The real reason the cap works in the NFL

[thinkwild]

Sorry, but I didn't miss anything. I didn't list the TV money that they 'share' because splitting up the money generated by the league evenly among the 32 teams isn't revenue sharing. Revenue sharing is when teams share revenue that the teams generate individually and the only revenue that is shared in the NFL is 40% of the gate.

Ok, now you're just being silly and argumentative. You dont actually believe what you are writing do you?

Why do you player haters even come here? What interest is it to you if hockey plays again?

 

[vanlady]

Sorry, but I didn't miss anything. I didn't list the TV money that they 'share' because splitting up the money generated by the league evenly among the 32 teams isn't revenue sharing. Revenue sharing is when teams share revenue that the teams generate individually and the only revenue that is shared in the NFL is 40% of the gate.

If what he meant to say is that the NFL cap works because of the TV money the league gets, he'd still be wrong. The league could get 10% of the TV money that they get and the system would still work because... and here's an amazing concept... SALARIES ARE TIED TO REVENUES!

I have a little article for you, substitute NHL for MLB and you will get the idea. And any league that pays a player a million dollars a game does NOT have player costs under control.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20020306daily.shtml

 

[degroat*]

Why do you player haters even come here? What interest is it to you if hockey plays again?

What interest is it if hockey plays again? Where the hell do you get off accusing me of not caring about the return of the NHL? Let me get this right... because I want a cap then I must not care about hockey? Because I don't agree with your absurd stance on this CBA, then I must not care about hockey? You are no different than any other pro-NHLPA person on this board... you can't say anything intelligent so you result to insults and BS.

 

[degroat*]

I have a little article for you, substitute NHL for MLB and you will get the idea. And any league that pays a player a million dollars a game does NOT have player costs under control.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20020306daily.shtml

Why are you posting another article by 'some hack known as a reporter'?

You already claimed that these people have no credibility. Or does that count when an article doesn't support your stance?

That said, I really hope you don't expect that joke of an article to support your stance. Maybe one of these days you'll begin to think things out for yourself instead of relying on others to do your analysis for you.

 

[thinkwild]

Why are you posting another article by 'some hack known as a reporter'?

You already claimed that these people have no credibility. Or does that count when an article doesn't support your stance?

That said, I really hope you don't expect that joke of an article to support your stance. Maybe one of these days you'll begin to think things out for yourself instead of relying on others to do your analysis for you.

Some hack? LOL.

 

[vanlady]

Why are you posting another article by 'some hack known as a reporter'?

You already claimed that these people have no credibility. Or does that count when an article doesn't support your stance?

That said, I really hope you don't expect that joke of an article to support your stance. Maybe one of these days you'll begin to think things out for yourself instead of relying on others to do your analysis for you.

Oh sorry I have dozens of articles for you. All say the same thing the NFL cap won't work in the NHL. So I will give you another one.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3084864

And here is the reason I hate the cap system

http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/pasquarelli_len/1339953.html

 

[thinkwild]

From an emotional standpoint, it kills you, because you work so hard to assemble a team and then the cap helps tear it apart," said Ravens vice president Ozzie Newsome. "

Some great links vanlady, thanks. Especially Sheehans.

Here's some other's i've posted before and am probably annoying some people with now.

NFL Cap a joke

NFL Cap Blows

NFL Parity equals mediocrity

 

[PecaFan]

Oh sorry I have dozens of articles for you. All say the same thing the NFL cap won't work in the NHL. So I will give you another one.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3084864

So yet again, we have another article saying that a cap *won't* stop big market clubs from paying for players they won't.

So yet again, I ask you: why is the NHLPA against a cap then? Since they're ineffective, and will have no impact on salaries.

 

[thinkwild]

How can you read these links and ask that question? Come on, really, you are too smart to ask that.

 

[vanlady]

So yet again, we have another article saying that a cap *won't* stop big market clubs from paying for players they won't.

