The Utica Comets Thread

[denkiteki]

Player Development - Can anyone demonstrate a team that has done a better job of player development over the past 5 or 6 years than the Tampa Bay Lightning? And with the Lightning the AHL farm team is an instrumental part of that development system. Sure there have been one or two players that have bypassed the farm such as Brayden Point and Mikhail Sergachov being the most recent examples but the quality of the list of players that did start their pro careers on the farm is undeniable and highlighted above in the Brisebois quote. In a comparison who exactly has the Vancouver Canucks developed over the same time frame in their AHL system? Brendan Gaunce, Jacob Markstrom, Jake Viirtanen, previous AHL lifer Alex Biega. It's not a very extensive list and the Canucks continue to allow their player development to be "outsourced" instead of taking control of it as seen with the recent example of allowing Dahlen to go back to Sweden instead of playing in the AHL.

Actually decided to take a detailed look @ Tampa's roster...

In order of scoring
Kurcherov - 17 AHL games
Stamkos - 0 AHL games
Namestnikov - > 100 AHL games
Point - 9 AHL games
Sergachev - 0 AHL games

Goude - > 100 AHL games but note he also cleared waivers AND wasn't productive in the NHL till this season (basically someone who developed but was passed on multiple times)
Palat - 117 AHL games
Hedman - 0 AHL games
Killorn - 54 AHL games (note really just 1/2 a season, 10 of those games came after his NCAA career/end of year)
Johnson - > 100 AHL games (undrafted)

Dotchin also played 2.5 seasons (defensive D so scoring doesn't reflect his value)
Paquette played 75 games if you want to count him

Thats better than 'nucks/Comets but also note that 4 of Tampa's top 5 scorers did NOT spend much/any time in the AHL. Again shows that although the AHL is a valid path, its not the only path and AHL success might not actually matter much. You take out those 4 players and Tampa is fighting for the 1st overall pick. Basically their development (or successful development) is really more for support players.

The other thing to note is since winning the cup, the lightnings have actually missed the playoffs in 6 of the last 10 years (tho made it in 3 of the last 4, and they made it the first 2 after winning the cup). Missing the playoffs does often help build up a teams prospect pool (like 'nucks despite Benning not willing to be sellers). Of course their market is also different than a Canadian market due to the simple fact you get easily get away with rebuilding (yet in a Canadian market, due to the media influence, rebuilding is generally avoids... i.e. look at Flames and 'nucks trying to retool).

 

[tyhee]

...

As far as C depth, you're right to a degree... it would be great to have more depth there but also remember it takes 2 to sign a contract. We did try to sign Kerfoot (with pretty much everyone else except Vanek signed) but of course he went elsewhere. Its possible we went after other lower profile centers and failed. Part of the lack of C issue is the fact that most of our C (and again our drafting) prospects are playing elsewhere. ...

In view of the failure to sign Curtis Valk, it is hard to imagine the Canucks' braintrust was placing any emphasis on signing non-veteran (per AHL rules) playmaking centres to play in Utica. It takes two to sign a contract, but if the Canucks had offered Valk a 2-way contract last spring, before he hit free agency July 1, it is really hard to imagine he'd have turned it down.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Cull confirmed it last night during his post game interview. But to be fair the Comets aren't allowed to officially mention it until Vancouver announces it and they waited a day so that the waiver exempt clock on Chaput doesn't start ticking until the next day.

Roger that on Chaput.

 

[denkiteki]

In view of the failure to sign Curtis Valk, it is hard to imagine the Canucks' braintrust was placing any emphasis on signing non-veteran (per AHL rules) playmaking centres to play in Utica. It takes two to sign a contract, but if the Canucks had offered Valk a 2-way contract last spring, before he hit free agency July 1, it is really hard to imagine he'd have turned it down.

I agree with that but the numbers also made it tough to offer him a contract. We were at 47 or so after signings in July 1st and im sure that was planned. We also saved spot for someone like Kerfoot (and i guess Vanek). Like i said i would take Valk over Megna and i never agreed with the Megna signing.

