The Return of the Hartford Whalers

GWhale*

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Pielsman said:
New Arena Plan for Hartford

Push for New Arena, NHL Team for Hartford

12/28/05- Hartford Courant

HARTFORD (AP) -- Eight years after the Whalers left Hartford, a developer says he is considering bringing another National Hockey League team to the capital city that would play in a new $250 million arena he wants to build.

"We've got our own money, we're willing to invest in an arena, and we're willing to buy a team," said Lawrence R. Gottesdiener, head of Northland Investment Corp. "It would be an important entity and symbol of the city, the region and the state to provide a first-class venue for the residents."

Northland owns $500 million worth of property in Hartford. Gottesdiener's plan calls for building a publicly subsidized, 16,000-seat sports and entertainment venue that would be home to a major league hockey team.
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This is only partial. Link/ address below to the story from the Courant.

http://wfsb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4296922

Looks like that story isn't from the Courant, but from the AP. Even more press on this.
 

Rumblick

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The article from the Hartford Courant

Now for the fun part::

First quote::
" We've got our own money, we're willing to invest in an arena, and we're willing to buy a team," said Lawrence R. Gottesdiener, head of Northland Investment Corp., which has a Hartford real estate portfolio worth $500 million.
Important addenda::
The $250 million could come from a variety of public and private funding sources, Gottesdiener said. One way the deal could be structured would be with $150 million in tax-exempt government bonds, $75 million from state or other government grants and $25 million in cash from Northland.

10% of the arena cost will come from "their own money". Gotta love the smooth talkers.

Even if this pipe dream does see the light of day, they should add about 2,000 seats to make it viable, and then they can line up behind all the other new, empty arenas begging for someone else to move. :shakehead
 

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GWhale said:
I've taken it from soccer. There is a thick line between professional and amateur.
However, the whole major league/minor league thing is from baseball. I don't know why hockey tried to follow that. If the NHL allowed competitive second division teams, non-NHL (first division) markets would really draw many more fans. But, I'm off topic.
Yeah Pros get paid with a check. :propeller
 

Pielsman

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GWhale said:
Looks like that story isn't from the Courant, but from the AP. Even more press on this.

You're right- I got it from WFSB and later corrected it. Sorry for the mis-info.

Food for thought anyways. As a Ct resident for 5 years now (and a B's fan to boot... :eek: ), I have much interest in this possibility/ pipe dream.

With the other recent positive inprovements in downtown Hartford, this building just may find public funding. Will they get an NHL team ? :dunno:

The developer does sound like a slick talker to me too, with his boats of 10% "real money".
 

CoolburnIsGone

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GWhale said:
Unfortunately, I don't understand the NHL's collective thought process. Had I been in charge, I would've done many things differently over the past twenty years, and believe that the league would be much better off. But I don't work for the NHL.

Perhaps if they look at Hartford, they'd see no competition from other professional sports, lots of full rinks surrounding the city with abundant youth and scholastic ice hockey programs, a surprisingly large population within a short distance, etc. They could look at the Whalers attendance records and say that when the Whalers had it together, they nearly always sold out, only when the team fell apart did attendance drop.

Or they could say they'd rather have another failing southern team. Who knows.

Then again, if the NHL is trying to promote a "free market", I'd think with the current conditions in Hartford a team could end up there by market forces. I'd suppose the owners just want healthy teams anywhere, now that the national television contract dream is over.
But its quite doubtful that the league under your rule would be a $2 billion/yr business. Don't kid yourselves that its not still a business first and foremost (and the league also listens to its owners...they took the quick cash with all the expansion teams coughing up large entrance fees). Whichever market can offer the best deal to a potential team/owner should get a team. IMO, yes KC and/or Houston could offer up a better deal than a Hartford or Winnipeg...based solely on the economics of the deal alone.

Sure I'd like to see Hartford get a team back...heck even Winnipeg. But at the expense or who? IMO, no current market should lose their team, period. I don't care what they're attendance figures look like or how bad they're team is/has been doing. Certain "southern" teams haven't failed because they haven't had the proper amount of time to fail yet. The league seems deadset on also keeping all the current markets in place as best it can.

Twenty yrs ago, I doubt you would think about the LA Kings trading for/Edmonton trading away Wayne Gretzky. But that trade had a huge impact on the NHL...it proved that a "southern" team could work and prompted several other expansion/relocation teams in the "southern" area (including the move of the Whalers to Carolina).
 

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GWhale*

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I don't understand what that writer is saying. My friends and I, who were all huge hockey fans, have not purchased tickets. We don't support MSG, ever. I'll actually attend games in the real MSG in New York, but the fact they they will try to fight to keep the NHL out of Hartford, I won't attend any of their events in Hartford until they leave. I'll wait for Ron Francis to be honoured properly by the Whalers. In the meantime, there is other hockey in the area.
 

Troy McClure

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GWhale said:
I'll wait for Ron Francis to be honoured properly by the Whalers. In the meantime, there is other hockey in the area.
Or you could support the event and encourage other Whalers fans to do the same. If 25,000 Whalers fans were there to honor their former players, then maybe it would further spur investment into getting NHL hockey back in Hartford. Instead, you let some petty BS make the event look like a joke. To those on the outside looking in, we wonder why in the world Hartford should get a team when they can't even dig up 10,000 fans to honor the best player in Whalers history.
 

