The Sky Is Falling!!!

[Duck Off]

Okay, so I'm just curious about everyone's state of mind, after the first 5 or so games of the new season. To be fair, the Ducks have played like crap, and against some fairly low teams at that.
There are a whole lot of negatives, and some positives. To summarize some:

• Injuries: The most glaringly obvious...Getzy, Eaves, Lindholm, Vatanen, Kase, Kesler, Miller...this list is bad enough as it is, but Gibby has already given us a minor scare with that warmups hand/wrist thing. I’m SURE we’ll be a better team once everyone is healthy (will everyone be healthy, ever???), but HOW much better?
• Stepping up: After game 1, Perry looks like he’s regressed to last-year Perry. Not good. Raks is okay, but not producing all that much. Silf isn’t producing. This is all to be expected, since they’re asked to carry a larger load since others are out, but sometimes when teams need heroes, some key players step up. Not here.
• Coaching: PP and PK aside, Carlyle is being normal Carlyle. 4th line = 5 min per game. Boll Ras Shaw Grant in the lineup, when Kerdiles, Roy, Kossila, and others are with the Gulls. Megna not working out? Why not get Larsson or Welinski up here for a couple just to see? (I didn’t check waiver status on all of them, so understood of some could be nabbed if we brought them up and tried to send them back down)
• Penalties: seriously, they’re going to learn sometime not to take stupid penalties, right? Right???

With these types of things in mind, do you see the ship righting as people get healthy? Or are you of a mind that all of the Ducks’ weaknesses are laid bare, and that perhaps our top players were covering up for major issues that our coaching and overall lineup have?

Most have already posted most of what I would say so I won't repeat all that. I'll reiterate that injuries have a lot to do with the start. The biggest worry for me, that's not Carlyle related, is mediocre performances by some guys that I expected to be better. Silfverberg and Ritchie come to mind. Need Montour to find more of an offensive game too.

Last thing I will add is that while I think this team healthy is a very good one; we're going to definitely need to add a top 6 forward (ideally someone capable of playing LW and C) before the deadline. For one, I think RC will want to keep Rakell at center, so LW is going to be pretty damn weak. Ideally said player can play center though. Another reason is because I think we should expect to be somewhat short handed when the playoffs start. Based on history, you have to figure you'll be without Eaves for several games. Then you've got 33 year old Kesler coming off major surgery. I think adding a top 6 LW/C is pretty vital for cup chances.

 

[AngelDuck]

Lindholm is the obvious one, but I think a guy like Vatanen's value is really being shown here. We have no one other than Fowler who has consistently proven they can skate the puck from the defensive zone into the offensive zone right now. Montour is inexperienced and playing with guys well past their prime...he needs to play better but he's also in a tough spot to succeed right now. That's never going to be Manson's game really. He's more of a shutdown guy who can skate decently well. Beauch, Bieksa, Megna, Holzer...forget about it.

Obviously this team has forward problems but only having one guy who can lug the puck up the ice from the backend is killing them.

This teams identity (if they have one) is having an extremely mobile defense that can escape pressure and transition into the other zones. Right now they don't have the horses to do that. Carlyle can talk all he wants about the identity being a heavy punishing forechecking game but it's not really. We're playing our best hockey when we have 5 defensemen in the lineup that can move and transition the puck

This is why I was surprised Larsson or Pettersson didn't make the team over Megna, not that the AHL is a bad place for either of them

 

[Mallard]

This.



If Carlyle wasn't our coach, then I'd agree. However, I can see Carlyle thinking it's fine to give Kesler even more minutes than last year when he gets back because he's "fresh". That's a big ****ing mistake IMO. Like you mentioned, the hip surgery worries me as well, even more so since we have to deal with RC and his stupid ass "do everything necessary to win each game" mentality.

Agreed. Look at Getz first game against the Flames this year. Obviously was not a 100% and his first game of the year... played over 25 mins and either got hurt again/aggregated his injury. Kes will be ridden extra hard when he is back.

 

[Elvs]

OOPS!!! Hahaha, my bad, I actually didn't watch most of last game (wife wanted me to sit outside with her and drink wine). In the end, that seems like it was the right decision.

Is it just me, or do most of our AHLers seem underwhelming? Is it almost time to give up hope for Kerdiles? At least we have future potential with Larsson, Steel, and Jones, but the rest of them seem like unrealized potential every time we bring them up. I also hoped Megna would be a nice surprise, but have been a bit disappointed so far.

I think it would be a little premature to give up on anyone at this point.

Kerdiles turns 24 in less than three months, but he's also had bad luck with injuries so if healthy there might still be untapped potential.

