TSN: The value of a forward with net-front presence

[Church]

http://www.tsn.ca/the-value-of-a-forward-with-net-front-presence-1.526616

"Let’s look at rebound leaders on a per-60 basis over the last four seasons, and we’ll do so in both game states – 5-on-5, where players spend most of their time, and 5-on-4, where players score the highest frequency of goals. Rebounds are measured as any instance in which a shot is taken just seconds after a preceding shot was attempted by the same team with no other intervening play-by-play event."

I expected to see Gallagher on top of both lists but Pacioretty is a nice surprise! We're not that bad of a team in front of the net!

Click to read more...

 

[OnTheRun]

I expected to see Gallagher on top of both lists but Pacioretty is a nice surprise! We're not that bad of a team in front of the net!

Not that bad? The bulk of our offensive game rely on shooting from all angle and get the rebound to score goals, we use that freaking strat on the PP as well ffs. We are awful at it btw.

 

[Belial]

Not that bad? The bulk of our offensive game rely on shooting from all angle and get the rebound to score goals, we use that freaking strat on the PP as well ffs. We are awful at it btw.

Is there any positive thing about this club for you?

No matter what is being reported , it's always ridiculed to make it sound bad and to take a shot towards management, coaching and so on...

What's wrong in scoring goals on rebounds for god sake?

 

[waffledave]

Is there any positive thing about this club for you?

No matter what is being reported , it's always ridiculed to make it sound bad and to take a shot towards management, coaching and so on...

What's wrong in scoring goals on rebounds for god sake?

That's because management, coaching, the system, and the way the team is built are all ****ing horrible.

Are we supposed to be sheep and smile and pretend that Bergevin and Therrien are competent, good hockey executives?

I am positive about the things that there are to be positive about. Montreal has the best goalie in the world.

 

[OnTheRun]

Is there any positive thing about this club for you?

No matter what is being reported , it's always ridiculed to make it sound bad and to take a shot towards management, coaching and so on...

What's wrong in scoring goals on rebounds for god sake?

Strawman much mate?

I said nothing remotely hinting that there was something wrong with scoring goals on rebounds.

I did evaluate our ability to score goals on rebound. That's 2 different things.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Is there any positive thing about this club for you?

No matter what is being reported , it's always ridiculed to make it sound bad and to take a shot towards management, coaching and so on...

What's wrong in scoring goals on rebounds for god sake?

Seriously. It's become ridiculous.

 

[habs03]

two guys that are very effective that might not be near the top of the list are Andre Shaw (mainly on the pp), and Patric Hornqvist.

 

[Belial]

Not that bad? The bulk of our offensive game rely on shooting from all angle and get the rebound to score goals, we use that freaking strat on the PP as well ffs. We are awful at it btw.

Strawman much mate?

I said nothing remotely hinting that there was something wrong with scoring goals on rebounds.

I did evaluate our ability to score goals on rebound. That's 2 different things.

From your first message it's kinda clear that you don't like the idea of trying to score goals on rebounds, and then you add that we're bad at doing this ...

All this under a post reporting that we have two players on our rooster being in the top of the list for rebounds in the league ...

Am I missing something here?

 

[Belial]

two guys that are very effective that might not be near the top of the list are Andre Shaw (mainly on the pp), and Patric Hornqvist.

Well Hornqvist is up there actually...

Shaw and even the young Carr is very good near the net , being able to find loose pucks and capitalize on them .

With Weber's shot and ability to actually get that puck to the net instead of hitting the boards behind or someone's legs , I am sure we will score even more goals on the rebounds.

 

[FireBurningBin]

This is impressive because we spend half the powerplay just trying to get into the zone.

 

[OnTheRun]

From your first message it's kinda clear that you don't like the idea of trying to score goals on rebounds, and then you add that we're bad at doing this ...

All this under a post reporting that we have two players on our rooster being in the top of the list for rebounds in the league ...

Am I missing something here?

I sure don't like the idea of building strategy around aspect of the game you are not proficient at.

Sure you have 2 players at the top of the Rebounds/60 list... on a team who finished 29th in goal scored for the last 56 games of the season. As a team, we're not good at it. This was a massive failure of a strategy to generate offense.

