The Pittsburgh/Detroit back-to-back Cup Finals in retrospect

c9777666

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Another year, no Cup Final rematch with PIT/NSH going out in the second round.

Looking back, it seems that those back-to-back Penguin/Red Wings Cup Final years seems like the exception rather than the norm. Especially compared to the NBA where we seem to be headed for Cleveland/Golden State part infinity. (No World Series rematch since 1977-1978 Yankees Dodgers, only 1 Super Bowl rematch ever with Bills-Cowboys in 1993-94)

Since the WHA merger, that's the only Cup Final rematch in consecutive years outside of Islanders/Oilers.

There were a few close calls in that span (Blackhawks and Rangers came close in 2014-2015, but each lost a home game 7 in the conference finals. Colorado-New Jersey almost happened in 2000 a year before they did hook up, Oilers had a pair of 2/3 years with the Flyers and Bruins)

Considering how NHL unpredictability is different compared to the NBA, looking back, whereas a Cup Finals rematch is rare, what was the feeling about 2009? If anything, I think getting the same matchup 2 straight years in this recent era kinda feels as surprising as the fact we got a Pens repeat a few years down the line. Good luck trying to predict a Vegas Cup rematch next year with whoever wins TB/WSH.

I don't recall PIT/DET being inevitable going into those '09 playoffs.

What was the feeling about that as a possibility before it became a reality? I remember teams like Chicago/San Jose/Washington/Boston got a lot of buzz and PIT/DET was far from a certainty.

And looking back, how much of an anomaly does that seem considering we have gotten no closer to a rematch before or since?

With the unpredictability of the NHL Playoffs, I think it might be a while before we see another PIT/DET situation.
 

silkyjohnson50

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After Detroit signed Hossa it felt like only injuries were going to keep them from going back-to-back. I know that sounds crazy being that hockey is not like basketball, but the team that just dominated the regular season and playoffs just added one of the best 2-way wingers in the game for nothing.

And with Pittsburgh already making it to the Finals that early in the Crosby/Malkin era, everybody pretty much knew that it wasn't going to be their last trip.

I remember several folks predicting a rematch with the same outcome.
 
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daver

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I don't recall PIT/DET being inevitable going into those '09 playoffs.

What was the feeling about that as a possibility before it became a reality? I remember teams like Chicago/San Jose/Washington/Boston got a lot of buzz and PIT/DET was far from a certainty.

Detroit put on a clinic in their Cup run; they were well positioned to repeat. The Pens were the prototypical young team with incredible talent that got much needed experience in 2008. I can't think of another season going back to the '90s or even the '80s where the odds for a rematch would have been so high.

Oilers vs. Philly or Boston maybe?
 
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tarheelhockey

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Historically it just doesn’t happen very often. There are 8 teams in each bracket, the odds are heavily against the same two advancing to the Finals in consecutive years.

That said, I do recall at the time feeling that both Detroit and Pittsburgh had teams which seemed likely to return, and it wasn’t a huge surprise that they ended up in a rematch. Detroit was the good-old team and Pittsburgh was the good-young team.
 

Hatter of the Beach

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I remember several folks predicting a rematch with the same outcome.

Can you really blame them? It looked like the Wings were going to sweep until the “questionable” officiating in game 3.

Hilariously enough, I think an arguement could be made that the better team lost in each finals due to injuries. 08 Malkin was playing with broken ribs, and in 09 the Wings had Hossa with a torn rotator cuff, Datsyuk nursing wrist and ankle injuries looking like a shell of his usual self, and Lidstrom literally having to get stitches for a Torn Scrotum (not kidding/trying to be funny) after Sharp nut shotted him in the WCF

That’s 3 of Detroit’s 4 best players, and another valuable performer, Franzen, had Gary Robert turn his brain to mush.
 

MartyOwns

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Lidstrom literally having to get stitches for a Torn Scrotum (not kidding/trying to be funny) after Sharp nut shotted him in the WCF

what? holy shit they shouldve given detroit the cup anyway, and not just the kind of cup that protects your bean bag
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

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I think the Red Wings would have likely repeated, if Lidstrom and Datsyuk weren’t in the worst ways. They were really injured that spring. Filppula just couldn’t contain Malkin the way Datsyuk could, and Malkin went big in the finals as a result.
 
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Empoleon8771

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It's kinda funny, you can easily argue that the wrong team won the cup in each year. The 2008 Penguins were a stronger team than the 2009 Penguins, and the 2009 Wings were a stronger team than the 2008 Wings. Funny how that played out.
 

LarKing

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It's kinda funny, you can easily argue that the wrong team won the cup in each year. The 2008 Penguins were a stronger team than the 2009 Penguins, and the 2009 Wings were a stronger team than the 2008 Wings. Funny how that played out.

Can’t necessarily speak for the Pens but Detroit definitely wasn’t stronger in 09 despite adding Hossa. The whole team defensively was not nearly as strong. Goaltending always seemed to let in a goal late in the game. The offensive firepower made up for it a bit but that 08 team was far more balanced.
 