Kossila and Roy will turn 25 in april/may. At this age there's probably not much growth left for them to be made. But they've developed well in the minors and we should see them in the NHL before we write them off. Both are small, but Kossila might be versatile enough to find his niche in the NHL even if his offensive numbers won't translate.

These guys are our most NHL ready forward prospects atm. I expect all of them to end up playing in Europe soon enough though. I mean, you never know, but I'd see it as a bonus if either of these three carves out an NHL career.

I have bigger hopes for Nattinen and Sideroff, simply because they are younger and are still developing. They are not ready yet though. Neither are Jones or Steel, our most promising forward prospects by far. Though with all these injuries I think they should have been given a taste of the NHL to start the season, especially Jones who already has the speed and strenght for it.

 

[70sSanO]

Carlyle doesn't really have a choice. There are certain things he can do to overplay them a little less, but as long as so many key players are out he is going to need to lean on the remaining core players he has that can/should be expected to contribute.

With this roster, even Boudreau would probably be overplaying some of these guys, and he always wanted to roll his lines. This team is just missing too much talent to manage the ice time properly. Carlyle is overdoing it, in my opinion, and part of that is his stubborn desire to keep Boll in the line-up which forces him to keep the minutes down for that entire line, but even a better 4th line isn't going to fix that issue. Not completely.

My concern isn't now, but when everyone is healthy. Granted we had injuries last year in the WCF, but we also just ran out if gas. Johansen goes down and we just couldn't capitalize on it. Granted there were too many injuries to address, but it seemed the whole team just stopped.

Concerned that we will go in once again worn out.

John

 

[Sojourn]

My concern isn't now, but when everyone is healthy. Granted we had injuries last year in the WCF, but we also just ran out if gas. Johansen goes down and we just couldn't capitalize on it. Granted there were too many injuries to address, but it seemed the whole team just stopped.

Concerned that we will go in once again worn out.

John

I understand the concern, but what can Carlyle do about it now?

He still needs to try to win games. His best hope of accomplishing that is to overuse the players he needs to.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I understand the concern, but what can Carlyle do about it now?

He still needs to try to win games. His best hope of accomplishing that is to overuse the players he needs to.

He can cobble together a 4th line that can play minutes earlier in the game so that when he needs to ride the top 6 guys late in the game, they're not already over 20 minutes. He can sit Boll.

 

[gilfaizon]

He can cobble together a 4th line that can play minutes earlier in the game so that when he needs to ride the top 6 guys late in the game, they're not already over 20 minutes. He can sit Boll.

This. It would sure help in close games with good flow to have a 4th line that can play some minutes.

 

[Ducks in a row]

I wish our GM would waive Boll and sending him to the AHL when he clears forcing him out of our lineup.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

I don't get this thread.

Do the Ducks have alot of injuries? Yes they do

Bob knew Kesler would miss half the season, did he address the center position? No he did not he signed Rasmussen who at best is a 4th liner, and Grant who has never scored a goal and is an AHL player.

Have the Ducks iced the best available lineup? No they have not, now is the time to be getting looks at players like Kossila, but they intentionally put low skill players in attempts to not lose games. Any time Boll and Grant play you aren't icing your best team.

We are asking our best winger to be our no. 1 center because the organization mishandled the Getzlaf situation, the very first game he played the Calgary announcers were talking about how he looked injured still, and yet he was put in the lineup and wouldn't you know it a few days later he's out again because they didn't exercise the restraint to wait and that word, restraint i have brought up alot.

They did not manage Getz and Kesler well last year, they both ran out of gas and they are not going to age well if a strict plan is not put in place IRT their ice time and the difficult minutes they play. Randy knew about Keslers hip problem flaring up and he STILL did not ease the burden on him.


The other issue is why are we playing so many low skill dmen when we have Larsson and Pettersson? I'm not saying they are ready but you CANNOT ice these defensive lineups unless you have no choice but we do. They are willfully doing this, I don't get it.

The PP isn't going to get better until we get healthy but FFS zero goals Grant is getting time. Last game down a goal with the goalie pulled he was on the ice. Why does Randy have obsession with players like him and Shaw?

Players need to step up but you will not score goals with these centers and this defense, and to keep doing it makes no sense.

I blame Bob for most of it. The only thing I really take issue with Randy is player usage and always icing trash fourth lines.

 

[AngelDuck]

I think Carlyle has more of a say in who makes/doesn't make the team out of camp than you are stating. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he has as much of a say on that as Murray.

 

[Elvs]

I don't get this thread.

