The Return of the Hartford Whalers

bleedgreen

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CHRDANHUTCH said:
Doesn't Baldwin own a share of the AHL Iowa Stars, a team he rescued from the missteps IE MISTAKE of the Tamer Afr Regime that had included at one point the NHL Florida Panthers placing their prospects in Louisville, Kentucky only to find out 2 years in the players weren't be paid not to mention the UHL franchises in Port Huron and Elmira, one of which was summarily transferred to Roanoke to become the Vipers.

BTW, GWhale, the original name of the Whalers was not Hartford, but New England (1972-79) but just played in Hartford, who is to supply players if the Rangers still operate the franchise, if everyone hates the Wolf*Pack as you claim why did the Rangers bull their way out of Binghamton back in 1997 leaving that veteran AHL City WITH AN INFERIORITY complex and league in the BC Icemen for 5 years until the Ottawa Senators agreed to bring the AHL TO Binghamton once again.

Go back and understand why MSG/Rangers arrived in Hartford is due to the fact when the NE/Hartford Whalers were competitive they had an intense rivalry with the Rangers, fans from both NY and Boston would go to Whaler games, that's why the intensity of Pack fans are disdaining the Pack besides that the Rangers aren't exactly the model franchise to compare success to.

MSG also runs Renchtler Stadium @ U-Conn, according to the Pack site affording them, not just Basketball domination at that State school.

What has exactly changed since the Pack arrived in Hartford, GWhale, hmmmmmmm?

Remember too, the Whalers also spent time in Springfield (first, the BIG E, then the Springfield Civic Center, now MassMutual Center, the Boston Garden, Boston Arena, now known as Matthews Arena, aka Northeastern U's home rink.....

Except for a brief stint due to the Blizzard in Springfield, due to the HCC roof cave-in/collapse, the Whalers didn't go to Hartford until January 11, 1975, although the team adopted Hartford when the WHA collapsed in 1979.

Had they not been moved by Karmanos and btw, when the negotiations stalled between Connecticut and the Whalers, this franchise would be just be passing its 32nd anniversary, you do realize, GWhale, that corruption was prevalent in the State leadership IE John Rowland.

But this is not the Whalers franchise you're dealing with, Karmanos owns that franchise, you're not dealing with Carolina, you're dealing with the Rangers.

Considering another fact, why would Connecticut's baseball team just adopt a similar name to honor the sub facilities in your state, hmmmm? BTW, where is Kevin Dineen, perhaps the most famous alumni of said Whalers, in Portland, while Hartford is stuck with a coach/GM who's most famous line was in 1988 :shakehead

I agree w/ FLYLINE, Here, sorry Gwhale and Jet228, you also inherited another city's franchise, why exactly did the Moose choose Winnipeg anyway?

i read it twice, and i still dont understand....what is your point? are you for the whale coming back in some form or against? its a solid history lesson - but i dont understand what youre getting at. all he said was that baldwin was trying to bring a team in some form back.
 

Verbeek

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It would be ncie to see the whale return in some form, and AHL is the highest rung in the ladder then can go right now.. so I say go for it.

As for affiliations, there are some teams sharing AHL franchises, so I don't see why it would be a problem for them to work out a deal with the Avalanche or some other team that currently shares one team. If they were so inclined.
 

Felonious Python

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rwilson99 said:
Return of the Solar Bears? Share, please.

There has been rumors since about May that the dormant Utah Grizzlies franchise would be bought by the Florida Panthers and moved to Orlando and play in the AHL next season.

Florida changing affiliations from San Antonio to no one for a few months just fueled speculation that they would rush it but it was probably too late in the offseason to do so.
 

Squiddy*

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Why doesn't the Moose just name themselves the jets... I mean winnipeg didn't mind when they were in the WHA. Why not have the Jets in the AHL?
 

EHCler

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Well sadly everyyear the same storey what does the CDA actually want and what are they waiting for. :shakehead

Hartford definatly can support a professional sports team, just needs the correct facilities. The attendance for UConn games shows the potential especially that it is not like a mad university city.

I remember following the Whale before they where relocated to North Carolina and comparing them to other franchises even now they had a better following.

Hartford surely is not the most glamorous of cities with tons of potential sponsors, but there at least will not be competition from 3 other professional sports. Looking at it, the cities which are struggeling to support franchises and failed relocations are the ones where there is too much competition from other sports.

The NHL in this perspective has to rethink partially. One can not just look at market potential but also at competiton from other sports as they take attendance and sponsorship away. That is how you can create hockey towns and promote the sport. I just hope the new NHL long term can support franchises in smaller/ midsize hockey markets.
 

