The Return of the Hartford Whalers

doc5hole

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Nov 30, 2003
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wwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnn minute to play in the period ... wwwwwaaaahhhnnnn minute. Miss that announcement. That and Hartford''s unique brand of stoppage music: "no ya neva gonna get - not this time - doooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwop ..."
 

Resolute

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Mar 4, 2005
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GWhale said:
I completely disagree. Returning the Whalers would mean alot more to the league as a whole than going to a completely new city. Likewise for Quebec City and Winnipeg, but the Whalers have attained a cult status in the USA that is pretty unique. And as much as I would hate it, the Bruins would benefit substantially. In New England, rivalries are everything.

I hate to tell you, but fans all over North America would not be lining up to see their team take on Hartford. And there isnt much of a cult following. The only thing most fans know about them is that they had a cool jersey.

Go into a secondary city in New England, or go to the 4th largest TV market in the US? Not a tough call.

KC has sold 80-90% of their new arena's luxury suites, despite there being no major tennant. Lot of money there.

It all comes down to money, and these two markets have more of it, and more potential to generate it than Hartford, Quebec City and Winnipeg ever will. Once they get their teams, then we can start thinking about returning to older markets, but honestly, I doubt Hartford is even on the NHL's radar at this point.

However, I suppose that is the entire point of this thread: how to get Hartford on that radar.
 

Resolute

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jet228 said:
obviously you know nothing of the topic...

if you care to learn a little check out jetsowner.com

somehow I doubt you will... posters like you are usually more interested in stirring the pot than actually basing anything on fact.

I love jetsowner. Great example of how the internet powers delusions.

Shame he redesigned it a while ago (and went with the ever buisness like domain of "beerforbreakfast.com"), because my favorite "fact" of all time was on the old site when he compared the MTS Centre to the (Canadian Airlines) Saddledome, and commented how MTS had 50 luxury suites, while the Saddledome only had 40. Of course, he kinda failed to mention that the Saddledome only had 40 suites until 1994. Since those renovations, the Dome had nearly 80 suites.

He also kinda failed to mention that the Saddledome holds 19,289, while the MTS Centre was always expected to hold 15,000.

Yet somehow becuase Calgary could do it, Winnipeg could too, in a much smaller arena.
 

Squiddy*

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Oct 24, 2005
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Resolute said:
I love jetsowner. Great example of how the internet powers delusions.

Shame he redesigned it a while ago (and went with the ever buisness like domain of "beerforbreakfast.com"), because my favorite "fact" of all time was on the old site when he compared the MTS Centre to the (Canadian Airlines) Saddledome, and commented how MTS had 50 luxury suites, while the Saddledome only had 40. Of course, he kinda failed to mention that the Saddledome only had 40 suites until 1994. Since those renovations, the Dome had nearly 80 suites.

He also kinda failed to mention that the Saddledome holds 19,289, while the MTS Centre was always expected to hold 15,000.

Yet somehow becuase Calgary could do it, Winnipeg could too, in a much smaller arena.

Calgary is a growing city. Forbes (I think it was Forbes) indicated that by 2012 it could be bigger than vancouver (I know it's weird that an american magazine is talking about the state of a canadian city). Whats going on with winnipeg? Nothing... it's freezing in winnipeg. If someone on this message board directs you to that jetsowner site as a showing of hardcore fan support just laugh them off. There are like the same few people who post on it (USApegger etc) and other sympathizers from other cities who have now defunct teams saying "Winnipeg deserves a team yeah!"

Ofcourse they will ban you if you tell em that things aren't going to work out because they are very dilusional.
 
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GWhale*

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Squiddy said:
Are you serious? All they do is troll and stay some very very dilusional things.

Troll? What? I just joined this board. I'm talking about in real life.
 

GWhale*

Guest
Resolute said:
I hate to tell you, but fans all over North America would not be lining up to see their team take on Hartford. And there isnt much of a cult following. The only thing most fans know about them is that they had a cool jersey.

Go into a secondary city in New England, or go to the 4th largest TV market in the US? Not a tough call.

KC has sold 80-90% of their new arena's luxury suites, despite there being no major tennant. Lot of money there.

It all comes down to money, and these two markets have more of it, and more potential to generate it than Hartford, Quebec City and Winnipeg ever will. Once they get their teams, then we can start thinking about returning to older markets, but honestly, I doubt Hartford is even on the NHL's radar at this point.

However, I suppose that is the entire point of this thread: how to get Hartford on that radar.


Are you a hockey fan or just a fan of how to make money for the NHL? I think you're stuck in the philosophy of 1992, because the way you're presenting things is what the NHL thought back then and why it screwed itself up. Putting hockey teams in markets that don't care about hockey to make the sport grow didn't work, the league just lost fans it already had.

