The JVR at center experiment

[Smif]

Agree with Kadri or Colborne at center instead of JVR.
Van Riemsdyk is a winger.

Colborne is miles away from the NHL. Kadri is no less of an experiment at no.#1 C than JVR is at this point.

 

[StuckOutHere]

I have a pretty good feeling that Bozak will be on his way out of town either this year as part of a Luongo trade or at the end of the year as a free agent. So between JVR and Kadri one of them has to take the reigns assuming that Grabovski is permanently parked on the 2nd unit. This is assuming of course that we don't grab any of the elite C's in this draft. The part I don't fully get is if we are in the business of converting wingers into C's, why aren't we trying it with Kulemin? Speed, power, and defensive acumen. I think he has better tools down the middle.

 

[p.l.f.]

yes if bozak is gone then what?

lupul and kessel need a big centre to crash the net
colborne - too slow
kadri - too small
kulemin - too....

 

[theneuf33]

yes if bozak is gone then what?

lupul and kessel need a big centre to crash the net
colborne - too slow
kadri - too small
kulemin - too....

i think then u have to try JVR short term but if it isnt working grabo on top line kadri centres second line with JVR and Koolaid

 

[p.l.f.]

we keep hearing grabo and kessel wouldnt work well together because theyre puck hogs

i think of lupul-kessel much like kariya-selanne
they had rucchin, a big 6'3-215 pd #2 center type
but it worked
you can see why BB wanted j.staal

 

[theneuf33]

if u move bozak might not be any other choice, i think they would be fine together if grabo can win faceoffs and help the line defensively then it would work i think especially if JVR doesnt work and kadri isnt ready

 

[Kyle93]

I'd like to see Bozak again and just work on our 2nd and 3rd lines and getting them to help out with more secondary scoring

 

[-DeMo-]

if Bozak is moved in a trade for say a luongo then Connolly will be starting between Kessel and Lupul

 

[12345*]

if Bozak is moved in a trade for say a luongo then Connolly will be starting between Kessel and Lupul

Lupul - Connolly - Kessel
Kulemin - Grabo - JVR
Frattin - Bozak - Kadri
Brown - McClement - Komorov
Steckel/MacA

Gunnar - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Franson
Liles - Holzer
Komisarek

Reimer
Scrivens? Hopefully not, he should be playing full time in AHL.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Looking at the Leafs, the best options for top C spot are Bozak or Kadri.

 

[BayStBully]

Quite simply, we need a guy that can play in his own end next to Lupul and Phil. As good as that line was last year offensively, it gave up a lot defensively.

Unfortunately the best we have in that regard without giving up too much offensively would be Bozak, because we've seen that Grabo isn't a great fit there.

And I'm a big Kadri fan but him next to Lupul and Kessel would be atrocious defensively. Not to say I wouldn't want to give it a shot though.

 

[ConnorTO]

this is great cause we can have room for the 2 line kulu grab and clark line

if they can perform
get this
if they can perform again
and we have kessel and lup dominate like last season

stanley cup here we come, nuff said

 

[glucker]

i know it got played down soon after randy carlyle mentioned the idea right after the trade
but he did mention he wanted to try him there in practice to see how he looks, as long as we haven't acquired a #1 center from anyone.

He's big, fast and has good hands:

Lupul VanReimsdyk Kessel
McCarthur Grabovsky Kulemin
Frattin Bozak Komarov

Bozak makes a good #3 center

It's worth a try

I like how Komarov draws in before Kadri. Laughs are always good in the morning.

 

[satyr9]

I think with very little camp the chances of JVR actually taking a C spot is very slim. The focus will have to be on getting people ready rather than experimenting or trying to put lines together.

That being said, if the lack of preparation speaks in favour of continuity, then I'm not sure where JVR goes 'cause it might make sense to keep Lupul/Bozak/Kessel and MacArthur/Grabovski/Kulemin together. In which case, I could imagine a third line that's Kadri/JVR/Frattin (keeping AHL linemates together with a new third), where either of Kadri and JVR could be the C depending on performance.

I'd argue against continuity theoretically and move Mac or Kule down a line for JVR on the wing in the top 6, but the point of the post was more that if JVR actually did get burn at C, I'd argue it's more likely to happen on the third line than the first two.

I know that's not a typical Carlyle type bottom 6 line, but when you're trying to put the team together into lines, there's at least 7-8 guys (not counting Connolly and Lombardi either) who are very likely to play reasonable minutes who aren't really bottom 6 types, so something will have to give one way or the other. Really right now they only have McClement and Brown locked for that (Komarov, Steckel, et al. kind of have to beat out guys, although I expect more of those types in under Carlyle). I see Frattin as a reasonable swing type 3rd RW (brings you some scoring without giving up too much size/grit).

In some ways the third line going offensive makes sense as the current roster won't create a true third line, thus defaulting the Mac/Grabo/Kule line as the third line under a Carlyle system. They'll be matched against top lines, they'll get PK minutes. It's more 1/3 offense, 2/4 defense, although calling that second line defensive is definitely stretching the definition. Still, I don't see how the Leafs can build a more traditional third line that would be strong enough to push Grabo's line out of the shutdown role against other team's top lines.