GWhale*

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Squiddy said:
Why doesn't the Moose just name themselves the jets... I mean winnipeg didn't mind when they were in the WHA. Why not have the Jets in the AHL?

It depends on who owns the Moose which I don't know. If MSG ever tried to rename their team the "Whalers", it would have simply caused outrage here.

The name is much less important as the club's mission, and a name change is not at all the story here.
 

Squiddy*

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GWhale said:
It depends on who owns the Moose which I don't know. If MSG ever tried to rename their team the "Whalers", it would have simply caused outrage here.

The name is much less important as the club's mission, and a name change is not at all the story here.

That chipman guy owns them I think... the guy who tried to "save" the jets.
 

ej_pens

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GWhale said:
He did fine in Hartford for 18 years, the Whalers were one of the most profitable in the NHL when he was bought out, it was the next owners who absolutely killed the team.

And then he went to San Francisco where he tried to buy an expansion team. Of course, as with anything that Baldwin does, he doesn't have enough money to actually buy the expansion team. So what happens? He completes a deal with George Gund, which would have completely ***** the North Stars just so he could buy another team. Even then, he still gets his hands on the North Stars until he doesn't have enough cash to hold his interest in the team and sells them.

And then we come to the Penguins. He doesn't actually have enough money to buy the Pens (are we seeing a pattern here?), so he basically leverages every good deal the Penguins have to get the money to buy the team, killing their future revenues for a short term money grab. Along the way, he continues to leverage any deal he can for short term money to continues running the team into the red. In the end, there was nothing left to leverage and they go into bankruptcy and it was completely his fault.

Of course, he blames his problems on the fact that he didn't have a new arena. What he doesn't tell anyone is that the reason the Pens don't have a new arena already his mostly his fault. When the city built 2 new parks for the Pirates and Steelers, Baldwin made an agreement with the city to forgo plans for a new Pens arena in return for "improvements" to the Civic Arena. Once again, he needed money right then and sold the Pens down the river.

So yeah, he's hated here. And for very good reason. But quite frankly, his history suggests that the NHL would be nuts to ever let him own another NHL franchise.
 

AdmiralPred

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bleedgreen said:
i read it twice, and i still dont understand....what is your point?
Never ask that question in regards to one of those posts. You'll only find another post that will not answer your question.
 

Verbeek

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Squiddy said:
Why doesn't the Moose just name themselves the jets... I mean winnipeg didn't mind when they were in the WHA. Why not have the Jets in the AHL?

That comment is odd... ofcourse they didn't mind, they were getting a pro team and the Jets name was brand new. heh. The Jets were in the WHA before the NHL.

Maybe the current Moose can't use the Jets name because the now Phoenix franchise doesn't want to give it up.
 

GWhale*

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Verbeek said:
That comment is odd... ofcourse they didn't mind, they were getting a pro team and the Jets name was brand new. heh. The Jets were in the WHA before the NHL.

Maybe the current Moose can't use the Jets name because the now Phoenix franchise doesn't want to give it up.

Not to mention, WHA had no salary cap, no age/game restrictions on players, and no affiliations. The Winnipeg Jets of the WHA were a top team in North America in every sense. The AHL is different.

The point of this is that IF this all goes to plan, you're going to see a hockey club in Hartford trying to build itself up to NHL standards, talent-wise would be impossible, but the fans will want to support their team towards promotion. I don't think there's a precedent for that in North America.

In European soccer, and probably hockey as well, you'd see a second division club which is committed to signing talent and getting promoted to the first division team have as much or often more support than some teams already playing the "major league" first division. AHL rules, however, would never allow an AHL team to be competitive with an NHL team.
 

Jet

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Verbeek said:
That comment is odd... ofcourse they didn't mind, they were getting a pro team and the Jets name was brand new. heh. The Jets were in the WHA before the NHL.

Maybe the current Moose can't use the Jets name because the now Phoenix franchise doesn't want to give it up.

When the Jets left Winnipeg one of the conditions of the sale of the team from Barry Shenkarow was that the name, moniker, logo and all other rights of the Jets would remain the property of the citizens of Winnipeg. So, if there was a push to rename the Moose to Jets, there wouldn't be a legal issue.

However, the move would most certainly be considered almost blasphemous and would draw the ire of countless Jets fans, myself included. The Jets name is reserved for when the NHL returns to Winnipeg, which is only a matter of time.

The Moose and the AHL brand is hated in Winnipeg, as many people see it as second rate and a barrier to the NHL returning.
 

Squiddy*

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jet228 said:
The Jets name is reserved for when the NHL returns to Winnipeg, which is only a matter of time.

