The new and improved concussion thread

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Kimota

ROY DU NORD!!!
Nov 4, 2005
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Full helmet protection sounds good, but I recall reading that players are more aggressive when wearing full facial protection than not.

So it may not have the desired impact vis a vis concussions.

I believe to avoid it completely, both hockey and football would have to de-protect themselves as far equipements and style.

Hockey had far less head injuries when they had no helmets cause players had to be more responsible. Even during fights, when there was no helmets, you rarely see guys falling head-first on the ice and there was rarely any knocked down during fights. Bear in mind I'm not refering to fights per se but more toward responsability.

As for Football, I think it could become closer to Rugby. Less tendencies toward crashing and more toward man-to-man pushing(yet still displaying body strenght).
 

sandysan

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Dec 7, 2011
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As a baseline, what percentage of the none impact sports playing public have signs
Of CTE?
If any?

what are these signs ? Its a diagnosis that occurs post mortem. Right now it is largely being tested predominantly in people who play contact sports or patientsthat present with neurological problems that play or have played contact sports. The likelihood that some accountant at cigna has his brain sectioned for IHC after dying in a car crash seems pretty remote to me.

The hernandez " extreme CTE" was offered up by his lawyer, and as it had been mentioned, it wasn't like he made the best decisions prior to joining the NFL.

but those other leagues don't have the pockets of the NFL so............
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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...'nough said...

.... well, not really, I havent had my say yet. :naughty: ..... and good for Shawn Stuckey (Peluso's Attorney, former NFL Linebacker, voted "1 of the Top 100 Lawyers in California" though I think he might reside in Minnesota). Those Subpoena's absolutely warranted as outlined therein.... of course.... I'm not a Lawyer nor do I play one on TV but still.... seems beyond reasonable common sense to me. Processes here between the League & the Teams. Entirely relevant & important that those 3 guys be deposed, questioned.
 

Llama19

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Jan 19, 2013
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Four junior hockey players diagnosed with CTE, researcher says

To quote:

"A researcher at Boston University says she has diagnosed chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE, in the brains of four former junior hockey players.

Neuropathologist Dr. Ann McKee made the diagnoses over the past two years. Each of the four former junior players – none of whom advanced to the National Hockey League – committed suicide before the age of 30, she said."

Source: http://www.tsn.ca/four-junior-hockey-players-diagnosed-with-cte-researcher-says-1.730445
 

Fenway

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Aaron Hernandez lawyers drop CTE suit against NFL, Patriots


Lawyers for the estate of former New England Patriots star Aaron Hernandez on Friday dropped a concussion-related lawsuit that they recently brought against the team and the National Football League but said they plan to refile the case in another jurisdiction.
Attorneys for the estate wrote in a brief filing in US District Court in Boston that they were dismissing the case “without prejudice,” a legal term meaning they can refile the suit at a later date.

“As of the date of filing this motion, the Complaint initiating this action has not been served upon Defendants,” the document said.

Jose Baez, a lawyer for the estate who also represented Hernandez during his second murder trial, said the plaintiffs plan to refile the suit in another court, but he declined further comment.
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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Wishful thinking?

Hard to say if "wishful thinking" having not read the book. The article he wrote fairly brief, high on philosophy, low on details, specifics. But thats Ken Dryden. Ask him what time it is and he'll build you watch, explaining what purpose & the importance all the cogs' & wheels... droning on & on.... ZzzzzZzzzzzzz....... However, by his own admission in the article "accidents will happen" resulting in concussions. A deflected puck, someone unprepared taking a hit & falling awkwardly, head hitting the ice, the boards, a goalpost, another player or whatever. The first thing kids are taught when playing the game is that you keep your head up at all times, your stick on the ice if engaged in the play. However, it was/is perfectly acceptable to hit someone carrying (we rarely see players carrying the puck anymore, all passing) the puck with their head down provided its a "clean check", stick & elbows down, check delivered to the upper body... Stevens on Lindros, Quinn on Orr, Gadsby on Horton etc & each case major damage, concussions.

So how do you fix that? Cant hit someone with their head down? Im not talking late hits or blindsiders. I mean clean hits delivered at speed upper or even lower body resulting in whiplash, head hitting ice, boards, post. Its my opinion this situation is systemic, starts in minor hockey, entry level on up, players "over-equipped" with helmets & cages, Robo Cop body armor, composite sticks, "hitting" rather than "checking", too many late hits, the Rules not being enforced, the Code eliminated with the institution of the Instigator Rule whereby players themselves would mete out justice to anyone targeting the head, and targeting the head btw pre-helmet era absolutely verboten..... And of course the counter-argument to that is "sure, but back then no one understood the ramifications, concussions going unrecognized, just got his Bell Rung, be fine, suck it up Buttercup". Well, weve come a long way since then, too far in fact, the NHL in messing with the Rules, removing the Center Ice Red Line (no brakes, too much speed, that needs to be put back) & creating the Trapezoid (Goalies need to be able to play the puck in the corners etc in order to help avoid high speed high impact hits) while equipment "advances" have in fact been retrograde, responsible for much of the damage being wrought.

