The New Jersey Devils Defense

[NJDevs26]

One thing I 'do' remember pre-lockout is Lou guaranteed Larsson wouldn't be staying in the AHL this year. There has to be a trade if Lou isn't just talking out of his ***.

Whether that trade comes sooner or later is up for debate. You 'could' justify rotating eight D for a short while in a compressed schedule (especially when half those D are 30+'s that haven't played for the most part), but really it's gotta be settled sooner or later. You can't have it hanging over the team like a cloud for too long.

 

[The Wumpus]

Looking beyond this season: we're not going to have room for Merrill or Urbom without moving contracts. They can't stay in development forever.

Facepalming at that Salvador contract.

 

[devils1119]

Why don't we just roll 7 defensemen and have Kovy doubleshift on the 4th line? Problem solved.

 

[NJDevs26]

Looking beyond this season: we're not going to have room for Merrill or Urbom without moving contracts. They can't stay in development forever.

Facepalming at that Salvador contract.

Zidlicky's a FA after this year, Tallinder's disposable and Volch is a buyout candidate this offseason, or next if he doesn't pick it up. They can make room - someone's going to have to go now as is, unless we play two games with eight D and someone gets hurt for a while. Or they can trade one of those guys (Merill/Urbom)for a young forward.

 

[DevilChuk*]

Why don't we just roll 7 defensemen and have Kovy doubleshift on the 4th line? Problem solved.

More so because of the problems it would cause with the defense.

The issue isn't roster space, it's more you can't have a defense gel when every 3rd shift you are playing with a different partner.

Consistency is necessary for d pairings much more than offensive lines, IMO.

Not to mention reduced ice time for everyone which can be both a positive and a negative.

I fully expect/hope a move to be made with most likely Tallinder being the odd man out.

 

[Comparison Ford]

Larsson is a cornerstone for the franchise now. He gets a spot I say and its his too lose.

I would go with:
Greene -- Fayne
Tallinder -- Larsson
Salvador -- Zidlicky

This will be the defense. So happy that hockey is back and we're all arguing again!!

oh ****. forgot about Volchenkov...welp

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

There is always a difference when 20 of those minutes are sheltered and 14 can be hard minutes. Not saying that is the case here but..

Yeah, it's pretty much not.

http://www.inlouwetrust.com/2012/10...enkov-be-a-top-4-defenseman-for-the-nj-devils

http://www.inlouwetrust.com/2012/4/18/2957316/the-fall-of-anton-volchenkov

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67+38

Besides, if Volchenkov was matching up against top competition as well as getting top PK time, there's no way he'd be below 20 minutes a night, let alone 14 at even strength.

 

[DevilChuk*]

This will be the defense. So happy that hockey is back and we're all arguing again!!

No way Volchenkov isn't in the lineup, at least for this season.

 

[Oroku Saki*]

I'm calling a Tallinder trade. Maybe we deal with the Stars again.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

I'm calling a Tallinder trade. Maybe we deal with the Stars again.

Stars would be good too, lots of young forwards. Stars, Isles, or Senators please!

 

[turkulad]

I saw some of your forward rosters lacking a left winger to play either on the 2nd or 3rd line. This got me thinking, if maybe Mason Raymond would be a good fit for you guys, in exchange for a defenseman that could take Keith Ballard's spot as a third pairing guy (but with a cheaper contract)? Do you see a fit?

 

[apice3*]

Never understood the point of rolling 7 D-men in one game unless one is a specialist. Seems like the only reason to do it is to keep peace in the lockerroom. It just dilutes the minutes. Double shifting Kovy is not something I want to see for an entire season.

 

[apice3*]

I saw some of your forward rosters lacking a left winger to play either on the 2nd or 3rd line. This got me thinking, if maybe Mason Raymond would be a good fit for you guys, in exchange for a defenseman that could take Keith Ballard's spot as a third pairing guy (but with a cheaper contract)? Do you see a fit?

Tallinder if you want him.