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tony d

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Those were 2 good finals series. I think Boston/Chicago is the only cup final since the 2004-2005 lockout to have been better than the 2 Cup finals betwen Pittsburgh and Detroit.
 

bobholly39

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I never felt as strongly into the certainty of a cup final rematch at any point in the last 10 years as i did this year.

Pitt and Nashville seemed as likely a a rematch as i can remember.


2009 is a long time ago and I don't remember the exact dynamics to say how it compared.
 

bobholly39

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It's kinda funny, you can easily argue that the wrong team won the cup in each year. The 2008 Penguins were a stronger team than the 2009 Penguins, and the 2009 Wings were a stronger team than the 2008 Wings. Funny how that played out.

I always felt it played out perfectly. Parallel to NYI/EDM in the 80s.

The vets win the first year.
The young guns win the 2nd year.
 

Luigi Lemieux

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It wasn't a surprising rematch, especially after the pens fired Therrien and went on their huge streak to close out the season. But it also wasn't the most expected matchup. I remember most were expecting a Boston vs SJ final with the Joe Thornton facing his old team storyline.
 

Luigi Lemieux

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Can’t necessarily speak for the Pens but Detroit definitely wasn’t stronger in 09 despite adding Hossa. The whole team defensively was not nearly as strong. Goaltending always seemed to let in a goal late in the game. The offensive firepower made up for it a bit but that 08 team was far more balanced.
I think in both cases it was just on paper that the 09 wings and 08 pens look stronger than their cup winning counterparts. For the pens Crosby/Malkin/Staal were only 20/21/19 in 2008, just by virtue of being a year older in 2009 and the experience they got in the 2008 final they were massively improved.
 

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That was the 2009 Pens forward group. I still marval at that group. Sid, Geno, Staal center depth won them that Cup. Everyone else...passengers at the right place and time.
 

acor

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It wasn't inevitable, but certainly most possible outcome... Detroit was a team to beat, and Pens were hot team on the rise.
 

SirKillalot

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After Detroit signed Hossa it felt like only injuries were going to keep them from going back-to-back.
Which is exactly what happened. Injuries and Malkin. Also Penguins depth who weren't all that in the regular season got little attention for their great play in the playoffs.

I'm glad Hossa went on to win three cups after losing back to back.
 

justafan22

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Kunitz-Crosby-Guerin
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Dupuis-Adams-Satan/Sykora

That was the 2009 Pens forward group. I still marval at that group. Sid, Geno, Staal center depth won them that Cup. Everyone else...passengers at the right place and time.

Was your defense something like Letang, goligoski, gonchar, orpik, scuderi eaton?
Add Hossa going to Detroit to play with Prime Datsyuk and Zetterberg, it's not a shock that a team with Lidstrom and Rafalski as your top pairing won the west, with the Hawks a year away from being good.
 

Big Daddy Cane

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I believe it was…

Gonchar – Orpik
Eaton – Letang
Gill – Scuderi

With Boucher dressing as a 7th for a couple of games.

That was not an impressive team on paper.
 

Luigi Lemieux

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I believe it was…

Gonchar – Orpik
Eaton – Letang
Gill – Scuderi

With Boucher dressing as a 7th for a couple of games.

That was not an impressive team on paper.
On paper it's one of the weaker cup winners of the era. But it was also Malkin and Crosby at the top of their games. They dragged that team to a cup win.
 
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TheMalkinEra

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I'm sorry but those 2 finals were some of the most dull boring hockey I've seen, I'm glad the Pens won in 2009, but it was frustrating watching star players not allowed to be stars. It would be like having the Cleveland/Golden State playing back to back finals and the average game was 81-79 slugfest, where none of the star players on either team standing out.

Between those 2 finals, the Pens beat the Red Wings 7-6 in crazy regular season game which Jordan Staal had a hat trick leading Pens to 3 goal comeback. That game was way more fun to watch then any of the 13 final games between those 2 teams.
 

Empoleon8771

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Can’t necessarily speak for the Pens but Detroit definitely wasn’t stronger in 09 despite adding Hossa. The whole team defensively was not nearly as strong. Goaltending always seemed to let in a goal late in the game. The offensive firepower made up for it a bit but that 08 team was far more balanced.

I think in both cases it was just on paper that the 09 wings and 08 pens look stronger than their cup winning counterparts. For the pens Crosby/Malkin/Staal were only 20/21/19 in 2008, just by virtue of being a year older in 2009 and the experience they got in the 2008 final they were massively improved.

Yeah, this is exactly what I was talking about. The 2009 Penguins were a better team than the 2008 Penguins, but the 2008 Penguins looked a lot better on paper due to having Hossa and Malone. I thought it was the same way with the Wings. The 2008 Wings only seemed to lose Hasek, who wasn't even that good at that point, while adding Hossa. All of the top 13 scorers in the regular season for the Wings in 2008 (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Cleary, Hudler, Holmstrom, Samuelsson, Franzen, Filppula, Kronwall, Draper and Lebda) were all on the 2009 team and all had comparable or better seasons.

Yeah, looking at their contract chart from 2008 makes me realize this is accurate. Hasek was the only notable UFA on that 2008 team, they only lost him, Drake (retired) and some guy named Hartigan.
 
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