The Ryan Reaves Debate

[molon labe]

So I ask you whether any fighter or tough guy has actually gone and injured another teams star after having their own star injured and your response is to ask me if Crosby is the most target player? I don't think whether Crosby is targeted and not protected is the question. I'm not even asking whether Reaves is deterring it, that's at least a debate. Youre talking about intentionally injuring someone as a response which is a little disgusting to me. That's what I'm asking you, had that ever happened

Sort of - but not really?

I was trying to point out that statistics are difficult to dissect as are comparisons when you have very different variables. Rephrased - at what point in the salary cap era has there been a star as prominent as Sidney Crosby who was so blatantly head-hunted by select teams as he has been? There have been rivalries in the past, but many established journalists who defend enforcers like to point to the Sidney Crosby treatment for just how unique it is. There are proponents on both sides of course - and trying to turn this Ryan Reaves debate into simply two sides is not easy because the situation is unique. Reaves is not just a fighter or he wouldn't have been dressed regularly in St Louis under the highest winning coach in the NHL in the NHL's toughest (by far) division for years. Reaves also likes to point out he's only been suspended once in his career - a statistic not shared by most true enforcers... Yet Reaves is also quoted as saying he WILL take a run at a guy if Sid or Malkin or whomever on his team is cheap shotted. Whether it happens is truly a matter to be discussed later on.

Crosby is also not just a star but a figurehead of the entire league (or at least was for the better part of a decade). It's really tough to draw comparisons so I was simply making a statement regarding that very difficulty - while asking you if you can remember an honest comparable situation.

 

[Pens17]

Presence of tough guy Ryan Reaves changes tone of games for Penguins

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

What I want Reaves for (and what every Pens fan who was disgusted by the repeated, methodical attempts to injure Crosby by Staal, Dubinsky, Niskanen etc.) is exactly what happened to Dubinsky a couple weeks ago. He was being his usual piece of shit self, so Kassian dropped him with a shot that broke his orbital bone. Voila, problem solved.

It was glorious. It's just unfortunate that Reaves wasn't the one to do it.

Contrary to what some detractors apparently believe, that doesn't mean that our superstars won't ever take a cheap shot, or get in fights of their own accord. This literally happens to every NHLer. It just means that they won't be subjected to the repeated, methodical attempts to injure that nearly ended Sid's playoff run in the 2nd round last year.

 

[Tom Hanks]

What I want Reaves for (and what every Pens fan who was disgusted by the repeated, methodical attempts to injure Crosby by Staal, Dubinsky, Niskanen etc.) is exactly what happened to Dubinsky a couple weeks ago. He was being his usual piece of **** self, so Kassian dropped him with a shot that broke his orbital bone. Voila, problem solved.

It was glorious. It's just unfortunate that Reaves wasn't the one to do it.

Contrary to what some detractors apparently believe, that doesn't mean that our superstars won't ever take a cheap shot, or get in fights of their own accord. This literally happens to every NHLer. It just means that they won't be subjected to the repeated, methodical attempts to injure that nearly ended Sid's playoff run in the 2nd round last year.

I’m very sceptical that this will do anything to deter it in the playoffs.

Reaves being able to play well and be a positive is what I really care about.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I’m very sceptical that this will do anything to deter it in the playoffs.

Reaves being able to play well and be a positive is what I really care about.

A broken orbital bone will deter any person who has one from causing trouble in the playoffs. I'm exceptionally confident about that.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I think Reaves would play much better if we had a competent 4C like Cullen. It’s hard to play well when you are always playing in the defensive zone and you can’t hold the puck in the offensive zone because your 4C is really a 3C/4C from the AHL.

For people pissed regarding the salary of reaves you should be more upset about Hunwick. Hagelin and Hunwick would equal one high end player in salary. Their production per salary is awful.

 

[PensPlz]

To be fair - when Crosby and Malkin aren't in the top 20 in scoring, it's nice to have a guy like Reaves to cheer for when he punches someone.

 

[Tom Hanks]

A broken orbital bone will deter any person who has one from causing trouble in the playoffs. I'm exceptionally confident about that.

When did Reaves do that?

It’s the playoffs and Sid’s in a vulnerable position and in the split second the guy makes a choice to crush/injure him. They aren’t thinking about Reaves. They are thinking about the cup. Reaves can go after them or their stars after but for us it’s too late. We’ve had some great fighters over the years

As I said before though if he’s playing well then he’s good enough. He’ll need better linemates though to create a decent 4th line but that’s not his fault.

*Not all players by the way. I do see some guys ease up or don’t go through with an illegal hit when a player is vulnerable. Unfortunately there are guys that don’t realise/care and only the NHL can do anything about those twats (maybe the owners collectively can push the NHL).

 

[buzzworthy]

I am a big RR fan. He absolutely deters teams from running around. That doesn't mean that Crosby/Malkin and others won't get hacked, etc. It keeps the Dubinsky's and kind from trying to hurt our guys. One factor I didn't see mentioned is how well liked the guy is by his teammates. He is articulate, funny, and intelligent. You can clearly see that on interviews and interactions with his mates. We lost a lot of that with Fluery and Cullen leaving the team. Reeves is filling some of that void.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

When did Reaves do that?