Also, Kansas City? I wasn't even aware Kansas City was larger than Hartford. I could be wrong but you're making it sound like some metropolis.
 

Squiddy*

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GWhale said:
Are you a hockey fan or just a fan of how to make money for the NHL? I think you're stuck in the philosophy of 1992, because the way you're presenting things is what the NHL thought back then and why it screwed itself up. Putting hockey teams in markets that don't care about hockey to make the sport grow didn't work, the league just lost fans it already had.

Yep because 10 + years is sufficient time for any sport to spread its wings. :sarcasm:

How many people do you know in these "markets that don't care about hockey" ?.. Do you know their situations? Was Hartford selling out the Civic Centre night in and night out? I remember karmanos saying that if Season ticket sales don't pick up that he will move the team. What exactly happend after? They sold some more tickets but still not enough to sell out the pretty small civic arena. I guess that means Hartford really doesn't "care" for hockey?

Could it be that the NHL was losing money because their Bargaining argreement/ money model was flawed? Or how about the league officials just ruined the quality because "they let the boys play" ? Oh wait here is the kicker ... Ratings are up 200 % in canada which can only mean that many people weren't watching the crappy quality of the NHL pre-lockout.
 
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GWhale*

Guest
Resolute said:
Go into a secondary city in New England, or go to the 4th largest TV market in the US? Not a tough call.

Out of sheer curiousity, I just went to this site http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html to find TV markets.

Houston is #10, Hartford is #28, and Kansas City is #31.

Were you joking, wishing for Philadelphia to get a second team, or just uninformed?

I'd say obviously, if there were some kind of contest between the three,, the NHL should go to Hartford because it's a hockey market.
 

GWhale*

Guest
Squiddy said:
Yep because 10 + years is sufficient time for any sport to spread its wings. :sarcasm:

How many people do you know in these "markets that don't care about hockey" ?.. Do you know their situations? Was Hartford selling out the Civic Centre night in and night out? I remember karmanos saying that if Season ticket sales don't pick up that he will move the team. What exactly happend after? They sold some more tickets but still not enough to sell out the pretty small civic arena. I guess that means Hartford really doesn't "care" for hockey?

Is this some southern pride thing? Because I'm so not getting into this. Just get over it.
 

Squiddy*

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GWhale said:
Out of sheer curiousity, I just went to this site http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html to find TV markets.

Houston is #10, Hartford is #28, and Kansas City is #31.

Were you joking, wishing for Philadelphia to get a second team, or just uninformed?

I'd say obviously, if there were some kind of contest between the three,, the NHL should go to Hartford because it's a hockey market.

Philly is a much better hockey market than Hartford!!! Don't even try to imply anything else.
 

Squiddy*

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GWhale said:
Is this some southern pride thing? Because I'm so not getting into this. Just get over it.

Buddy I'm canadian, so why the hell would I have southern pride? I just live here for the time being.
 

GWhale*

Guest
Squiddy said:
Philly is a much better hockey market than Hartford!!! Don't even try to imply anything else.

My only implication is that you're annoying and trolling.
 

Squiddy*

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GWhale said:
My only implication is that you're annoying and trolling.

How am I trolling? First of all this is a general board and second of all it is just my opinion. If this is considered trolling then what are you doing? You are clearly attacking the fanbase of teams in the newer NHL market. Don't you think it annoys people when the likes of whalers fans, Jets fans, and Nordiques fans (haven't seen them around and they aren't very annoying to be honest) with their attacks against non traditional markets aren't annoying? Trust me it is and honestly houston or KC are going to get the next team whether you like it or not. Also before you say anything about KC know that they had just as good attendance if not better than the whalers did in the WHA and got the NHL to notice the WHA expansion by trying to lure them to Houston with the Aeros.

That's I'm done with this thread. Email John Buccigross when the whale comes back, I'm sure he'll care.
 

GWhale*

Guest
Ok, apparently Houston and Kansas City for some odd reason are the next cities to play in the NHL. Talking about the Whalers is an attack on non traditional markets. John Buccigross will care when the Whalers come back and should be alerted by email. And Squiggy has left.

Now that this is all cleared up, I think the thread should get back on topic.
 

Squiddy*

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GWhale said:
Ok, apparently Houston and Kansas City for some odd reason are the next cities to play in the NHL. Talking about the Whalers is an attack on non traditional markets. John Buccigross will care when the Whalers come back and should be alerted by email. And Squiggy has left.

Now that this is all cleared up, I think the thread should get back on topic.
hmmmmm

GWhale said:
Are you a hockey fan or just a fan of how to make money for the NHL? I think you're stuck in the philosophy of 1992, because the way you're presenting things is what the NHL thought back then and why it screwed itself up. Putting hockey teams in markets that don't care about hockey to make the sport grow didn't work, the league just lost fans it already had.