Do the Ducks have alot of injuries? Yes they do

Bob knew Kesler would miss half the season, did he address the center position? No he did not he signed Rasmussen who at best is a 4th liner, and Grant who has never scored a goal and is an AHL player.

The Ducks, even without Kesler, should be competitive. Murray did not account for the injuries of Getzlaf, Eaves, Ritchie or Kase. Add Kesler to the mix and that's half our top six/top nine missing.

And what's wrong with signing AHL players? Every team needs them in case of, you know, injuries? Unless you are implying they were signed to be everyday NHL players, which isn't true. It's quite obvious that a healthy Ducks team would keep a roster of 13 forwards and 8 defensemen. Frankly I don't think either Rasmussen or Grant would be up here if everyone was healthy, because that 13th forward is unfortunately going to be Boll.

Have the Ducks iced the best available lineup? No they have not, now is the time to be getting looks at players like Kossila, but they intentionally put low skill players in attempts to not lose games. Any time Boll and Grant play you aren't icing your best team.

It's funny how people keep saying this, and now the list is down to Kossila only. Earlier it was "we have better players like Kossila, Kerdiles and Fiore in the AHL!". Though I would defenitely like to see Kossila up with the big club right now.

We are asking our best winger to be our no. 1 center because the organization mishandled the Getzlaf situation, the very first game he played the Calgary announcers were talking about how he looked injured still, and yet he was put in the lineup and wouldn't you know it a few days later he's out again because they didn't exercise the restraint to wait and that word, restraint i have brought up alot.

The Rakell experiement isn't nearly as crazy as people make it out to be. I agree that he looks best playing LW, but people compare it to Bobby Ryan and are saying "How dumb are BM and RC for even thinking of this idea!?" Well actually, Rakell is a natural center. He's not just some random winger we are trying out in the middle. He was a center for most of his career growing up, and was converted to a full time winger in Anaheim. So what they are actually doing, is just trying him out on his original poisition.

The other issue is why are we playing so many low skill dmen when we have Larsson and Pettersson? I'm not saying they are ready but you CANNOT ice these defensive lineups unless you have no choice but we do. They are willfully doing this, I don't get it.

Larsson and, especially Pettersson, aren't exactly skilled D men either. Neither was on the top PP unit for team Sweden and the world juniors. Neither were playing big minutes in the SHL last year. Pettersson wasn't even a regular with Skelleftea, and I find it hard to believe that he would be an upgrade over any of our current defensemen.

The PP isn't going to get better until we get healthy but FFS zero goals Grant is getting time. Last game down a goal with the goalie pulled he was on the ice. Why does Randy have obsession with players like him and Shaw?

This is what I'm talking about, people ****ing about certain players no matter what. Apparently, the power play isn't working because of one player (Grant) on the second unit. Yet Grant, whenever he's had the puck on the PP, has never turned it over. Not to mention he had a rebound of the post and scored our only PP goal so far, but unfortunately it was disallowed.

But yeah, the PP sucking is his fault. It's not like our top unit can't even gain the offensive zone or anything...

 

[Elvs]

With all that said, now is a good time to evaluate the roster. All of Getzlaf, Eaves, Lindholm and Vatanen could be ready soon. I expect a couple of roster moves prior to the games on friday and tuesday.

 

[The Noot]

 

[Duck Off]

I don't get this thread.

Do the Ducks have alot of injuries? Yes they do

Bob knew Kesler would miss half the season, did he address the center position? No he did not he signed Rasmussen who at best is a 4th liner, and Grant who has never scored a goal and is an AHL player. .

I've been saying it for months now, I think it is clear that Carlyle wanted Rakell at center going into this season. I think the interest in Marleau was because he was capable at center (in case Rakell sucked), but he was definitely more of a LW. I think the issue is simply that we needed (still need) another top 6 forward badly. With Getzlaf's injury, it needs to be someone who can definitely play in the middle. It should have been someone who's capable of playing both wing and center anyway though.

Have the Ducks iced the best available lineup? No they have not, now is the time to be getting looks at players like Kossila, but they intentionally put low skill players in attempts to not lose games. Any time Boll and Grant play you aren't icing your best team..

Agreed about the forwards. I can't believe that we'll see all of Shaw, Boll, and Grant in the lineup and think about Bob not even bothering about any PTOs, when several guys on them this year were better than players we're currently icing.

We are asking our best winger to be our no. 1 center because the organization mishandled the Getzlaf situation, the very first game he played the Calgary announcers were talking about how he looked injured still, and yet he was put in the lineup and wouldn't you know it a few days later he's out again because they didn't exercise the restraint to wait and that word, restraint i have brought up alot. .