The only real reason for it was expansion draft but Chaput also filled that 2nd forward exposed requirement if we signed him to a contract (when we signed Megna).

Kerfoot really was the only non vet center we went after and based on his play this year, it would be hard to imagine him being in the AHL. So you are right that Benning didnt focus on the AHL roster all thst much and likely decided to delegate the task. That also likely meant no NHL contract would be spent for AHLer (like Archibald only got a minor league deal). That makes it a lot harder to sign players when most non-vet players (who are good) probably want their ELC out of the way using whatever leverage they have. So you are really stuck with players with less leverage (or unlikely to fill that play making center void). Basically players like Darcy.

 

[Bad Goalie]

For anyone who is interested I completed my post on the Syracuse Crunch and how Tampa Bay has a philosophy of having a winning AHL team and believes in building it's own team through the draft and developing the prospects on the farm and how they have done just that and are continuing to do so.

Post #362

 

[Askel]

Benning could have qualified Valk, finding an AHL center isn't that hard. There were no center prospects coming to Utica this year instead of signing so many wingers (Megna,Archibald,Rodin,Boucher) we could have given some tweener a one way deal, people go where the money is. Instead of spending almost 2 million on one-way deals for wingers playing in the Ahl (less now that Rodin is gone), the Canucks should have gone after center, especially since McEwen is played as a winger (the one center prospect in Utica)

Another center or two down in Utica would have given or wing prospects some stability . This is on Benning and Johnson, they need to get better at this. Saying that it takes 2 to sign a contract is weak, its Bennings freaking job to create depth in the organisation so that the prospects have a chance to develop.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Jordan Subban to LA for Nic Dowd.

Had to know that rebuilding Benning would have to get another veteran center to replace Horvat. Does that mean the Comets at least get Chaput back?
They can keep him as the roster numbers would stillallow it.

Jordan Subban was obviously out of the Vancouver plan. However this another typical Benning trade. Send a Comet traveling for a Vancouver player and get nothing back for the farm a la Shinkaruk, Jensen, and now Subban.

The Comets D-corps is gutted already and now another top is gone period to be added to McEneny. Sifers broken wrist and Holm concussion. My guess after watching him go down with a massive shoulder hit to his upper chest chin area snapping his head into the middle of his back (exaggeration, but it really snapped back) and then smashing the back of his head onto the ice snapping his head in the opposite direction. His brain was smacked around inside his skull cavity like the proverbial BB in a box car.

So:
Subban - gone forever
McEneny - gone for the season
Sifers - gone until the broken wrist heals and rehab puts him back in the lineup
Holm - gone until he can stand in the light and make quick movements, and handle the horrendously loud speaker system in the Aud.

What's left?
Wiercioch - rock solid
Sautner - holding his own
Brisebois and Chatfield - rookies having their problems
Cederholm -ECHL level
Watson - rookie PTO yet to be seen on loan from the ECHL Utah grizzlies with a grand total of 21 ECHL GP under his belt.
Stewart who proved Wednesday he belongs nowhere near an AHL building.

Oh, and Chaput's replacement was Idaho Steelheads ECHL loaner Brady Brassart. He was no better than Cassels if even as good.

All things perfect when Sutter and Horvat return that's 14 forwards. Already 7 D on the roster and Gud makes 8.

Someone else comes down. Who?

 

[UticaHockey]

Jordan Subban to LA for Nic Dowd.

Had to know that rebuilding Benning would have to get another veteran center to replace Horvat. Does that mean the Comets at least get Chaput back?
They can keep him as the roster numbers would stillallow it.

Jordan Subban was obviously out of the Vancouver plan. However this another typical Benning trade. Send a Comet traveling for a Vancouver player and get nothing back for the farm a la Shinkaruk, Jensen, and now Subban.

The Comets D-corps is gutted already and now another top is gone period to be added to McEneny. Sifers broken wrist and Holm concussion. My guess after watching him go down with a massive shoulder hit to his upper chest chin area snapping his head into the middle of his back (exaggeration, but it really snapped back) and then smashing the back of his head onto the ice snapping his head in the opposite direction. His brain was smacked around inside his skull cavity like the proverbial BB in a box car.