Also, Kansas City? I wasn't even aware Kansas City was larger than Hartford. I could be wrong but you're making it sound like some metropolis.

Side stepping a bit?

BTW: If you didn't know this... to grow a sport you have to go to places where the sport isn't very well known. That's the whole point in growing something no?
 

Voice of Reason

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Jul 6, 2003
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As a resident of the Hartford area for the past 10 years (Devil fan as they moved to NJ when I was in high school there), I would be, obviously, very excited to have the Whale return. Only, however, for NHL action, not an undying love of the Whalers. My expectations, however, are very low regarding a return.

They still need a new arena. The HCC was in need of desperate upheavals when they left and it's still the same. While there is somewhat of a "boom" going on in Hartford right now (they are actually building things downtown for a change!), there is still no real indication that this will result in a better ability to support the NHL. And, the upgrades needed in 1996-97 are now not sufficient for what an NHL franchise requires in 2006.

Location is another issue. It has been mentioned in the press up here that downtown Hartford would probably NOT be the automatic first choice. Due to traffic, newer buildings since put up, etc, there is momentum to build a "highway-side" arena like the Meadowlands or even The Rent (UConn football stadium). If CT wouldn't help out its capital city, would they throw money at a smaller town like East Hartford or Windsor or Wethersfield? Do those towns even want an arena?

I also question the overall desire in the area for a team. While some recall the Whaler days with fondness, others have moved on. They left 9 yrs ago and many people I talk to have gotten over it a long time ago. UConn BB is king (and queen) up here, UConn football has improved and sells out, and other activities have filled the void. The disappointing box office for the Wolfpack can't help things either.

Regarding the Pack, I'm not that sure it's mainly because the are the NYR affiliate that they don't draw. It just doesn't seem like anyone cares about the AHL in Hartford. The fact that virtually zero games are ever on tv (just like the Whaler days- anything Boston- Bs or Cs, took priority on cable IN HARTFORD!) doesn't help build the fanbase at all. To the average fan, the stars of the A are unknowns and there are very few players even on the Pack that would cause someone to make a special trip to a game. Also, with NHL Center Ice, NYR games are the only team blacked out up here, so you can't see the Pack players in the bigs once they get promoted. Not all areas of CT, mine included, get MSG Network, so, aside from the radio, it is very difficult to follow both the farm and parent club that are both within hours of each other. Ridiculous.
In order to give the NHL a real reason to consider Hartford beyond nostalgia, the Pack needs to start drawing much bigger crowds to show hockey interest. With the NYR running them, why would they market the team better to possibly allow an NHL team to come back and slash MSG's profits?

No, given the current situation (and I thought I heard this week that the contract with MSG was renewed), the return of the Whale looks like a real long shot.
 

Hawker14

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Oct 27, 2004
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it would be great for hartford fans to get a team back.

it was very unfair and cruel what karmanos did to the fans.
 

GWhale*

Guest
The Voice of Reason obviously doesn't get out much. MSG's contract has not been renewed, television has nothing to do with why people hate the Wolf Pack, UConn basketball's crowds are sharply declining, and there is a study right now to determine if the HCC needs to be replaced. Maybe before beginning a rant, at least be up to date on current events.
 

Troy McClure

Suter will never be scratched
Mar 12, 2002
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GWhale said:
Are you a hockey fan or just a fan of how to make money for the NHL?
Just being realistic. When cities come calling to the NHL making presentations to sell their locations, the ONLY thing the NHL cares about is which one will make the most money. That's it. That's why any number of southern cities are better markets than Hartford.
 

Squiddy*

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Oct 24, 2005
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CHRDANHUTCH said:
Excuse Me Squiddy if u r Canadian why don't u support a Canadian franchise in your avatar??????? Isn't Houston a US Franchise anyway :biglaugh: :shakehead :confused: :sarcasm:

Well I did support a team while I was living in Canada. They were the jets, so I know a thing or two about the so called "great" fanbase in winnipeg. I also know that back in the day living in Saskatchewan I could easily drive up to the Winnipeg arena and by tickets in almost any section I want. They were a lot cheaper than they are now too! As for a canadian team? I could really care less because I'm not as patriotic as a lot of homers on this site are. I consider myself not american and my canadian blood seems to be running out, so I would think of myself as north american. However I was born in Canada so on my birth certificate it says Vancouver B.C. :)

BTW: Who says all canadians HAVE to like a Canadian hockey teams? Ignorant much? :confused: :biglaugh: :shakehead :dunno:
 

GWhale*

Guest
Fascinating story there. It's just I doubt anyone really cares about your life story.
 

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