The Hall of Very Good

[Sens Rule]

Gary Suter? I know he's not loved around here, but he was a very good defenseman during his prime.

He is on the list.

 

[type_v]

No love for Koivu?

edit: maybe his international play more than NHL play

 

[andreydali19]

Daniel Alfredsson
Tony Amonte
Dave Andreychuk
Dave Babych
Ralph Backstrom
Bob Baun
Barry Beck
Brian Bellows
Red Berenson
Ivan Boldirev
Peter Bondra
Bob Bourne
Carl Brewer
Rob Brind'Amour
Neal Broten
Mike Bullard
Herb Cain
Guy Carboneau
Randy Carlye
Bobby Carpenter
Lorne Carr
Wayne Cashman
Guy Chouinard
Dave Christian
Dino Ciccarelli
Wendel Clark
Odie Cleghorn
Real Cloutier
Geoff Courtnall
Russ Courtnall
Jack Crawford
Dave Creighton
John Cullen
Vince Damphousse
Ken Daneyko
Adam Deadmarsh
Pavol Demitra
Eric Desjardins
Kevin Dineen
Gary Dornhoefer
Steve Duchesne
Dick Duff
Ron Dugay
Patrick Elias
Dave Ellett
Ron Ellis
John Ferguson
Ray Ferraro
Frank Finnigan
Theo Fleury
Mike Foligno
Adam Foote
Robbie Ftorek
Dave Gagner
Johny Gagnon
Gerard Gallant
Danny Gare
Bob Goldham
Bill Goldsworthy
Sergei Gonchar
Butch Goring
Phil Goyette
Dirk Graham
Adam Graves
Ted Green
Ron Greschner
Bill Guerin
Vic Hadfield
Terry Harper
Billy Harris (1955-1969)
Ted Harris
Craig Hartsburg
Derian Hatcher
Kevin Hatcher
Andres Hedberg
Paul Henderson
Camille Henry
Bill Hicke
Ken Hodge
Flash Hollett
Phil Housley
Dennis Hull
Dale Hunter
Al Iafrate
Craig Janney
Doug Jarvis
Valeri Kamensky
Alexei Kasatonov
Rick Kehoe
Tim Kerr
Vladimir Konstantinov
Alexei Kovalev
Steve Larmer
Pierre Larouche
Reed Larson
Reggie Leach
John LeClair
Claude Lemieux
Trevor Linden
Ken Linesman
Ed Litzenberger
Hakan Loob
Kevin Lowe
Tom Lysiak
John MacLean
Paul MacLean
Rick MacLeish
Pete Mahovlich
Pit Martin
Rick Martin
Dennis Maruk
Brad McCrimmon
John McKenzie
Peter McNab
Scott Mellanby
Rick Middleton
Alexander Mogilny
Ken Mosdell
Kirk Muller
Marcus Naslund
Mats Naslund
Petr Nedved
Eric Nesterenko
Bernie Nicholls
Bob Nevin
Scott Niedermeyer
Joe Nieuwendyk
Ulf Nilson
Kent Nilsson
Owen Nolan
Teppo Numminen
Bob Nystrom
John Ogrodnick
Murray Oliver
Terry O'Reilly
Sandis Ozolinsh
Wilf Paiment
Ziggy Palffy
Jim Pappin
J.P. Parise
James Patrick
Mike Peca
Barry Pederson
Barclay Plager
Dean Prentice
Bob Probert
Jean Pronovost
Brian Propp
Claude Provost
Rob Ramage
Craig Ramsay
Mike Ramsey
Mickey Redmond
Paul Reinhart
Stephane Richer
Mike Ridley
Rene Robert
Gary Roberts
Jeremy Roenick
Cliff Ronning
Bobby Rousseau
Geoff Sanderson
Tomas Sandstrom
Al Secord
Eddie Shack
Ray Sheppard
Charlie Simmer
Craig Simpson
Bobby Smith
Stan Smyl
Pat Stapleton
Anton Statsny
Thomas Steen
Kevin Stevens
Gaye Stewart
Patrick Sundstrom
Gary Suter
Brent Sutter
Brian Sutter
Petr Svoboda
Jean-Guy Talbot
Tony Tanti
Marc Tardif
Dave Taylor
Steve Thomas
Jimmy Thomson
Esa Tikkanen
Keith Tkachuk
Rick Tocchet
John Tonelli
J. C. Tremblay
Pierre Turgeon
Ian Turnbull
Garry Unger
Carol Vadnais
Rick Vaive
Moose Vasko
Pat Verbeek
Ryan Walter
Glen Wesley
Ed Westfall
Kenny Wharram
Bill White
Tiger Wiliams
Doug Wilson
Tim Young