 

[turkulad]

Tallinder if you want him.

The answer I was expecting and hoping for. Did I understand correctly reading your recent discussions, that in a way Tallinder hasn't really lost a step lately to make him a liability or anything, but him being excluded from a majority of your last year run highlights due to injury just makes him the odd man out? Because I think this trade would be really beneficial for us both. As long as Tallinder can still be considered a good third pair guy.

 

[apice3*]

Some people will point to Tallinder's CORSI and other metrics to prove he's a good defender. He hasn't lost a step in terms of skating, but I haven't been impressed with him since he signed here. Seems like whenever a goal is scored because a D-man is in the wrong spot, it's because Tallinder is in the wrong spot or a D-man is rotating to cover his mistake. I feel like in the time he's been here, he always seems to chase skaters at the most inopportune time.

His blood clot didn't make him the odd man out. I think his relatively cheap contract just makes him easy to move to a team who needs a D-man. I don't particularly care for Mason Raymond, but I'd take that deal if nothing else presented itself. Maybe add a pick or prospect from either side to balance out.

 

[Devils731]

The answer I was expecting and hoping for. Did I understand correctly reading your recent discussions, that in a way Tallinder hasn't really lost a step lately to make him a liability or anything, but him being excluded from a majority of your last year run highlights due to injury just makes him the odd man out? Because I think this trade would be really beneficial for us both. As long as Tallinder can still be considered a good third pair guy.

Tallinder may be the best defender the Devils have. The Devils have a bunch of #2/3 type of guys and Tallinder is right in the mix with them.

I would imagine one of the Devils defenseman is available, and it may be Tallinder, but I don't think it's because he's worse than any of the other defenseman.

 

[Brodeur]

Looking beyond this season: we're not going to have room for Merrill or Urbom without moving contracts. They can't stay in development forever.

Facepalming at that Salvador contract.

I would be fine with Merrill having at least one full AHL season. He played 42 games as a freshman, 19 last year, and probably about 19 this year. Nothing wrong with the Detroit model of calling up players when they're overripe. Nik Kronwall was 24 when he finally cracked their roster full time. Same thing might happen with Brendan Smith.

Just a listing of who we had under contract:

2013-14
NHL (7): Salvador, Larsson, Tallinder, Volchenkov, Greene, Fayne, Urbom
AHL: Gelinas, Merrill, Burlon, Scarlett

2014-15
NHL (7): Salvador, Larsson, Volchenkov, Greene, Urbom, Merrill, Gelinas
AHL: Burlon, Scarlett, Severson

2015-16
NHL (7): Larsson, Volchenkov, Urbom, Merrill, Gelinas, Scarlett, Burlon
AHL: Severson

And that's making the major assumption that everybody pans out as expected. Depth is nice thing to have as well. That would help us avoid the gong show that MacLean had in having to dress guys like Magnan, Eckford, Fraser, and Corrente due to injuries.

 

[Devils731]

Yeah, it's pretty much not.

http://www.inlouwetrust.com/2012/10...enkov-be-a-top-4-defenseman-for-the-nj-devils

http://www.inlouwetrust.com/2012/4/18/2957316/the-fall-of-anton-volchenkov

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67+38

Besides, if Volchenkov was matching up against top competition as well as getting top PK time, there's no way he'd be below 20 minutes a night, let alone 14 at even strength.

Why did you post Volchenkov's numbers for 2 seasons ago from behind the net?

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67+38

Those are last seasons numbers.

I might point out that Volchenkov and Salvador(and Tallinder when he played) start more in the defensive zone, which will pull down Corsi and increase shots against.

Despite this, Volchenkov was easily allowing the least number of shots per 60 minutes than any of the other defenseman.

I'm not saying Volchenkov is amazing and the best defenseman the Devils had, but he played very solid last season. That's what my eyes saw and the numbers suggest was he pretty good as well. None of the regulars played poorly on the Devils defense last season

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Numbers aren't really gonna tell the story for defensmen imo. Tallinder, Volch, and possibly Zidlicky( I'd rather not) can be moved, regardless of any stat that anyone cites. The eye test proves they're all pretty meh and are of less value to the team as of now than a serviceable 2nd or 3rd line forward.