So:
Subban - gone forever
McEneny - gone for the season
Sifers - gone until the broken wrist heals and rehab puts him back in the lineup
Holm - gone until he can stand in the light and make quick movements, and handle the horrendously loud speaker system in the Aud.

What's left?
Wiercioch - rock solid
Sautner - holding his own
Brisebois and Chatfield - rookies having their problems
Cederholm -ECHL level
Watson - rookie PTO yet to be seen on loan from the ECHL Utah grizzlies with a grand total of 21 ECHL GP under his belt.
Stewart who proved Wednesday he belongs nowhere near an AHL building.

Oh, and Chaput's replacement was Idaho Steelheads ECHL loaner Brady Brassart. He was no better than Cassels if even as good.

All things perfect when Sutter and Horvat return that's 14 forwards. Already 7 D on the roster and Gud makes 8.

Someone else comes down. Who?

Actually Nic Dowd is not an AHL veteran but is waiver eligible. It's a little late but they did address the lack of depth somewhat at center and Subban was destined to be traded at some point this season. Providing there are no further injuries Dowd should push Chaput back down sooner than he would have if the trade didn't happen.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

Rick Dhaliwal‏ @DhaliwalSports 7h7 hours ago
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Just talked to Jordan Subban about being traded by the #Canucks, "I didn't hear about it, I saw it on my phone when I woke up this morning and a bunch of twitter messages."
7 replies 18 retweets 39 likes
Reply 7
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Like 39
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[go comets]

Perhaps communicating management's goals for young players to aid in their development, the primary reason for the Utica Comets to exist.

Yup ... Ryan Johnson is right on top of things as usual... Can't even notify a player that he has been traded!!!!! Effing clown should be fired immediately if not sooner......

 

[JUMBOcanuck]

Yup ... Ryan Johnson is right on top of things as usual... Can't even notify a player that he has been traded!!!!! Effing clown should be fired immediately if not sooner......

While I understand why you would think Ryan Johnson or Jim Benning would make the call... why didn't his agent call him? Or someone from the Kings? I'm not sure this is as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.

 

[Guardian452]

Trade was made late at night on the west coast, probably like 1 or 2 in the morning in Utica. I doubt Johnson knew about the trade. And I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that the management of the teams involved would wait until the morning to make phone calls.

 

[Bad Goalie]

A trade should never be announced until the parties involved have been notified. It's the most respectful way to do things.The players deserve at least that much. Anything short of that is bush league all the way.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Actually Nic Dowd is not an AHL veteran but is waiver eligible. It's a little late but they did address the lack of depth somewhat at center and Subban was destined to be traded at some point this season. Providing there are no further injuries Dowd should push Chaput back down sooner than he would have if the trade didn't happen.

Chaput's return should occur but it doesn't have to. I have already stated on the trade thread that the Canucks will have 14 forwards with both Chaput and Dowd. They only have 7 healthy D-men. That's 21 and they are still fine.

When Sutter returns they have to ship one down and that will be Chaput if not sooner. So the Canucks help the Comets by giving them back what they already had? That's not help from the trade. There is no actual help until another forward is sent down and the only guy guaranteed not to have to get through waivers is Jake and that's not happening so Dowd or Burmistrov get waived and then the Comets get him unless he is taken. If he's claimed the Comets/Canucks lost Jordan Subban for absolutely nothing. Etem 201.

How does Dowd even remotely replace Bo Horvat? This trade does very little for the Canucks. A trade for a center like Valk for the Comets in exchange for Jordan was the better move. The Canucks select a guy off waiver to help them trade water. That's all Dowd is going to do.

If Utica does get him, it will be February. Where will the Comets be by then based on the lineup they are currently icing + Chaput?