So yet again, I ask you: why is the NHLPA against a cap then? Since they're ineffective, and will have no impact on salaries.

OK why should the players not trust the owners. I am attaching a link to a Ontario Supreme Court decision, this decision was upheld by the Canadian Supreme Court in 1997.

http://www.canlii.org/on/cas/onca/1994/1994onca10033.html

The owner used to control the player pension fund. Every year the owners would take the interest earned and split among themselves and then they would put it back into the pension fund as there annual contributions.

So the players once trusted the owners with control of there money, to run it honestly, they had to sue to get 42 million dollars back. Would you trust them with you checking account?

Here is another link for you. You tell me who is lying here

http://www.phillyflyers.com/NewsandNotesDetail.asp?Record=1200

 

[triggrman]

Some great links vanlady, thanks. Especially Sheehans.

Here's some other's i've posted before and am probably annoying some people with now.

NFL Cap a joke

NFL Cap Blows

NFL Parity equals mediocrity

All of those links are from 2000. After time the problems have been heavily out weighed by the benefits.

 

[Malefic74]

As long as the agent and the player got to announce that they got a contract that big, whether he actually gets the money isnt important, its just bling bling? No NFL team will ever be saddled with management responsibility or accountability for their contract decisions. Handy system.

Sure as long as you don't mind losing. A lot. The Cincinnati Bengals. In the early 90s the Bengals were the powerhouse team of the AFC Central. Boomer Esiason flinging bombs deep down the field, solid running with Brooks and Woods and a fast, opportunistic defense. They even went to the Super Bowl in 89 losing 20-16 to the Montana and Rice 49ers. So what happened?

Irresposible management, ridiculous personnel decisions, bad drafts and a total lack of understanding of how to acquire free agents under the existing cap structure. And not just for one season. They became the Bungles for 15 years! Accountability? 3 coaches and the bulk of their staff... all fired.

Handy system indeed. If you do the job right (Scott Pioli - New England Patriots) you get rewarded. If you do it wrong, (Mike Brown - Cincinnatti Bengals) you are punished.

 

[degroat*]

Oh sorry I have dozens of articles for you. All say the same thing the NFL cap won't work in the NHL. So I will give you another one.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3084864

And here is the reason I hate the cap system

http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/pasquarelli_len/1339953.html

Why are you posting another article by 'some hack known as a reporter'?

You already claimed that these people have no credibility. Or does that count when an article doesn't support your stance?

That said, I really hope you don't expect that joke of an article to support your stance. Maybe one of these days you'll begin to think things out for yourself instead of relying on others to do your analysis for you.

 

[PecaFan]

You tell me who is lying here

Lying is irrelevant. You didn't answer the question.

Since you and other NHLPA types here have proven that a salary cap doesn't hold back salaries, they continue to grow, and big market teams can get around salary caps whenever they want and spend as much as they want, what difference does it make if an owner lies? He says he lost money, but he actually made money. Big frickin' deal, it's irrelevant because it doesn't affect how much the players make.

It's the same as 1994. The players lost nearly half their salary, before they signed a deal. They could have signed that deal the first day, kept all that lost salary, and enjoyed the massive stupidity of the owners.

So give in now, let the owners have their ineffectual salary cap, and start making money again.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Revenue-sharing without a salary cap doesn't work, because where's the incentive for the smaller markets to actually spend the revenue-sharing money and not pocket it? There isn't, which is why the Minnesota Twins owner (Carl Pohlad) pockets the change he gets from revenue-sharing in baseball, rather than spend it on talent. Oh, and he just happens to be the richest of all Major League owners.

If there's so much mistrust in the NHL owners by the PA, then why would they 'trust' owners to put the money back into their teams, while the Detroit's, Philly's and Toronto's continue to drive salaries up--luxury tax be damned?

