The Top 31 Defensemen in the National Hockey League - #21

[Sojourn]

Yeah wow.

The Calgary Flames just invited Tanner Glass for a tryout. 98% of this forum thinks that's ****ing demented (and for good reason) but the genius professionals did it anyway.

Wow.

John Locke denounced Appeal to Authority in 1690, and people are still using on the internet in 2017.

...Do you realize what you just did?

Edit: ****! Whiskey beat me to it.

At any rate, I'd consider professional hockey coaches to be a valid source of authority here. An NHL coach has both the relevant expertise and qualifications.

 

[triggrman]

Yeah wow.

The Calgary Flames just invited Tanner Glass for a tryout. 98% of this forum thinks that's ****ing demented (and for good reason) but the genius professionals did it anyway.

Wow.

John Locke denounced Appeal to Authority in 1690, and people are still using on the internet in 2017.

Yeah man, I'm sure you know more than an NHL coach because you know corsi and stuff...

 

[Machinehead]

Are you using John Locke as an appeal to authority?

1690 was more my point, but very clever.

...Do you realize what you just did?

Edit: ****! Whiskey beat me to it.

At any rate, I'd consider professional hockey coaches to be a valid source of authority here. An NHL coach has both the relevant expertise and qualifications.

Ironic that you would appeal to coaches without fault considering that Carlye thinks Bieksa > Manson

 

[Sojourn]

Ironic that you would appeal to coaches without fault considering that Carlye thinks Bieksa > Manson

Except I haven't.

And the Bieksa > Manson argument is just weak, because Carlyle actually used Manson more at even strength and on the penalty kill. The only place he outright favored Bieksa was on the PP.

 

[Machinehead]

Maybe not you specifically, but Ducks fans constantly use coaches' opinions to defend Fowler and then at the same time cry about "oh boo hoo Carlyle Bieksa"

You can't have it both ways. Your coach is wrong or he isn't.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Maybe not you specifically, but Ducks fans constantly use coaches' opinions to defend Fowler and then at the same time cry about "oh boo hoo Carlyle Bieksa"

You can't have it both ways. Your coach is wrong or he isn't.

And why not?

 

[Sojourn]

Maybe not you specifically, but Ducks fans constantly use coaches' opinions to defend Fowler and then at the same time cry about "oh boo hoo Carlyle Bieksa"

You can't have it both ways. Your coach is wrong or he isn't.

And that's where you're wrong. It isn't all or nothing.

No expert, even one with years of experience, can be expected to get it right every time. You're dismissing an appeal to authority as outright fallacious, but that's a bunch of ********. People reference experts on a matter all the time. They seek out experts to become better informed, or as an alternative opinion when they are already informed.

The big issue with an appeal to authority is when it comes from a source that isn't an authority in a relevant way. Such as someone with a doctorate in, say, mechanical engineering being used as an authority in medicine. That's when it's a fallacy; not when it comes from a source that actually has the qualifications to make an informed decision.

This idea that coaches, ones with years of experience, are less capable of making an informed decision than you is both hilarious, and arrogant in ways that really suggest you need to take a long hard look at yourself. That's tantamount to watching movies of Bruce Lee and thinking you're suddenly an expert on martial arts.

 

[Machinehead]

Referencing experts isn't inherently terrible. Fair enough. But I have two issues...

1)If coaches aren't always right, then it's perfectly acceptable to dismiss their opinion.

2)Not everyone coaching in the NHL is an "authority." Some of them really are that bad to the point where I think some of the fans would make better lineup decisions. Pro sports is a very, very, very connections-based hiring environment. Merit is not necessarily there.

As far as thinking I know more than the coaches, personally I don't know why that's so shocking, as crazy as it sounds.

Form what I've heard, Girardi may get top 4 minutes in Tampa. Not only do I know that's a horrid idea, but 90% of Florida residents know that's a horrid idea. If Cooper does it anyway, then guess what? The fans knew better than the coach.

All of my friends in Buffalo knew Bylsma was horribly misusing just about everyone on their roster. Does Bylsma know more than them because he coaches professionally?

One of my favorite comedians once said: "I'm not a professional pilot, but if I see a helicopter in a tree, I know enough to say the professional pilot ****ed up."

I can't fly a helicopter nor could I successfully coach an NHL team, but I know when coaches are ****ing up.

 

[Joey Moss]

Hamilton has no business being voted this early. At least 5 defenseman that should be voted before him.

 

[Sojourn]

What are you credentials, Machinehead? The ability to log on to some websites and look at numbers? The fact you watch hockey? That's it, right? That's your expertise.

You're a fan of hockey, and statistics is a hobby for you. Right? You have no actual formal training, either in coaching, playing hockey, or statistics, correct? So you're an armchair general, and you think you know better than an actual general. Is it shocking? Yes, and no. It's shocking because you actually believe it, but it isn't because it's pretty common for people to overestimate their own expertise.

You lack both the formal training, and the practical experience. I wouldn't trust you to coach my nephew's peewee team.

 

[Machinehead]

What are you credentials, Machinehead? The ability to log on to some websites and look at numbers? The fact you watch hockey? That's it, right? That's your expertise.

You're a fan of hockey, and statistics is a hobby for you. Right? You have no actual formal training, either in coaching, playing hockey, or statistics, correct? So you're an armchair general, and you think you know better than an actual general. Is it shocking? Yes, and no. It's shocking because you actually believe it, but it isn't because it's pretty common for people to overestimate their own expertise.

You lack both the formal training, and the practical experience. I wouldn't trust you to coach my nephew's peewee team.

I lack the formal training to put together a system and teach players that system.

I don't think you need formal training to know that Girardi, Bieksa, Glass, Gorges, etc. should be nowhere near NHL ice, but the professionals don't seem to get that.