I don't think Rakell at center has anything to do with Getzlaf. He was still a center when Getzlaf played. This is just something we're going to have to deal with while RC is here. He thinks Rakell is a better center, and IMO, they (Murray and RC) have clearly planned on him being there this year since day 1 of this offseason. A big f***ing mistake, but it is what it is.

They did not manage Getz and Kesler well last year, they both ran out of gas and they are not going to age well if a strict plan is not put in place IRT their ice time and the difficult minutes they play. Randy knew about Keslers hip problem flaring up and he STILL did not ease the burden on him..

100% agree here. f*** Carlyle and his "do whatever I need to, to win each game mentality". This is exactly why I am nowhere near as confident as others that Kesler will be healthy come playoff time.

The other issue is why are we playing so many low skill dmen when we have Larsson and Pettersson? I'm not saying they are ready but you CANNOT ice these defensive lineups unless you have no choice but we do. They are willfully doing this, I don't get it. .

I disagree with you here. For one, I don't think Larsson and Pettersson are that skilled. Are they better than Bieksa, Holzer, and Megna? Probably, but I don't think our D is that much better if they're here. They don't want to lose Holzer or Megna to waivers so I don't blame them here.

The PP isn't going to get better until we get healthy but FFS zero goals Grant is getting time. Last game down a goal with the goalie pulled he was on the ice. Why does Randy have obsession with players like him and Shaw?.

Agreed. I said it in another thread. It's pretty telling when Grant is getting PP time. That's just sad. No idea what the obsession with Shaw is about either. Although he does look a little better this year than last year.

Players need to step up but you will not score goals with these centers and this defense, and to keep doing it makes no sense.

I blame Bob for most of it. The only thing I really take issue with Randy is player usage and always icing trash fourth lines.

I don't agree here. For one, I don't think having Larsson or Pettersson here makes THAT much difference. I also disagree about this being primarily on Bob. I'm not saying he's exempt from blame, but I definitely put this more on RC. The lineup card is definitely Carlyle's, and he's going to have a lot of say on who should and shouldn't be here. It's not smart to keep a young player up here if RC won't play them.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Has fallen, people... HAS.

 

[Arthuros]

If you think about it, the sky is ALWAYS falling.

 

[91Fedorov]

I don't get why people are hung up crapping on Grant so much. Shaw / Grant / Wagner looks like a pretty good 4th line. Grant is good on face offs, good at not giving the puck away, plays well defensively, plays on the PK and had a nice looking tip on the only goal this team has scored on the PP (the disallowed one, his 3rd). It's pretty silly to crap on a player that is doing that much for this team for 4th line money on top of it.

Now if you want to make an argument that he his cursed by voodoo, and will never score because of it, and you're too superstitious to overlook something like that..... that's at least more valid.

I also feel similarly about Shaw. He has looked like a solid 4th liner for us this year. Teams these days need 4th line guys, that play on the PK and that play for 4th line money to balance their budgets. It seems like some guys got so used to crapping on Shaw last year, that it's just a habit for them now.

 

[branmuffin17]

I don't get this thread.

If you think about it, the sky is ALWAYS falling.

That’s the point of this thread. I looked at all of the various threads, and though there were bitch sessions on individual players, as well as in the game threads, there didn’t seem to be one that targeted a look at all of the various issues. The point of the thread is to create discussion on the topic of the Ducks struggling as a whole. And I made that title as a semi-joke, because so many people make things so doom & gloom.

We are asking our best winger to be our no. 1 center

The Rakell experiement isn't nearly as crazy as people make it out to be. I agree that he looks best playing LW, but people compare it to Bobby Ryan and are saying "How dumb are BM and RC for even thinking of this idea!?" Well actually, Rakell is a natural center. He's not just some random winger we are trying out in the middle. He was a center for most of his career growing up, and was converted to a full time winger in Anaheim. So what they are actually doing, is just trying him out on his original poisition.

No, Rakell at center is not crazy, but people like KEEROLE make a fuss about this move very specifically because last year’s conversion of him to winger had a dramatic effect on goal output. So, even though he was a “natural” center, many value him significantly more for his ability to find the twine on the wing.
If we had more decent scoring wingers (or at least Perry had a true resurgence) then people might accept his move to center more, but as it is…neither side is going to be satisfied, because we’re shorthanded all over the place.

