The joys of +/-

[Michel Beauchamp]

Another example tonight: Galchenyuk gets an assist on the even-strenght game-winning goal, but he does not get a +.

Before the goal was scored, he has been replaced on the ice by the goal scorer.

As I wrote, another example as each of you could probably bring up an example.

Click to read more...

 

[KPower]

Empty net plus minus has to be the dumbest stat in sports.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Agree Corsi plus minus is much better

 

[North Cole]

What is the point of this thread? That +/- is useless? most people agree

 

[Saekk]

What is the point of this thread? That +/- is useless? most people agree

Only use for it is comparing players from the same team and even in that case, not that good of an indicator.

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

+/- is the most useless stat ever.

unless you're talking about Bobby Orr.

 

[The Panther]

Plus/minus is largely useless. I wish the NHL would just list Plus/Minus as a total goals-for minus total goals-against, and forget about the 5-on-5 (or 4 scoring against 5) restriction.

The current plus/minus system is slightly interesting in comparing comparable players on comparable-strength teams who play in comparable situations. But otherwise, it's completely useless.

It's most useless in analyzing high-scoring players -- the ones we and all hockey fans mainly care about -- because it doesn't give any credit for goals scored on the power-play, which, for power-play specialists, is their job and the reason they're paid millions.

Now, if you want to compare third-line forward defensive specialists on similar strength teams whose main job to check the opposition's best forwards at five-on-five then Plus/Minus is yer jam!! Otherwise, it's useless.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

What is the point of this thread? That +/- is useless? most people agree

If you don't like a thread, there's really no need to post in it.

PS: The point is not to discuss the merits of +/- .

That has been .

I find joy in funny tidbits...

 

[North Cole]

If you don't like a thread, there's really no need to post in it.

PS: The point is not to discuss the merits of +/- .

That has been .

I find joy in funny tidbits...

I didn't say I don't like the thread. Unless I'm reading it wrong, you haven't asked a question or anything in the thread. You just put down an example of why plus minus is lols. Threads are meant to create discussions, are they not? All you did was point out a funny thing, and then? where does it go from here? you could just post that on the GDT and have the same effect.

 

[DRW204]

But what was the p value?

 

[ESH]

It’s not like something like that happens enough to influence one players +/- very much

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I didn't say I don't like the thread. Unless I'm reading it wrong, you haven't asked a question or anything in the thread. You just put down an example of why plus minus is lols. Threads are meant to create discussions, are they not? All you did was point out a funny thing, and then? where does it go from here? you could just post that on the GDT and have the same effect.

Sorry about what might be read in retrospective as a glib answer.

I now fully understand what you meant.

I will respectfully disagree that threads are always meant to create discussions.

I believe there's a place for what I was trying to do here.

These Boards contain too many "My father is stronger/bigger/smarter than your father" kind of threads.

 

[Advanced stats]

Hypothetically a goalscorer could be on the bench by the time the puck goes in the net..
..he wouldn't get credit for the goal?

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Hypothetically a goalscorer could be on the bench by the time the puck goes in the net..
..he wouldn't get credit for the goal?

If memory serves me right, that has happened once.

A player approaching his bench dumped the puck in, and it took a weird bounce from the back board or a stanchion and went in while the player was on the bench.

PS: Found something on the subject.

How to score an NHL goal from the bench | The Hockey News

 

[North Cole]

Sorry about what might be read in retrospective as a glib answer.

I now fully understand what you meant.

I will respectfully disagree that threads are always meant to create discussions.

I believe there's a place for what I was trying to do here.

These Boards contain too many "My father is stronger/bigger/smarter than your father" kind of threads.

No need to apologize, most people say far worse things on this site
I didn't word my initial point very well, so it's my own fault. I suppose they do, I would just be concerned about the mods closing it. People seem to be discussing things, so I guess I'll just retract my statement, take my ball and go home.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

No need to apologize, most people say far worse things on this site
I didn't word my initial point very well, so it's my own fault. I suppose they do, I would just be concerned about the mods closing it. People seem to be discussing things, so I guess I'll just retract my statement, take my ball and go home.

Go home if you want, but leave the ball, please.

 

[North Cole]

Go home if you want, but leave the ball, please.

Melnyk, is that you?