *** are you talking about saying he's not a great leader. he is the MODEL professional athlete in all of sports. you can't judge him off his years in san jose because those were the years his knee was almost ending his career.

 

[GentlemanOfLeisure]

Jarri Kurri. I could have scored 400 goals playing with Gretzky and Messier.

 

[canucksfan]

I can't believe no one said Trottier yet.

Bryan Trottier is a top 15 forward of all time so that's why no one has said Bryan Trottier.

 

[GSK*]

Someone must be mistaking Henri for Rocket. Henri was pretty damn good in his own right, but not for this list.

Henri doesn't have 500 goals, thats why he's not on this list.

Anyway the guys who've say that is just haters... I don't know why they have name a trophy Maurice Richard for the best goals scorer in a season if he's the worst of the 500 list.

Richard IMO is the best goal scorer of that list, he was clutch like no one, a true warrior.

The worst isn't Sundin (i was joking BTW Famous Flames), my anwser is Pat Verbeek or Turgeon. Turgeon is first of all a great playmaker and a skilled foward. But after late 97 and early 00, that was hard to him to score 30 goals, but he was putting 40-50 assists again,.

 

[Bluesfan1981]

Jarri Kurri. I could have scored 400 goals playing with Gretzky and Messier.

 

[hockey-fan]

Interesting question - nobody scores 500 goals by accident and it's clearly an achievement, so in part the question is who on the list is the biggest over-achiever. There's also the element of "help" as in Bobby Orr banking in God-knows how many pucks off Phil Esposito's stick resulting in Espo goals while Espo was simply squatting in the crease ( no offense there Phil ). All that aside and even though I liked Pat Verbeek as a Ranger, he gets my nod. I would add Luc Robitaile as being the worst highly-placed player on that list....

 

[Mogo]

Selänne...

 

[tom_servo]

You remember Turgeon the way he has been the last 5 years. He was a top 10 player for many, many years during his prime.

Please cite all the years in which Turgeon was a top 10 player, besides '93.

 

[Your old Jofa helmet]

Easlily Selanne

 

[someguy44]

Dave Andreychuk is by far the worst of the bunch.

His reputation as a player really skyrocketed on the Lightning, but for most of his career he was a lumbering guy who just put a lot of garbage goals in the net. He scored 50 goals when he was with the Sabres and Leafs but it was because he played with Lafontaine and Gilmour. He was never a guy who could get things going himself. Dave Andreychuk couldn't even skate backwards.

I was thinking of the same thing when I saw the thread title. Andreychuk scored so many garbage goals in front of the net and a lot of them were on the PP too.

 

[melubsdonna]

Niewendyk?

 

[Stephen]

Niewendyk?

Are you joking?