 

[Mallard]

Good points made all around but I don't think RC/BM will make any changes. I do think though that now would be a good time to give Kossila/Fiore/Roy an extended look while there are injuries. Doubt they are worse than Rasmussen/Boll and would actually have offensive upside. Not saying put all three in the lineup but at least one of them. Are a few rookie mistakes really going to affect our current record of 2-3-1? Doubtful?

I actually like Shaw and think he gets crapped on quite a bit, but he does what is expected of him and plays hard. I would love to see our fourth line be Wagner-Grant-Shaw when we are healthy and get at least 12mins a game.

 

[Duck Off]

I don't get why people are hung up crapping on Grant so much. Shaw / Grant / Wagner looks like a pretty good 4th line. Grant is good on face offs, good at not giving the puck away, plays well defensively, plays on the PK and had a nice looking tip on the only goal this team has scored on the PP (the disallowed one, his 3rd). It's pretty silly to crap on a player that is doing that much for this team for 4th line money on top of it. .

He's getting more crap than he should because he's someone who is ideally no higher than your 13th forward who plays on occasion. People get annoyed by his play on the ice sometimes, but the frustration is more to do with Caryle and his usage of him. I'm sorry, but he is a guy who should never see a second of PP time. The guy has never scored an NHL goal and he's getting a min and half game on the PP. Yes, I realize this is primarily due to injuries, but he's getting more PP time than he should, even with injuries.

I also feel similarly about Shaw. He has looked like a solid 4th liner for us this year. Teams these days need 4th line guys, that play on the PK and that play for 4th line money to balance their budgets. It seems like some guys got so used to crapping on Shaw last year, that it's just a habit for them now.

I said it another thread, but I'll repeat it here, Shaw looks better this than he did last year. However, he still isn't a very good player. Again though, this is more about usage. Let me give you some names: Silfverberg, Vermette, Grant, Rasmussen. These are just a few of the guys that Shaw is currently getting more PK time per game than. Silfverberg?!? that's a f***ing joke. I honestly don't think Shaw is that great on the PK. He's capable, but he isn't very good IMO. A complete joke that he's getting more PK time than some of these guys.

Basically the "crapping" on these guys that you're referring to that I generally hear on here is in the GDT. Saying a 4th line player isn't very good isn't inaccurate. Like you said, we shouldn't expect them to be that good. However when they're being given ice time, roles, etc. like they are, there's going to be more frustration with them.

 

[Duck Off]

I actually like Shaw and think he gets crapped on quite a bit, but he does what is expected of him and plays hard. I would love to see our fourth line be Wagner-Grant-Shaw when we are healthy and get at least 12mins a game.

It's rare to ever see a 4th line get 12 mins a game on any team. Even Bruce's 4th lines got around 9-10 mins. I'd be thrilled with that. However, this is Carlyle we're talking about. I get excited when I see them at 7 mins a game. He isn't going to sit Boll consistently though. Remember now... he's a deterrent.

 

[Elvs]

I said it another thread, but I'll repeat it here, Shaw looks better this than he did last year. However, he still isn't a very good player. Again though, this is more about usage. Let me give you some names: Silfverberg, Vermette, Grant, Rasmussen. These are just a few of the guys that Shaw is currently getting more PK time per game than. Silfverberg?!? that's a ****ing joke. I honestly don't think Shaw is that great on the PK. He's capable, but he isn't very good IMO. A complete joke that he's getting more PK time than some of these guys.

Silfverberg has been playing huge minutes without Getzlaf in the lineup. He's been playing 20+ minutes in three of the games, including 23+ minutes twice. Vermette played 20.35 against Buffalo. No need to play them anymore at this moment. I'm happy with RC using Shaw and Grant minutes on the PK right now. And our PK is currently ranked tied for 7th in the league, so it's a complete non issue.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Silfverberg has been playing huge minutes without Getzlaf in the lineup. He's been playing 20+ minutes in three of the games, including 23+ minutes twice. Vermette played 20.35 against Buffalo. No need to play them anymore at this moment. I'm happy with RC using Shaw and Grant minutes on the PK right now. And our PK is currently ranked tied for 7th in the league, so it's a complete non issue.

Tied for 7th at 82.8% is very good especially considering all our injuries. How anyone can complain about our PK with all our injuries I just can't understand.

 

[Mallard]

It's rare to ever see a 4th line get 12 mins a game on any team. Even Bruce's 4th lines got around 9-10 mins. I'd be thrilled with that. However, this is Carlyle we're talking about. I get excited when I see them at 7 mins a game. He isn't going to sit Boll consistently though. Remember now... he's a deterrent.

Absolutely agree with you. I'm saying what I want but I know it won't happen.

Even 9-10 mins would be great... double what they get now.