TSN: The problems run deep in Ottawa

[50 in 07]

The problems run deep in Ottawa - Article - TSN
Interesting article by Yost. He basically mentions two major problems: goaltending and depth scoring. Obviously the decline and contracts of Anderson and Condon have been well discussed on these boards but I didn't realize how absolutely atrocious our bottom 6 has been.

In an era where ice time is much more smoothed and teams consistently roll four lines, Ottawa gets painstakingly little from their third and fourth lines. The combination of Zack Smith, Jean-Gabriel Pageau, Tom Pyatt, Nate Thompson, Alex Burrows, and Gabriel Dumont grade out as the least dynamic unit in the entire league.

So we have objectively the worst bottom 6 group, offensively, in the entire league.

Players like Thompson, Pyatt, Burrows, and Dumont were either targeted by the front office, desired by the head coach, or a combination of the two.

The contractual situation is where this gets messy. Teams get bad seasons from depth players all the time, but rarely are so many players inked on multi-year deals. Smith is signed through 2021. Pageau is signed through 2020. Burrows, Pyatt, Dumont, and Thompson are on through 2019. To recap: there isn’t a single player in this mess of a bottom-six that has an expiring contract.

And on top of that, these players were specifically sought after by the front office and/or coaching staff, and none of them are off the books this year. Yikes.

Click to read more...

 

[BatherSeason]

Be careful "Yost" is a very bad word for a lot of people around here.

 

[BankStreetParade]

To be fair, Pageau, Smith and Pyatt combined for 37 goals last year. Are you saying the management group should have foreseen those 3 players producing 14 goals combined to date? Smith is coming off of 25 and 16 goal seasons over the last two years. Pageau had 19 and 12 over those same two years. You can fault management for some things, but the precipitous offensive decline of two players who have produced well in their roles in the last 2 years is not something you can hang on them.

Also, Nate Thompson was never brought in to score goals. He's never been a goal scorer at any stage of his career. He's a through and through fourth liner. So it's a little disingenuous to single him out as not being a producer when he's never been a goal producer.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

To be fair, Pageau, Smith and Pyatt combined for 37 goals last year. Are you saying the management group should have foreseen those 3 players producing 14 goals combined to date? Smith is coming off of 25 and 16 goal seasons over the last two years. Pageau had 19 and 12 over those same two years. You can fault management for some things, but the precipitous offensive decline of two players who have produced well in their roles in the last 2 years is not something you can hang on them.

Also, Nate Thompson was never brought in to score goals. He's never been a goal scorer at any stage of his career. He's a through and through fourth liner. So it's a little disingenuous to single him out as not being a producer when he's never been a goal producer.

Pageau is the only one that's surprising in his decline. Most people know Smith and Pyatt are plugs. 25 to 16 is a big decline on its own but Smith has basically been a 5-7 goal guy for a whole calender year. He's just regressed to what he was before he got the chance to play with Stone. Burrows being a black hole of offense and human suffering should be expected. These are all guys Dorion signed. They're his failures to own.

 

[burf]

Also, Nate Thompson was never brought in to score goals. He's never been a goal scorer at any stage of his career. He's a through and through fourth liner. So it's a little disingenuous to single him out as not being a producer when he's never been a goal producer.

But that's exactly the problem. Management singled out and signed Thompson to a multi-year deal, when the role he plays is becoming redundant in today's NHL. He doesn't score and he doesn't drive possession, but for some reason management wanted him for multiple years?

Ditto for Dumont, especially at the expense of Didomenico, who actually did drive play as a 4th liner.

 

[Tak7]

Bigger concern should be how the team with the tightest budget in Canada, somehow has the most money committed against the cap heading into next year amongst said teams.

 

[BatherSeason]

Also, Nate Thompson was never brought in to score goals. He's never been a goal scorer at any stage of his career. He's a through and through fourth liner. So it's a little disingenuous to single him out as not being a producer when he's never been a goal producer.

This is my biggest critique on hockey culture. Why can we not have 4 lines of fast, skilled hockey players who drive possession? I know most won't agree or it won't ever change, but 4 scoring lines sounds like a better recipe for success than the traditional 2 scoring lines and 2 checking lines. "Intangibles" play too much of a role in NHL clubs building their teams, the Ottawa Senators seem to value this more than any other team in the league. Oh well, different topic for a different day.

 

[coladin]

To be fair, Pageau, Smith and Pyatt combined for 37 goals last year. Are you saying the management group should have foreseen those 3 players producing 14 goals combined to date? Smith is coming off of 25 and 16 goal seasons over the last two years. Pageau had 19 and 12 over those same two years. You can fault management for some things, but the precipitous offensive decline of two players who have produced well in their roles in the last 2 years is not something you can hang on them.

Also, Nate Thompson was never brought in to score goals. He's never been a goal scorer at any stage of his career. He's a through and through fourth liner. So it's a little disingenuous to single him out as not being a producer when he's never been a goal producer.

People are always looking for someone to blame, except the players.