Biinghamton just acquired Spencer Abbott from the San Diego Gulls for future considerations. Sounds like the Fox trade, Huh? Not quite. Abbott was currently the Gulls leading scorer. See Johnson could make these kind of deals if he got his head out of his ***. Of course that is predicated upon the fact that he actually has GM authority granted from Vancouver. Based on everything that has occurred in Utica this season I don't believe he has. If he does, he is the dumbest first year GM ever to come down the pike.

Speaking of Fox. What has Benning received in way of those future considerations from Carolina in the Fox deal.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Actually Nic Dowd is not an AHL veteran but is waiver eligible. It's a little late but they did address the lack of depth somewhat at center and Subban was destined to be traded at some point this season. Providing there are no further injuries Dowd should push Chaput back down sooner than he would have if the trade didn't happen.

I know he's not a vet and don't think I said he was. "go comets" did though.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Demko returned from his coast to coast plane rides. Cap space issue resolved once again.

Chaput is the next to be expected, but when?

 

[denkiteki]

How does Dowd even remotely replace Bo Horvat? This trade does very little for the Canucks. A trade for a center like Valk for the Comets in exchange for Jordan was the better move. The Canucks select a guy off waiver to help them trade water. That's all Dowd is going to do.

If Utica does get him, it will be February. Where will the Comets be by then based on the lineup they are currently icing + Chaput?

Biinghamton just acquired Spencer Abbott from the San Diego Gulls for future considerations. Sounds like the Fox trade, Huh? Not quite. Abbott was currently the Gulls leading scorer. See Johnson could make these kind of deals if he got his head out of his ***. Of course that is predicated upon the fact that he actually has GM authority granted from Vancouver. Based on everything that has occurred in Utica this season I don't believe he has. If he does, he is the dumbest first year GM ever to come down the pike.

Speaking of Fox. What has Benning received in way of those future considerations from Carolina in the Fox deal.

Valk would be a better move for the Comets, you're right about that but he wouldn't be a better move for the 'nucks. Valk would be farther back on the depth chart for 'nucks who i guess want another center added to their depth chart. I don't actually like the trade but Dowd holds more value for 'nucks than Valk due to the simple fact he is more likely to play a game this season over Valk. Neither really hold a lot of long term value (nor did Subban like i said before, he needs to clear waivers next year so his actual trade value isn't really that high... like i said recently in another thread and predicted he would be moved for basically next to nothing as our next move... of course that was before Horvat got hurt and i just picked a random depth D from Vegas). Plus would Florida even do this trade anyways? Beside UticaHockey (i think) suggesting it in another thread, i haven't heard any rumors of it so although you might like that trade, Florida might not.

As far as the Abbott trade goes, there could be more to it (no idea just a guess)... maybe Spencer Abbott wanted to be closer to home (or his hometown)? Maybe he requested to be traded? Its easy to be an armchair GM but making a trade isn't exact as easy as "hey i want this player, i'll give you future considerations for him". If it was, we should be asking for Bourque and Varone already...

Future considerations generally means next to nothing. It might be a player but most of the time its probably nothing or say an expiring contract. In other sports it could be a small amount of cash (baseball, basketball, etc) tho not sure if thats allowed in hockey (NHL/AHL).

 

[Askel]

Valk was Vancouver property, I just wanted to re-sign him over Megna. Not trade for him. Dowd is probably a NHL player who won't help Utica except for the fact that Chaput comes back. Utica desperately needs another Center to be even close to competitive, with This injury to McEneny/Holm they might need another D-man to.

 

[go comets]

I know he's not a vet and don't think I said he was. "go comets" did though.

Yes that was me assuming that a 27 year old would have enough games at that age..... But I did see he was a Hobey Baler finalist.... And a all star in college. Do there is an upside there.... Sounds like two players that both needed a change.......

 

[Bad Goalie]

Valk was Vancouver property, I just wanted to re-sign him over Megna. Not trade for him. Dowd is probably a NHL player who won't help Utica except for the fact that Chaput comes back. Utica desperately needs another Center to be even close to competitive, with This injury to McEneny/Holm they might need another D-man to.