 

[Belial]

This is impressive because we spend half the powerplay just trying to get into the zone.

Thank god we had one of the best PMD on our rooster to be able to help us enter the zone ...

Now that he's gone clearly we're not even gonna be able to get out of our zone .

 

[OldCraig71]

This is impressive because we spend half the powerplay just trying to get into the zone.

We are often much more impressive on the Pk because it's the only part of the "system" that allows our players to actually skate. Pacioretty and plekanec play their best hockey on the penalty kill. Bad coaching can do as much to alter a team as good coaching can elevate it and that is where we are with Therrien. To make matters worse, we just got rid of two really good puck possession players so I see more dump and chase on the way.

 

[Belial]

I sure don't like the idea of building strategy around aspect of the game you are not proficient at.

Sure you have 2 players at the top of the Rebounds/60 list... on a team who finished 29th in goal scored for the last 56 games of the season. As a team, we're not good at it. This was a massive failure of a strategy to generate offense.

There's a list telling you that we have one of the best player in the league for getting rebounds and you tell me that we're not good at it ... I just can't...

And then you bring up just 56 games of a 82 games season because it fits better your so called argument while completely omitting the fact that our best player in getting those rebounds was injured almost for the entire season ?

 

[OnTheRun]

There's a list telling you that we have one of the best player in the league for getting rebounds and you tell me that we're not good at it ... I just can't...

And then you bring up just 56 games of a 82 games season because it fits better your so called argument while completely omitting the fact that our best player in getting those rebounds was injured almost for the entire season ?

Of course... you just can't...

Having one of the best player in league at doing X doesn't mean your TEAM is good at doing X. (We are not the fastest team in the NHL because Byron skates fast, just so you know.)

Gallagher played 53 games, this is nowhere near " injured for almost the entire season".

56 games, since you seems to be proportion challenged, represent close to 70% of a season (68.29%).

 

[lo striver]

I wonder how other Habs forwards rank. After all da system is to get da puck to da net and to get da rebound, right.

 

[Belial]

Of course... you just can't...

Having one of the best player in league at doing X doesn't mean your TEAM is good at doing X. (We are not the fastest team in the NHL because Byron skates fast, just so you know.)

Gallagher played 53 games, this is nowhere near " injured for almost the entire season".

56 games, since you seems to be proportion challenged, represent close to 70% of a season (68.29%).

Ok , so what's the logic behind? To be able to use the rebound strategy you have to have a full roster of net crushers? To be able to use speed as a tactic you need a full roster of Byron's?

Gallagher is good in front of the net and MT is an idiot because he tries to maximize his ability of being first on the loose puck and deflect pucks by asking the other guys on the ice to shot the puck to the net?

I'm sure it was not even the OP intend to create a Gallagher and rebound strategy discussion.

It was more a jab to people who always say that Casparetty is never paying the price and always avoids the smallest contact and is not willing to get his nose dirty to go fight in the crease for rebounds but just floats around all the time.

Isn't it surprising for you that he is up there in that list?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I think the one who has difficulties understanding here is not me .

There's a list telling you that we have one of the best player in the league for getting rebounds and you tell me that we're not good at it ... I just can't...

And then you bring up just 56 games of a 82 games season because it fits better your so called argument while completely omitting the fact that our best player in getting those rebounds was injured almost for the entire season ?

That sentence right there shows just what he was saying. You have a hard time understanding. 1st- He didn't say we were bad at getting rebounds, if you read carefully, he speaking about scoring GOALS on rebouds.

That sentence also holds the primary reason why you don't get it either. It's pretty obvious that if a system is predicated on shooting from anywhere (puck at da net) and getting the rebounds, big surprise, you're gonna get more rebounds than teams that have different strategies and have a player that leads in that category. Same goes for the dumb n chase. No wonder our best 6 dmen were all in the top 60 for giveaways among 230 players last season. When the strategy is to drive the puck off the glass, you're gonna have more giveaways.