 

[DJB]

Yost does what he does best. Cherry picks stats to suit his argument.

 

[BatherSeason]

Yost does what he does best. Cherry picks stats to suit his argument.

.

 

[OgieO]

He's right. Goaltending has been horrendous. That alone makes a massive difference in our position in the standings. Pageau and Smith have been under performing, and its been a big problem. Better production from them makes our bottom 6 average.

I understand the reasoning behind adding Burrows last year, but he needs to sit and someone more productive needs to be added. Solutions have to be from within (Chlapik, White, Paul, etc).

But goaltending is the biggest issue.

 

[branch]

Can't argue with his bottom 6 argument. That combination is dismal and none of them have any offense to their game.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

To be fair, Pageau, Smith and Pyatt combined for 37 goals last year. Are you saying the management group should have foreseen those 3 players producing 14 goals combined to date? Smith is coming off of 25 and 16 goal seasons over the last two years. Pageau had 19 and 12 over those same two years. You can fault management for some things, but the precipitous offensive decline of two players who have produced well in their roles in the last 2 years is not something you can hang on them.

Also, Nate Thompson was never brought in to score goals. He's never been a goal scorer at any stage of his career. He's a through and through fourth liner. So it's a little disingenuous to single him out as not being a producer when he's never been a goal producer.

To your last paragraph, why is here. theres enough talent on earth that most of you forwards if not all should have the ability to chip in offensively.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

He's right. Goaltending has been horrendous. That alone makes a massive difference in our position in the standings. Pageau and Smith have been under performing, and its been a big problem. Better production from them makes our bottom 6 average.

I understand the reasoning behind adding Burrows last year, but he needs to sit and someone more productive needs to be added. Solutions have to be from within (Chlapik, White, Paul, etc).

But goaltending is the biggest issue.

Sure, but what about the constant 40 SA against given up with quality chances? Does that not also count towards anything to combine with bad goaltending? Anderson has been bad, but he still ranks 21st in expected save pct. based on goalies who have played 1000 minutes so far this season. Not a great ranking.

But yes, he has definitely not been good this year and hasn't stolen too many games like he usually does.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Yost does what he does best. Cherry picks stats to suit his argument.

Well this article was low hanging fruit to be sure. But it’s not difficult to see that it actually is an issue lmao.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Bigger concern should be how the team with the tightest budget in Canada, somehow has the most money committed against the cap heading into next year amongst said teams.

It’s iwnerships fault that management mishandles the dollars he does give them

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Yost does what he does best. Cherry picks stats to suit his argument.

Yeah I hate cherry picked stats, I hate how the NHL cherry picks stats on who gets into the playoffs. 15-18-9 should get you in the playoffs.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

To be fair, Pageau, Smith and Pyatt combined for 37 goals last year. Are you saying the management group should have foreseen those 3 players producing 14 goals combined to date? Smith is coming off of 25 and 16 goal seasons over the last two years. Pageau had 19 and 12 over those same two years. You can fault management for some things, but the precipitous offensive decline of two players who have produced well in their roles in the last 2 years is not something you can hang on them.

Also, Nate Thompson was never brought in to score goals. He's never been a goal scorer at any stage of his career. He's a through and through fourth liner. So it's a little disingenuous to single him out as not being a producer when he's never been a goal producer.

If he isn't here to score goals then what the hell is the point of him? We have enough defensive players and PKers, also why give that type of player 2 years, and same for Burrows. I can definitely blame those on management.

 

[Tak7]

It’s iwnerships fault that management mishandles the dollars he does give them

LOL, this makes no sense at all.

If mom gives you $50, and you misspend $50, it's not mom's fault that she gave you $50. It's yours!

It doesn't matter if mom gave your brother $100.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

LOL, this makes no sense at all.

If mom gives you $50, and you misspend $50, it's not mom's fault that she gave you $50. It's yours!

It doesn't matter if mom gave your brother $100.

I know lol. I was being sarcastic.theres this idea that ownership doesn’t allow management to buy away their mistakes so it’s nelnyks fault. But I mean. The mistakes this management team makes are pretty avoidable with better personnel in place

 

[Alex1234]

Bigger concern should be how the team with the tightest budget in Canada, somehow has the most money committed against the cap heading into next year amongst said teams.

Exactly
Dorion is spending like Amazon is the Sens owner

 

[Tak7]

Exactly
Dorion is spending like Amazon is the Sens owner

The entire organization is at odds with itself; an owner who needs to approve everything, but is letting his GM spend despite being on a budget?

 

[swiftwin]

Our 3rd line has been worse, but our 4th line has been better. Thompson >>> Kelly

 

[DrEasy]

We do need to talk about Pageau. What's up with him? I wasn't actually opposed to having Hoff on his line assuming he could provide some offense, but that didn't work at all. I just don't see the explosiveness in him anymore, that ability he had to go after the puck holder, substitute himself with him and run away with the puck. IMO there's probably some injury nobody's talking about.

 

[solidprospect]

Re: the article

It's not like our top 6 is pushing for top of the league either.