 

[turkulad]

Numbers aren't really gonna tell the story for defensmen imo. Tallinder, Volch, and possibly Zidlicky( I'd rather not) can be moved, regardless of any stat that anyone cites. The eye test proves they're all pretty meh and are of less value to the team as of now than a serviceable 2nd or 3rd line forward.

Last thing I want to mention in this spot is a brilliant assessment of why Raymond would fit a team that particular spot open, by Reign Nateo in the Luongo-Toronto-discussion:

"Raymond is one of those guys that the fans don't want, but coaches would love to have.

He's very coachable, very fast and plays hard at both ends. He's constantly using his speed to back-check and break up plays, usually coming from nowhere to catch people. Add to that he should be able to score 20 goals in the right situation pretty easily, and I'm sure lots of coaches would want him on their team. Does the little things that fans usually miss. He's not super valuable or anything, but he's far from "useless" or "terrible." Same with Bozak. Look past the stat sheets sometimes folks...

So before I hijack this anymore, thanks for your answers. At least a Raymond-Tallinder based deal doesn't seem to be totally bonkers.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Last thing I want to mention in this spot is a brilliant assessment of why Raymond would fit a team that particular spot open, by Reign Nateo in the Luongo-Toronto-discussion:



So before I hijack this anymore, thanks for your answers. At least a Raymond-Tallinder based deal doesn't seem to be totally bonkers.

I'd gladly take Raymond for Tallinder. He's not great but he's super fast and better than any of our current options.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I could see a Raymond-Josefson-Clarkson line doing big things for us

 

[Saugus]

How'd Lou sign Fayne for 1.3

Black magic. Also, the RFA rules helped.

If the coaches don't think Larsson is a better option than two of our other d-men, he will be in the ahl. They will not sacrifice his development to have him in the press box

I think that is unlikely though. Larsson will earn a spot, and they'll make room for him.

Why don't we just roll 7 defensemen and have Kovy doubleshift on the 4th line? Problem solved.

I am uneasy about deliberately choosing to doubleshift Kovy. Every now and then on the fly during a game it's fine, but we shouldn't do it on purpose.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

Why did you post Volchenkov's numbers for 2 seasons ago from behind the net?

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67+38

Those are last seasons numbers.

I might point out that Volchenkov and Salvador(and Tallinder when he played) start more in the defensive zone, which will pull down Corsi and increase shots against.

Despite this, Volchenkov was easily allowing the least number of shots per 60 minutes than any of the other defenseman.

I'm not saying Volchenkov is amazing and the best defenseman the Devils had, but he played very solid last season. That's what my eyes saw and the numbers suggest was he pretty good as well. None of the regulars played poorly on the Devils defense last season

Oops my bad, screwed up that link. Anyway, leading the team in shots allowed is probably not hard when you're playing some of the easiest minutes on the team and playing low minutes at that. I know those stats are rated per 60, but I think playing less minutes (against easier players than the rest of the D) makes it easier to perform well when you're needed.

Tallinder started more often in the defensive zone against better competition and still finished in the offensive zone more often (with a higher relative corsi), while playing more minutes.

I don't think Volchenkov is a bad defenseman, but it's clear Deboer either doesn't trust something about his game or simply isn't using him correctly. In either case, if I had to pick between Volchenkov and Tallinder for this shortened season, I pick Tallinder.

However, Tallinder is definitely the easier guy to move (especially to some of these teams that are starting to pay attention to advanced stats, like Gillis and the 'Nucks), and I'd have no problem with Volchenkov on our 3rd pairing if it means Lou can move Tallinder for a forward.

 

[Bologna 1]

raymond for tallinder swap? seems like it would make sense for both sides in certain ways. im down, you can always use speed up front.