Resolute

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Kind of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' scenario here. I can understand not wanting to support a poorly run organization. However, for this one game, I would think that Whaler fans should put aside the bitterness long enough to honor the region's hockey stars.

You can send a positive message about the viability of Hartford on this night, then go back to ignoring MSG afterward.
 

GWhale*

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There's an attendance clause too that can allow the CDA to remove MSG immediately. Right now they are under that amount, which is pretty low to begin with. I know that's another reason why someone like myself would want to stay home, why even help them stay longer? You know they are going to try and squat in Hartford as long as possible. It's a tough decision really.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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GWhale said:
There's an attendance clause too that can allow the CDA to remove MSG immediately. Right now they are under that amount, which is pretty low to begin with. I know that's another reason why someone like myself would want to stay home, why even help them stay longer? You know they are going to try and squat in Hartford as long as possible. It's a tough decision really.


Which is the lesser of two evils, here, GW?????

The CDA/MSG being empty of tenant or economic development ie having the HCC sit in disrepair had the Rangers not moved to Hartford to keep $ AND in a way the hockey tradition the Whalers began in 1972 and being in that building since 1979, and the Wolf*Pack NOT REPRESENT the state of Connecticut/city of Hartford and have nothing to do in Hartford once Karmanos made his decision to bolt for Greensboro, then Raleigh, in 1997, think about that, what would Whaler fans do this time of year if there was no hockey in Hartford whatsoever, it wasn't exactly sure minor league hockey would fly in Hartford as compared to the WHA/NHL.
 

GWhale*

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CHRDANHUTCH said:
Which is the lesser of two evils, here, GW?????

The CDA/MSG being empty of tenant or economic development ie having the HCC sit in disrepair had the Rangers not moved to Hartford to keep $ AND in a way the hockey tradition the Whalers began in 1972 and being in that building since 1979, and the Wolf*Pack NOT REPRESENT the state of Connecticut/city of Hartford and have nothing to do in Hartford once Karmanos made his decision to bolt for Greensboro, then Raleigh, in 1997, think about that, what would Whaler fans do this time of year if there was no hockey in Hartford whatsoever, it wasn't exactly sure minor league hockey would fly in Hartford as compared to the WHA/NHL.

Umm if there was no minor league hockey in Hartford, my life would be exactly the same, because I haven't attended a Wolf Pack game in 5 years.
 

Panic at the Back

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I'm new to the area and fairly new to Connecticut.

I'd love to see the Whalers in some form or fashion return, but I can't see the NHL expanding for a few years. As for relocation... not sure who is the best candidate, but I don't see anyone moving to CT.

Connecticut's a nice place to live, but difficult to do business in and/or with. Workman's Comp is high, unemployment insurance is high, and they tax everything in sight. Unless there are some major changes in the way the State does business there is no way NHL returns.

As for MSG, I think they are out at both HCC and the Rent, but I doubt CT will find the right company to run the venues.

Wolfpack - I'd love to go see a game, but at $18 for the cheap seats it seems overpriced. Plus I hate the Rangers, always have. I'm more likely to drive 2 hours to New Jersey or Boston or even 5 hours to DC to see the Caps play.


I think we have a better chance at an MLS team at Rentschler than an NHL in Hartford. Shame, but that's what I see.
 

pelts35.com

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CHRDANHUTCH said:
Which is the lesser of two evils, here, GW?????

The CDA/MSG being empty of tenant or economic development ie having the HCC sit in disrepair had the Rangers not moved to Hartford to keep $ AND in a way the hockey tradition the Whalers began in 1972 and being in that building since 1979, and the Wolf*Pack NOT REPRESENT the state of Connecticut/city of Hartford and have nothing to do in Hartford once Karmanos made his decision to bolt for Greensboro, then Raleigh, in 1997, think about that, what would Whaler fans do this time of year if there was no hockey in Hartford whatsoever, it wasn't exactly sure minor league hockey would fly in Hartford as compared to the WHA/NHL.

That is one serious run-on sentence and I have no idea of what you are trying to say. Try writing one thought per sentence and maybe it would be intelligible. Four ands in one sentence? :shakehead

And, BTW, I would hardly call the Wolfpack a minor league success story. They typically rank in the lower half of the league in attendance. I have been to at least a dozen games at the HCC and the only time I have ever saw a half decent sized crowd is when they had some teeny bopper singer perform during warmups and intermission, needless to say, the majority of that crowd wasn't there for a hockey game.

I would guess that the majority of Whalers fans are more like GWhale and have never ventured to a Wolfpack game.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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pelts35.com said:
That is one serious run-on sentence and I have no idea of what you are trying to say. Try writing one thought per sentence and maybe it would be intelligible. Four ands in one sentence? :shakehead

And, BTW, I would hardly call the Wolfpack a minor league success story. They typically rank in the lower half of the league in attendance. I have been to at least a dozen games at the HCC and the only time I have ever saw a half decent sized crowd is when they had some teeny bopper singer perform during warmups and intermission, needless to say, the majority of that crowd wasn't there for a hockey game.