And now I've wandered well off the topic.

 

[JAMmer124]

So, we want to change a scoring winger into a centre, but change our top centre prospect, who happens to be a playmaker, into a winger?

 

[satyr9]

So, we want to change a scoring winger into a centre, but change our top centre prospect, who happens to be a playmaker, into a winger?

Kadri is a creative player, but he's not really a playmaker, at least he isn't one with the Marlies (nor does he play C there most of the time). He's a possession guy and a puckhandler, far more Ovie than Oates (hopefully this doesn't need to be said, but I only mean as player type, not as a direct comparison). I do think the fact that Eakins mostly plays him on the wing is suggestive of where the Leafs see his potential. If they thought he was a C, he'd be getting all his reps there, so when you argue for Kadri at C, you're arguing against Leafs management more than against other posters.

Still, I'm not totally against your point, which is a reason I kind of like the Kadr/JVR together idea for this season. They would share some of the C responsibilities and could cover each other's deficiencies, while hopefully accentuating each other's strengths. If one of them could emerge as a guy capable of full-time C duty at the NHL level, then the Leafs have vastly improved the value of their asset.

 

[zeke]

Kadri's been playing centre most of this season.. ..and looking far better there than he did on the wing at thecstart of the year.

 

[JAMmer124]

Kadri is a creative player, but he's not really a playmaker, at least he isn't one with the Marlies (nor does he play C there most of the time). He's a possession guy and a puckhandler, far more Ovie than Oates (hopefully this doesn't need to be said, but I only mean as player type, not as a direct comparison). I do think the fact that Eakins mostly plays him on the wing is suggestive of where the Leafs see his potential. If they thought he was a C, he'd be getting all his reps there, so when you argue for Kadri at C, you're arguing against Leafs management more than against other posters.

Still, I'm not totally against your point, which is a reason I kind of like the Kadr/JVR together idea for this season. They would share some of the C responsibilities and could cover each other's deficiencies, while hopefully accentuating each other's strengths. If one of them could emerge as a guy capable of full-time C duty at the NHL level, then the Leafs have vastly improved the value of their asset.

Kadri has terrific vision and puck skills. He would be a great centre for Kessel, and in turn Lupul, because he would take the pressure off of them to lug the puck up the ice, and would be able to find them in good scoring areas, as well as finish off plays made by them(something Bozak cannot do).


I just don't see JVR as a centre. In fact, he's everything you want in a winger. Good size and speed, battles in the corners, finishes well.


And Kadri has been 50/50 this year between centre and wing, from what I have seen/read anyway.

 

[satyr9]

Kadri's been playing centre most of this season.. ..and looking far better there than he did on the wing at thecstart of the year.

I admit I only watch about 33% of Marlies games and I've been live 3 times and I'd say more than 80% of what I've watched, he's played on the wing. Maybe that's just weird timing, which is fine, but I'm surprised to hear you say he's played C most of the season.

 

[showtime8]

I think with very little camp the chances of JVR actually taking a C spot is very slim. The focus will have to be on getting people ready rather than experimenting or trying to put lines together.

That being said, if the lack of preparation speaks in favour of continuity, then I'm not sure where JVR goes 'cause it might make sense to keep Lupul/Bozak/Kessel and MacArthur/Grabovski/Kulemin together. In which case, I could imagine a third line that's Kadri/JVR/Frattin (keeping AHL linemates together with a new third), where either of Kadri and JVR could be the C depending on performance.

I'd argue against continuity theoretically and move Mac or Kule down a line for JVR on the wing in the top 6, but the point of the post was more that if JVR actually did get burn at C, I'd argue it's more likely to happen on the third line than the first two.

I know that's not a typical Carlyle type bottom 6 line, but when you're trying to put the team together into lines, there's at least 7-8 guys (not counting Connolly and Lombardi either) who are very likely to play reasonable minutes who aren't really bottom 6 types, so something will have to give one way or the other. Really right now they only have McClement and Brown locked for that (Komarov, Steckel, et al. kind of have to beat out guys, although I expect more of those types in under Carlyle). I see Frattin as a reasonable swing type 3rd RW (brings you some scoring without giving up too much size/grit).

In some ways the third line going offensive makes sense as the current roster won't create a true third line, thus defaulting the Mac/Grabo/Kule line as the third line under a Carlyle system. They'll be matched against top lines, they'll get PK minutes. It's more 1/3 offense, 2/4 defense, although calling that second line defensive is definitely stretching the definition. Still, I don't see how the Leafs can build a more traditional third line that would be strong enough to push Grabo's line out of the shutdown role against other team's top lines.

And now I've wandered well off the topic.

I think you were right in saying that it will be more about just putting players where they should play, instead of experimenting. You start to run into problems when you start mixing and matching.

 

[613Leafer]

Would be nice if it worked out.

I also wouldn't mind seeing Lupul-Kadri-Kessel.

The defensive ability (or lackthereof) for this line would be astounding.

 

[Grant]

Carlyle said JVR will start the season at winger in an interview just now.

 

[p.l.f.]

Carlyle said JVR will start the season at winger in an interview just now.

nothing's etched in stone
if bozak and connolly suck then it's up for grabs
or JVR gets traded in a package for getzlaf