It’s the playoffs and Sid’s in a vulnerable position and in the split second the guy makes a choice to crush/injure him. They aren’t thinking about Reaves. They are thinking about the cup. Reaves can go after them or their stars after but for us it’s too late. We’ve had some great fighters over the years

As I said before though if he’s playing well then he’s good enough. He’ll need better linemates though to create a decent 4th line but that’s not his fault.

*Not all players by the way. I do see some guys ease up or don’t go through with an illegal hit when a player is vulnerable. Unfortunately there are guys that don’t realise/care and only the NHL can do anything about those twats (maybe the owners collectively can push the NHL).

Except that's not the situation I'm talking about, or what he was brought in for. We're talking about repeated, methodical attempts to injure like Nisky did last year, and Staal and Dubinsky did in years past. Those were not isolated, split-second incidents. They were multiple cheap shots meant to wear Crosby down, and if they can be nipped in the bud early, we can save Sid a lot of wear and tear.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Except that's not the situation I'm talking about, or what he was brought in for. We're talking about repeated, methodical attempts to injure like Nisky did last year, and Staal and Dubinsky did in years past. Those were not isolated, split-second incidents. They were multiple cheap shots meant to wear Crosby down, and if they can be nipped in the bud early, we can save Sid a lot of wear and tear.

Still don’t think it’ll stop so I guess we’ll leave it there. Their coach likely is encouraging this stuff and there is still this old school mentality in some.

He’s been better the last couple games so need JR to figure the 4th line permanently. Sully still doesn’t have a lot of faith in it, fair enough too.

I guess the discussion should be who can we get to make it a good line. A fast LW and a skilled C.

 

[Shaffer]

Bumping this mainly because of his play lately with Sheahan as center. He’s looked a lot better with Sheahan-Kuhn. Ideally you get an upgrade over Kuhn.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Bumping this mainly because of his play lately with Sheahan as center. He’s looked a lot better with Sheahan-Kuhn. Ideally you get an upgrade over Kuhn.

Amazing how his play has improved when he's not being centered by Carter Rowney. No one could have foreseen that.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Amazing how his play has improved when he's not being centered by Carter Rowney. No one could have foreseen that.

He gets a little more ice time too because Sully trusts L4 now.

 

[Tender Rip]

Pure coincidence or not.... I believe it is fair to say that we have been subjected to substantially fewer cheap shots this season - and rather dramatically fewer injuries - than we had otherwise become used to. And most our injuries have seemingly been more of the freak accident sort.

But for a good long while there, Reaves really looked pretty worthless for us, more so with Sullivan's usage of him.

... saying this as someone who liked the St.Louis Ryan Reaves and was digging him early this season as well as right now with Sheahan..... and also as someone who thinks the price we paid for him was probably silly. One can be somewhat heartened that Sundqvist has done absolutely nothing though, and if that is what he is, then clearly we're talking marginal damage.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Pure coincidence or not.... I believe it is fair to say that we have been subjected to substantially fewer cheap shots this season - and rather dramatically fewer injuries - than we had otherwise become used to. And most our injuries have seemingly been more of the freak accident sort.

But for a good long while there, Reaves really looked pretty worthless for us, more so with Sullivan's usage of him.

... saying this as someone who liked the St.Louis Ryan Reaves and was digging him early this season as well as right now with Sheahan..... and also as someone who thinks the price we paid for him was probably silly. One can be somewhat heartened that Sundqvist has done absolutely nothing though, and if that is what he is, then clearly we're talking marginal damage.

Sundqvist was one of my favorite prospects and I thought he was going to be a good third pivot. My concern was always his skating, but I felt his other strengths would overcome this weakness, and it wasn't an issue in Europe/A.

Once I saw him skate in the NHL, I knew he was f***ed. Was quite obvious he was going to struggle to keep up.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I hope JR signs Reaves to an extension, hes been a good fit IMO.

 

[Shaffer]

I hope JR signs Reaves to an extension, hes been a good fit IMO.

Matt Martin would be a base deal for Reaves’s agent. I don’t want to give him more than 1.5m.

I’d 1.5m/4yr.

 

[wej20]

If they want to re-sign then I'd go 2 years max.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Matt Martin would be a base deal for Reaves’s agent. I don’t want to give him more than 1.5m.

I’d 1.5m/4yr.

Martin was coming off a 10 goal season, he was also younger then Reaves is now.

I would go something like 3 years for 6 million.

But i'm not sure if Reaves would want to sign here, he might be unhappy with his ice time.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Give Reaves long-term security, keep the cap hit down. Everybody wins.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I don't think Reaves signs up to play here again when he can get paid more and played more elsewhere.
I'd certainly prioritize him higher than a Kuhnackl tho when building next seasons roster.

 

[Tom Hanks]

4th liners should not get more than a 2 year contract and Reaves shouldn’t get more than 1.5 mil.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I’m going to be pissed if he’s re-signed.

He gets a little more ice time too because Sully trusts L4 now.

Surprisingly not so much. If you were to look at minutes and shifts over the season these last few games wouldn’t stand out. I think they’ve been together for 5 games and Reaves has been at or under the ATOI for 3 of those games. That really doesn’t stand out for his season. I know they had a lot of special teams yesterday but they also had a comfortable lead for a decent amount of time and that’s surely happened in other games.

 

[Nakawick]

6 years @ 3mil