I would guess that the majority of Whalers fans are more like GWhale and have never ventured to a Wolfpack game.

It's an opinion PELTS :rant: YOU don't seem to want to bother by following this topic why did u even comment on it then :madfire:
 

pelts35.com

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CHRDANHUTCH said:
It's an opinion PELTS :rant: YOU don't seem to want to bother by following this topic why did u even comment on it then :madfire:

What is your opinion? I was asking you to clarify it since I could not understand what you were trying to say in your run-on sentence. You then reply with another grammatically challenged sentence? :shakehead :dunno:

I did follow the topic and commented about the Wolfpack and their lack of success as well as the fact that most CT residents are like GWhale and probably never went to a Wolfpack game.

So, please tell me where I "don't seem to want to bother by following this topic".
 

Rumblick

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pelts35.com said:
I did follow the topic and commented about the Wolfpack and their lack of success as well as the fact that most CT residents are like GWhale and probably never went to a Wolfpack game.

Lack of success:

8 years in the AHL

1 Calder Cup
2 Conference Finals
3 100-point seasons

1 Season lower than second place.

Attendance: Top 5 in the league 3 of their first 4 years, barely out of top 5 in the 4th. Still near the top 3rd of the league even though their attendance has slipped since their Cup year bump.

To think that there are people who've abandoned or ignored this team just because they don't have a fish on their jersey is just sad.
 

pelts35.com

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Dango said:
Lack of success:

8 years in the AHL

1 Calder Cup
2 Conference Finals
3 100-point seasons

1 Season lower than second place.

Attendance: Top 5 in the league 3 of their first 4 years, barely out of top 5 in the 4th. Still near the top 3rd of the league even though their attendance has slipped since their Cup year bump.

To think that there are people who've abandoned or ignored this team just because they don't have a fish on their jersey is just sad.

I should have prefaced my statement by stating that the Wolfpack, on the ice, have been a successful franchise. I apologize for that.

That being said, their attendance has been declining steadily over the past couple of seasons. Averaging under 5,000 in a relatively large city is pretty sad, especially for a franchise that puts a winning product on the ice year in and year out.

My good friend in his post asked what would Whaler fans do without the Wolfpack. Obviously, if they are averaging under 5,000 per game, they aren't getting their hockey fix at the HCC as I am guessing that there are more than 4,700 Whaler fans in the greater Hartford area.

The lack of support for the Wolfpack has nothing to do with not having a mammal (not a fish ;) ) on their jersey, but, most likely, reflects the lack of allure of a minor league franchise. The high ticket prices (relative to other AHL venues) doesn't help either.
 
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CHRDANHUTCH

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Dango said:
Lack of success:

8 years in the AHL

1 Calder Cup
2 Conference Finals
3 100-point seasons

1 Season lower than second place.

Attendance: Top 5 in the league 3 of their first 4 years, barely out of top 5 in the 4th. Still near the top 3rd of the league even though their attendance has slipped since their Cup year bump.

To think that there are people who've abandoned or ignored this team just because they don't have a fish on their jersey is just sad.

Thank you Dango ;)
 

pelts35.com

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CHRDANHUTCH said:
Thank you Dango ;)

Was that your point???

If not, I'm still waiting for you to explain what your run-on sentence meant. :dunno: Otherwise, it reminded me of the scene in Billy Madison when he rambled on and on and didn't make any sense.
 

Squiddy*

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pelts35.com said:
Was that your point???

If not, I'm still waiting for you to explain what your run-on sentence meant. :dunno: Otherwise, it reminded me of the scene in Billy Madison when he rambled on and on and didn't make any sense.

I hear ya... Hutch always brings up the AHL and stuff like it is on par with the NHL etc. Then he adds minor league/ AHL teams from different regions that are being discussed along with some emotion icons to his rants.

Something like this...

Member says: I don't think KC deserves a hockey team..

Hutch Says: So the IHL blades which folded in 199X :rant: and lets not forget the pla-mors of the AHA in the 1920's :jump:
 
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pelts35.com

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Squiddy said:
I hear ya... Hutch always brings up the AHL and stuff like it is on par with the NHL etc. Then he adds minor league/ AHL teams from different regions that are being discussed along with some emotion icons to his rants.

Something like this...

Member says: I don't think KC deserves a hockey team..

Hutch Says: So the IHL blades which folded in 199X :rant: and lets not forget the pla-mors of the AHA in the 1920's :jump:

I don't want to turn this into a personal attack. I just want him to explain what he was trying to say in his rambling sentence that made absolutely no sense whatsoever (which he still has not done).

Instead, after I restated a comment that I made, he applauds another member and still says nothing about his post.
 

Squiddy*

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pelts35.com said:
I don't want to turn this into a personal attack. I just want him to explain what he was trying to say in his rambling sentence that made absolutely no sense whatsoever (which he still has not done).

Instead, after I restated a comment that I made, he applauds another member and still says nothing about his post.

oh I know, but im just trying to save you some time and a headache.
 

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