The Question that continually gets danced around

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by John Flyers Fan, Dec 20, 2004.

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  1. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    Icewind Dale essentially brought it up the other day.

    Scenario

    Exact same seat, say front row of the 2nd level, right at center ice.

    Guy in Edmonton pays $40 cdn.

    Guy in Detroit pays $50 us.


    Does the guy paying $50 us. have the right to expect a better/more expensive product than the guy paying $40 cdn. ???
     
  2. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    yes, but the owners dont care. they have the power to make their franchise value rise dramatically and thats what they are going to do.

    to hell with hockey, they want their profit.

    barf.

    dr
     
  3. dulzhok

    dulzhok Registered User

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    If you invest 80+ million on a team, do you think it's OK to have a negative return on investent?

    Of course they want profit.
     
  4. dulzhok

    dulzhok Registered User

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    No.

    It's just different market dymanics.

    Like Betman says, what a fan pay for a ticket in Detroit doesn't affect ticket prices in Edmonton. But what Detroit pays for players affects everything (including ticket prices) in Edmonton.
     
  5. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    It's not just year-to-year profit/loss that matters.

    Over the past decade the Flyers probably lost in the neighborhood of $10 million, Over that same decade the value of the franchise has gone up by approx $150 million.
     
  6. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    and as they should. any team not making a profit can look themselves in the mirror and know exactly how to correct it.

    they choose not to. i dont care if they cant help themselves and that bankrupts them. They wont go poor over it.

    At teh end of the day, why would any of us peasants care how much money these mega rich lose ?

    DR
     
  7. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    I didn't say anything about the price of Detroit tickets affecting the price of tickets in Edmonton. Prices are set by what the market in each city. It comes down to how big & affluent is the fan base.

    The question is should a guy paying more expect a better/more expensive product ???
     
  8. Seachd

    Seachd Registered User

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    I guess he has the right to expect it, but if he truly believes it he should come back down to Earth.

    Better doesn't necessarily mean more expensive, and the quality of the team is determined by the players on the ice, not the prices on the tickets.

    Like dulzhok said, in Detroit, that guy's willing to pay a higher price for the same seat, regardless of what's on the ice. If he wants to pay less, he can take the stairs.
     
  9. dulzhok

    dulzhok Registered User

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    Still losing money in the present and indefinite future.

    For an 100 million dollar investment, you should be making atleast 20% ROI a year. Someone with 100 million can easily make 20% ROI elsewhere.
     
  10. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    Agreed, and that is why people that buy sports franchises are NOT, doing it as an investment. If they were truly looking for a place to make the biggest return for their $100-200 million, they would NEVER have bought an NHL team, (or an NBA/MLB team either).

    Buying sports franchises for those other than cable networks looking for programing, are an EGO purchase. The #1 goal isn't to make money. Would they like to make money ??? Certainly everyone does, but it isn't the #1 priority.
     
  11. dulzhok

    dulzhok Registered User

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    But there comes a point where the losses (and opportunity cost of not investing elsewhere) make it not worth it.

    That point has come for most NHL owners.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2004
  12. vanlady

    vanlady Registered User

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    No business in its first five years received a 20% ROI, as a matter of fact 90% lose money in the first five years

    So explain to me how in the first five years how franchise values in Nashville, Pheonix and Atlanta have gone from 80 million dollars to 130 million dollars?
     
  13. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    No.
    A guy going to see "Ocean's 12" in New York City is going to pay $10.50 for a ticket. Another guy going to the same movie in Nashville will pay $7.50. Does the first guy have a right to expect the film he sees to be about 40 percent better than the one showing in Nashville? Should the popcorn taste better? Should the seat be plusher? Should the usher be more courteous?
    Ticket prices are the result of local market forces much more than the product on the ice (or on the screen) itself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2004
  14. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    Does a guy paying $25000 tax have a right to expect better roads than his neigbour paying $10000 tax.
     
  15. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    They must chop 25% of the film out before showing it in Nashville.
     
  16. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    you think its fair to compare discretionary spending with taxes ?

    dr
     
  17. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    and movie production companies dont cap what actors make.

    how come ?

    dr
     
  18. quat

    quat winsome, loathsome

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    Well, how many people are going to buy a franchise that will lose them millions of dollars every year (keeping in mind that years down the road he may or may not even lose more money on the sale of said team... ie: what if they've sucked the whole time through bad management or crappy players...etc)?

    Certainly not enough to populate a league like the NHL.
     
  19. quat

    quat winsome, loathsome

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    lol :lol or make the people in Nashville watch it 25% longer... heh heh heh.
     
  20. quat

    quat winsome, loathsome

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    Oh come on man... Movies don't NEED competition... they don't want competition! The NHL would suck if there were no competition... you know, because it's a sport we kind of expect that. Well, at least some of the posters here seem to want that.

    "Please welcome your VANCOUVER CANUCKS !!!! " tonights opponents will be the "Surrey Mighty Midgets", that scrappy group of 11 year olds that have been grabbing some headline of late ! Parents please make certain your childeren have their helmets firmly strapped on before they step on the ice, as we expect the VANCOUVER CANUCKS to really be playing the body this evening.


    eeeexcelllent.
     
  21. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    no disrespect intended, but i dont see your point. movie companies dont need a cap to protect their profits. competition or not.

    dr
     
  22. quat

    quat winsome, loathsome

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    Well it's because they are fundamentally different situations. Yes they are both kinds of entertainment, but Dreamworks doesn't care if they raise the salary level so high that no one else can afford uh... some actor.

    It is important to the league that the majority of the teams can compete, or else the league falls appart. Hockey teams make money playing against other hockey teams... Movies make money if they are popular or not... I would say good, but often crappy movies make good dollars as well.
     
  23. Hockey_Nut99

    Hockey_Nut99 Guest

    What about the music industry? Singers get a percentage of the revenues unless they own their own record label. The more they sell the more they will make. Their salary is tied to revenue
     
  24. misterjaggers

    misterjaggers Registered User

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    In the real world, no.
     
  25. Pepper

    Pepper Registered User

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    In the perfect world, yes. In the current capitalistic world, hell no.

    I pay 13USD to get in to see the same movie here that you pay what 10USD to see over there. Should I have the right to expect a better movie than you?
     
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