The way the games taught, coached, micro-managed. Drydens absolutely correct that there is no way to completely eradicate concussions from the game but that it can be minimized, however.... to do so will require a sea change, complete re-think of the game top to bottom, rolling back, dispensing with various rule changes, equipment manufacturers on-board with "soft" shoulder padding, banning composites, banning cages & face shields (players who are injured, stitches, broken nose or whatever who do play using a face guard to protect the injury not permitted to play at all) and on & on & on. This is not just me saying this. Ive heard the same from all kinds of people including the likes of Bobby Orr, Bobby Hull & countless dozens upon dozens of other former NHL players, Coaches, Referee's & Administrators. Concussions cant be completely eliminated but the potential can & with the advances made, being made in diagnosis & treatment..... Be interesting to read Drydens book, see what he recommends.
 

danielpalfredsson

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Aug 14, 2013
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Maybe his tact is poor, but he's right.

I'm not commenting on players from a previous era who are suing on the premise that sports leagues may have withheld knowledge about concussions, etc etc, but now that it's all out in the open, if you're going to play hockey and football in 2017 you should be doing so accepting that you're probably going to suffer at least some form of head trauma and potentially CTE.

I guess it becomes a grey area when we're talking about children's sports, and then that becomes the big debate, is it ethical to put out children/teens in sports that could cause them head trauma which might have a prolonged impact on their life. Especially since these children and younger teens do not have the ability to comprehend the possible ramifications of CTE or head trauma (on the more extreme cases) and decide for themselves whether the experience of those sports are worth the possible downsides.

Hockey is in a good spot because the NHL could announce tomorrow that they are becoming a non-contact league, and the game would probably still survive. It wouldn't be as entertaining, but I think the NHL could translate to a non-contact pro game a lot more smoothly than say the NFL could translate to a flag game. With something like the NFL, a play has two possible ways of ending a majority of the time, an incomplete, or a hit. That's all. Hitting is a big part of hockey, but the game could still be remotely entertaining without it and resemble something similar enough to what is presented today.
 

berklon

Registered User
Dec 24, 2008
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Hockey is in a good spot because the NHL could announce tomorrow that they are becoming a non-contact league, and the game would probably still survive.

The NHL won't even remove fighting which is not even an element of gameplay, what makes you think they'd get rid of hitting when it is?
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
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The NHL won't even remove fighting which is not even an element of gameplay, what makes you think they'd get rid of hitting when it is?

The central point I am trying to make is that ice hockey as a non-contact sport would resemble hockey as a contact sport close enough, that it's plausible the league could survive a change over better than say the NFL switching to flag football. I'm not commenting on whether NHL management would be interested or not interested in a change over.
 

Llama19

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Jan 19, 2013
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Concussions will kill hockey. Gary Bettman needs to save it

To quote:

"Ken Dryden certainly thinks hockey can be saved. Game Change, his new book, is subtitled The Life and Death of Steve Montador and the Future of Hockey. Dryden is asking the NHL to turn the page. In fact, it appears we don't need the entire NHL to act because they speak with one voice about concussions – and the voice belongs to Gary Bettman. The NHL commissioner has the team owners in tow because his reign has been so financially successful for them. Dryden is appealing to Bettman to acknowledge that concussions are killing players and could kill our game as well.

I suppose it is possible that Bettman will listen. As a brain surgeon, I am an optimist, always hoping that some really sick people can still recover – and I have seen some miracles. So I, too, hope that Bettman follows the path Dryden has eloquently recommended."

Source: https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/op...ary-bettman-needs-to-save-it/article36610783/
 

Fenway

HF Bookie and Bruins Historian
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Sep 26, 2007
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Concussions will kill hockey. Gary Bettman needs to save it

To quote:

"Ken Dryden certainly thinks hockey can be saved. Game Change, his new book, is subtitled The Life and Death of Steve Montador and the Future of Hockey. Dryden is asking the NHL to turn the page. In fact, it appears we don't need the entire NHL to act because they speak with one voice about concussions – and the voice belongs to Gary Bettman. The NHL commissioner has the team owners in tow because his reign has been so financially successful for them. Dryden is appealing to Bettman to acknowledge that concussions are killing players and could kill our game as well.

I suppose it is possible that Bettman will listen. As a brain surgeon, I am an optimist, always hoping that some really sick people can still recover – and I have seen some miracles. So I, too, hope that Bettman follows the path Dryden has eloquently recommended."

Source: https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/op...ary-bettman-needs-to-save-it/article36610783/

Dryden also spoke with Macleans magazine

http://www.macleans.ca/sports/heres-how-gary-bettman-can-fix-hockey-its-easy/
 

JuniorNelson

Registered User
Jan 21, 2010
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Ken Dryden? Is he related to the old goalie, Dave Dryden? Anyway, interesting point of view. Does he think appealing to Bettman is a thing? Hmm. Bettman is the NHL's lead lawyer. They are being sued by former players. Bettman would have to admit there was a problem and accept implied responsibility if he addressed it. What would that cost?
 
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Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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Ken Dryden? Is he related to the old goalie, Dave Dryden? Anyway, interesting point of view. Does he think appealing to Bettman is a thing? Hmm. Bettman is the NHL's lead lawyer. They are being sued by former players. Bettman would have to admit there was a problem and accept implied responsibility if he addressed it. What would that cost?

.... :laugh: ah, ya.... Dave would be Ken's older brother..... and no, Bettman's not about to be accepting any responsibility or accept any culpability on behalf of the NHL..... the potential costs in doing so would easily exceed a billion in payouts.
 
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