:biglaugh:

riiiiiight... when you mean soon do you mean when those 4 guys at the "bring back the jets rally" mass procreate thousands of Jets fans?
 

Resolute

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Squiddy said:
Why doesn't the Moose just name themselves the jets... I mean winnipeg didn't mind when they were in the WHA. Why not have the Jets in the AHL?

Because the NHL owns the trademark.

Also, is it worth the trouble of buying the name, logo and colours back from the NHL and then having the name serve as a constant reminder of what they lost?

As far as the original topic goes, I wish a group that wishes to rebuild Hartford into a hockey city the best of luck, but like Winnipeg and Quebec City, I do not see Hartford as a likely or realistic candidate for relocation until Houston, KC and Portland have their shot.
 

Resolute

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jet228 said:
The Moose and the AHL brand is hated in Winnipeg, as many people see it as second rate and a barrier to the NHL returning.

Indeed. Winnipeg hates the AHL so much that it was 4th in all of minor league hockey in attendance last year, and two of the teams ahead of them (Chicago, Edmonton) were ahead mainly becuase of the NHL lockout. This year, despite the shine coming off of MTS Centre, the Moose are still 4th in the AHL in terms of attendance.

Perhaps Winnipeg is on a self-loathing kick?
 

Jet

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Resolute said:
Indeed. Winnipeg hates the AHL so much that it was 4th in all of minor league hockey in attendance last year, and two of the teams ahead of them (Chicago, Edmonton) were ahead mainly becuase of the NHL lockout. This year, despite the shine coming off of MTS Centre, the Moose are still 4th in the AHL in terms of attendance.

Perhaps Winnipeg is on a self-loathing kick?

That just goes to show you how much Winnipeg loves hockey.
 

Jet

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Squiddy said:
:biglaugh:

riiiiiight... when you mean soon do you mean when those 4 guys at the "bring back the jets rally" mass procreate thousands of Jets fans?

obviously you know nothing of the topic...

if you care to learn a little check out jetsowner.com

somehow I doubt you will... posters like you are usually more interested in stirring the pot than actually basing anything on fact.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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jet228 said:
When the Jets left Winnipeg one of the conditions of the sale of the team from Barry Shenkarow was that the name, moniker, logo and all other rights of the Jets would remain the property of the citizens of Winnipeg. So, if there was a push to rename the Moose to Jets, there wouldn't be a legal issue.

However, the move would most certainly be considered almost blasphemous and would draw the ire of countless Jets fans, myself included. The Jets name is reserved for when the NHL returns to Winnipeg, which is only a matter of time.

The Moose and the AHL brand is hated in Winnipeg, as many people see it as second rate and a barrier to the NHL returning.

if the AHL/Moose are hated so much, Jet228, why were the Moose selected along with MTS Centre to host the AHL All Star Classic, are the Vancouver Canucks hated that much in Winnipeg??????? :shakehead
 

GWhale*

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Resolute said:
Because the NHL owns the trademark.

Also, is it worth the trouble of buying the name, logo and colours back from the NHL and then having the name serve as a constant reminder of what they lost?

As far as the original topic goes, I wish a group that wishes to rebuild Hartford into a hockey city the best of luck, but like Winnipeg and Quebec City, I do not see Hartford as a likely or realistic candidate for relocation until Houston, KC and Portland have their shot.

I completely disagree. Returning the Whalers would mean alot more to the league as a whole than going to a completely new city. Likewise for Quebec City and Winnipeg, but the Whalers have attained a cult status in the USA that is pretty unique. And as much as I would hate it, the Bruins would benefit substantially. In New England, rivalries are everything.
 

GWhale*

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jet228 said:
obviously you know nothing of the topic...

if you care to learn a little check out jetsowner.com

somehow I doubt you will... posters like you are usually more interested in stirring the pot than actually basing anything on fact.

Seriously, I think Hartford and Quebec fans have taken a quiet, bitter approach at the whole situation for the most part. Winnipeg fans have been much more vocal and organized and I'm very impressed.
 

Squiddy*

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jet228 said:
obviously you know nothing of the topic...

if you care to learn a little check out jetsowner.com

somehow I doubt you will... posters like you are usually more interested in stirring the pot than actually basing anything on fact.

Oh I know all about that site and the 20 people who spew propaganda, so how is that "Revenue" section comming? I heard you guys want to generate revenue by doing a yearly bake sale.. :biglaugh:
 

Squiddy*

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GWhale said:
Seriously, I think Hartford and Quebec fans have taken a quiet, bitter approach at the whole situation for the most part. Winnipeg fans have been much more vocal and organized and I'm very impressed.

Are you serious? All they do is troll and stay some very very dilusional things.
 

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