 

[me2]

Missed opportunities for the NHLPA. I'd swear these people have their heads in the sand. They should be out there running these ideas up the flag pole and getting the media to salute. Great PR victories waiting to happen if they get the courage up to come out of their bunker. If there is to be a salary cap it needs big revenue sharing to ensure the weaker teams have a chance to match the payrolls and therefore allow the salary cap to be higher again. If the NHLPA was winning the PR they could sit on their hands, like the NHL is doing, they aren't they need to get active and go on the attack. They need to force the NHL to outline its plans for revenue sharing by putting up their own and demand the NHL counter. The NHLPA might have great lawyers but they've got hopeless PR people.

 

[SENSible1*]

Missed opportunities for the NHLPA. I'd swear these people have their heads in the sand. They should be out there running these ideas up the flag pole and getting the media to salute. Great PR victories waiting to happen if they get the courage up to come out of their bunker. If there is to be a salary cap it needs big revenue sharing to ensure the weaker teams have a chance to match the payrolls and therefore allow the salary cap to be higher again. If the NHLPA was winning the PR they could sit on their hands, like the NHL is doing, they aren't they need to get active and go on the attack.

The PA could push for a minimum cap that is only 2-3M less than the max cap. There are numerous ways for the PA to have a feild day while negotiating "cost certainty", but the PA simply is too stupid, lazy and greedy to take advantage.

 

[dawgbone]

If there's so much mistrust in the NHL owners by the PA, then why would they 'trust' owners to put the money back into their teams, while the Detroit's, Philly's and Toronto's continue to drive salaries up--luxury tax be damned?

Because it is money from other owners, not other players... so the PA is fine with that.

 

[Street Hawk]

True...

why should the players have non guaranteed contracts and the owners get guaranteed contracts.

i say, if the owners can break the contract because they are paying too much, its only fair if the player can do the same if they are being paid too little.

and dont tell me it happens NOW, because it doesnt. Yashin tried it and it didnt work, Tkachuk tried it and the team caved. There are no other examples of players succesfully reneging on a valid contract.

dr

Which is exactly why the buyout rate for an NHL contract needs to be reduced from the ridiculously high 2/3 of the remainder of a contract for players over 26.

The NHL teams SHOULD have to pay a penalty for cutting a deal short, but there's no way a player should get 66.7% of the rest of the contract. A team would only buy a player out if he is not performing up to the money of his contract. Be it a Leclair, Brind'Amour, Turgeon, etc. Something reasonable in the 25% range should be fair for both sides.

I saw that stupid 2 Minutes for Instigating with Burke and Healy and I found it almost appalling that Healy was complaining about how the players might only get 20 cents on the dollar..... Please.... A player should be happy to get 20 cents on the dollar if he's not performing up to expectations.

As for the opposite way around, hey if Players want to pay the team 25% of the rest of his contract to get out of it, fine by me.

The NFL doesn't have Guaranteed contracts, but they make up for that with Huge Signing Bonuses. So a guy might sign a 5 year 30 million dollar deal, and get 5 million or so of that up front. So, his yearly salary is then 5 million per season. If after 2 years he underperforms, he gets cut and his total earnings from those 2 years is 15 million dollars.

Now, with the NHL had a 25% buyout on contracts, then that same 5 year deal you'd pay the guy 6 million per season. After 2 years of underperformance, he'd earn 12 million and the 18 million @ a 25% buyout rate would be 4.5 million. For a total of 16.5 million over the 2 years that you had that player.

So, a 1.5 million dollar difference, but that might come out even depending on the signing bonus money.

So, I'm all for Guaranteed contracts, with a 25% buyout rate. Because the player still has those years to go and earn a salary, albeit a lower one, but if he can Re-establish himself, he might get a better deal later.

 

[degroat*]

I couldn't agree more about the 25% buyout. I suggested it here a little while ago in a CBA proposal I made. The one catch I added, however, would be that the buyout would not count towards the cap which would leave more money for the players.