You say that it's gotten ridiculous how we criticize every single thing management does, and to you it's ridiculous. But hey go take a long hard look at your posts, as yuo defend every single thing that gets criticized, and that's as much ridiculous.

 

[Belial]

I wonder how other Habs forwards rank. After all da system is to get da puck to da net and to get da rebound, right.

Isn't this good coaching ? Trying to exploit you players best qualities? Maybe they should try Gallagher on the point during PP , it would definitely be a better strategy...

 

[Bergevillain]

Gallagher has one of the best contracts in the league T/F?

 

[Belial]

That sentence right there shows just what he was saying. You have a hard time understanding. 1st- He didn't say we were bad at getting rebounds, if you read carefully, he speaking about scoring GOALS on rebouds.

That sentence also holds the primary reason why you don't get it either. It's pretty obvious that if a system is predicated on shooting from anywhere (puck at da net) and getting the rebounds, big surprise, you're gonna get more rebounds than teams that have different strategies and have a player that leads in that category. Same goes for the dumb n chase. No wonder our best 6 dmen were all in the top 60 for giveaways among 230 players last season. When the strategy is to drive the puck off the glass, you're gonna have more giveaways.

You say that it's gotten ridiculous how we criticize every single thing management does, and to you it's ridiculous. But hey go take a long hard look at your posts, as yuo defend every single thing that gets criticized, and that's as much ridiculous.

What exactly am I trying to defend right now? That the coach wants pucks at the net because we have maybe the best player in the league in front of the net?

This has to be defended now?

 

[OnTheRun]

Ok , so what's the logic behind? To be able to use the rebound strategy you have to have a full roster of net crushers? To be able to use speed as a tactic you need a full roster of Byron's?

Gallagher is good in front of the net and MT is an idiot because he tries to maximize his ability of being first on the loose puck and deflect pucks by asking the other guys on the ice to shot the puck to the net?

At best it should be at a per line basis, not forcing the ENTIRE team to go out of their way to shot from all angle to get rebounds.

It didn't works for us and that much is pretty clear. This is one of Therrien biggest flaw, on a strategical level he is overly simplistic.

I'm sure it was not even the OP intend to create a Gallagher and rebound strategy discussion.

It was more a jab to people who always say that Casparetty is never paying the price and always avoids the smallest contact and is not willing to get his nose dirty to go fight in the crease for rebounds but just floats around all the time.

Isn't it surprising for you that he is up there in that list?

No I'm not surprised to see Pacioretty there (I would be if he had played the entire year with DD). And I'm also not surprised by his absence in the PP table...because of our strats. We have 1 forward in front of the net and the 2 others are mere puck retrieving drones and their main purpose is to send the puck back to the blue line to "reset/redo" the play.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Ok , so what's the logic behind? To be able to use the rebound strategy you have to have a full roster of net crushers? To be able to use speed as a tactic you need a full roster of Byron's?

Gallagher is good in front of the net and MT is an idiot because he tries to maximize his ability of being first on the loose puck and deflect pucks by asking the other guys on the ice to shot the puck to the net?

I'm sure it was not even the OP intend to create a Gallagher and rebound strategy discussion.

It was more a jab to people who always say that Casparetty is never paying the price and always avoids the smallest contact and is not willing to get his nose dirty to go fight in the crease for rebounds but just floats around all the time.

Isn't it surprising for you that he is up there in that list?

Fact: We appear to be good at scoring goals off of rebounds
Fact: Despite the above, we score very few goals

Hypothesis : we suck at every other aspect of scoring goals ?
Hypothesis : our insistence on trying to generate rebounds is overall counterproductive to scoring goals as a whole but indeed maximizes our ability at scoring goals off of rebounds

I think we're good at an aspect of the game that can't be reliably controlled to generate lots of goals.

 

[Hackett]

I totally get Gallagher being among the top, but im also surprised to see pacioretty up there. Is he getting long rebounds or something because I don't see him as a guy living on loose pucks around the net.

In think of him as more of the 1st shot guy.

 

[waffledave]

What exactly am I trying to defend right now? That the coach wants pucks at the net because we have maybe the best player in the league in front of the net?

This has to be defended now?

It's the other way around dude.