I beg to differ with you, but Valk was a Utica AHL signing and that means he was not "Vancouver property". Vancouver may have requested and even orchestrated such a signing, but that does not make the player Vancouver's. Can't be their property unless they sign him. For the Canucks to call up a player on an AHL contract they first have to sign him to an NHL contract. 2-way is fine, but it must be an NHL contract.

Though it doesn't happen, a player on an AHL contract is free to sign with other NHL teams if the AHL team is willing to release the player from the contract.

 

[Bad Goalie]

12/9/17
Utica Comets (10-10-1-1) @ Providence Bruins 14-6-2-0) at 7:05 pm EST

Utica arrives in Providence with no word on the state of several injured Comets.
They played Syracuse on Wednesday with only one spare D due to the absence of:
McEneny - Left knee injured Nov. 15th. Was announced on Dec 4th that he underwent uccessful surgery and will be sidelined for 6 months - that's the season. It's the same knee he injured in 2012-13 and basically missed the entire season.
Sifers - Broken wrist/hand on Nov 18th and is out 4 to 6 weeks. The wrist is in a cast.
Holm - (they are calling it an upper body, but with what i witnessed I'd call that upper body his head - concussion until someone officially says it isn't) Return unknown
Subban - (upper body injury due to a slewfoot that cost the assailant 3 game suspension). He is now permanently missing as he was traded.

That left them with regulars:
Wiercioch/Chatfield
Sautner/Brisebois

Then Cull had 3 to choose from:
Cederholm - ECHL call-up
Stewart - ECHL call-up
Watson - ECHL loaner on a PTO from the Utah Grizzlies. He is fresh out 4 yrs at Michigan Tech and his pro career spans the 21 GP for the Grizzlies this year.

With the Loss of Chaput to Vancouver the Comets probably iced the weakest center foursome in the AHL:
Bancks between Boucher and MacEwen
Darcy between LaBate and Megna
That was the top 2 lines.

Then you had Cassels between D'Aoust and Carcone who were out for 3 goals against and spent most of the night just trying to keep get the puck out of their own zone.
and
Brassart between Molino and Moynihan at best an ECHL line, but they fared much better than the cassels line only surrendering 1 goal on the night

Not one of these lines managed a goal for. The comets Goal came on the penalty kill with Wiercioch potting a perfect pass from Megna on a short handed 2 on 1.

This isn't much different than when Chaput is here since centers checking line center Wacey Hamilton and free agent center Brendan Woods, both on AHL contracts, were still injured.

Archibald is still out with his surgically repaired facial fracture. He was injured Nov 8th, but his surgery wasn't performed until Nov.15 after which the prognosis was 4 to 6 weeks. I expect we don't see him in a game before Jan. 1st at the earliest.

We' ll find out in short order what the status of the players is for this weekend.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Hamilton and Woods are both in tonight.

Starting lineup:
Cassels/Hamilton/Carcone
Sautner/Brisebois
Demko

 

[Bad Goalie]

Forwards:
Cassels/Hamilton/Carcone Not sure who the center is. I would guess it's Hamilton if only for the fact he is stronger defensively in the middle where Cassels has been very weak.
Megna/Darcy/Boucher
LaBate/Woods/D'Aoust
Molino/Bancks/MacEwen

D-Pairs:
Sautner/Brisebois
Wiercioch/Chatfield
Cederholm/Watson

Goal - Demko

Scratches:
Injured-
Archibald - Skating, but not with the team. Maybe by Jan 1st.
Laplante - Still being assessed, not skating.
Sifers - Skating, but not with the team. Could be around the 1st of the year.
McEneny - Out for the season.
Holm - Week to week. Not skating.

Healthy:
Stewart
Moynihan
Brassart
What a weak list of healthy extras.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Comets to the PP with 10:38 to go in the first.

3/29 in last 8 games. PP still tied for 8th in the league based on the extremely hot start.

3/30

 

[Bad Goalie]

Molino/Cassels/D'Aoust line from Wednesday night has effectively been dissembled. Each sheltered on different lines. No way they could ever survive as a line as was evidenced by their disastrous night Wednesday.