Players who I think should or will make the Hall of Fame

Glenn Anderson
Rob Blake
Pavel Bure
Chris Chelios
Sergei Fedorov
Peter Forsberg
Ron Francis
Doug Gilmour
Mark Howe
Brett Hull
Paul Kariya
Igor Larionov
Brian Leetch
Nicklas Lidstrom
Eric Lindros
Al MacInnis
Sergei Makarov
Mike Modano
Adam Oates
Chris Pronger
Mark Recchi
Luc Robitaille
Joe Sakic
Teemu Selanne
Brendan Shanahan
Scott Stevens
Mats Sundin
Steve Yzerman

Even though him not getting into the HOF within at least the next TWO years (forget three) would be an act of combined idiocy, ignorance, and limitation bias; I surely hope that it's only by unintended accident that Messier didnt get a nod on the latter list; no offense, but he and Stevie Y are pretty much most deserving of getting waived from the waiting period.

 

[PJ Wiggum]

No Jagr

 

[El_Scoobo]

I think your list is pretty good. I'm sure you omitted guys like the Moose, Jagr and Yzerman because they are obvious hall of famers.

Niedermayer will get in for sure. He's won every championship that you can win and is head and shoulders above pretty much anyone on your "very good" list.

p.s.---Its too bad that Glenn Anderson won't get in to the hall. Last year was his last chance, imo. The next few years are booked solid (especially next year, that's just a ridiculous group of talent coming up for induction).

 

[God Bless Canada]

No Jagr

I believe Messier and Jagr were simply oversights. I'd hope anyone with an IQ above Messier's number would be able to figure it out. I believe they were both brought to cup2006's attention earlier in the thread, and he even said as much. cup2006sensrule is easily one of the top five posters to join HFBoards over the past year, the list he compiled is one of the best I've seen in two years, and I'm sure he views Mess and Jagr as HHOF-worthy. Even the biggest Messier and Jagr detractors will rate both as sure-fire first ballot HHOFers. (And I would know. I don't like either).

BTW, andreydali19, welcome to HF Boards. I've seen your name in this part of the forum on a couple of occasions. I'm sure you'll find that this is, bar none, the best part of this site, with the best analysis and debate, and as good of a history forum as you'll find anywhere. Guys like ClassicHockey, Hockey Outsider, reckoning, BM67, Ogopogo, Leaf Lander, pnep, murray, mcphee and many others really know their stuff.

 

[andreydali19]

Oh, thank you very much for the welcome, GBC. Sorry if I sounded a tad bit trollish earlier. Yeah a lot of the posts in this history section sound rather interesting. If you're interested, feel free to check out the "Your Favorite Stanley Cup Playoffs moments" and post your choices. Really I should change the title to "Choices for greatest Stanley Cup playoffs moments" in order to cover a wider ground of playoff history. The choices I read so far seem to be ones only from 88-04. I made the same post on this history board and on the Stanley Cup Finals board in order to cover wider ground.

 

[Darz]

Imo, the Hockey Hall of Fame is ALREADY the Hall of Very Good. Too many players that, imo, don't deserve to be there. I wish they would rename the existing hall the Hall of Very Good and open up a new hall to hail only the best of the best. Bernie Federko??? Clarke Gilles??? Hall of Famers???? NO. Hall of Very Gooders(??) Sure.

Most of the player listed in the first post of this thread, agian, imo, belong in the second, and about half of those names belong in a third hall...the Hall of Players who have had Decent Careers.

....and while we are at it, maybe a fourth hall for all players who have played over 200 NHL games.

 

[Sens Rule]

I believe Messier and Jagr were simply oversights. I'd hope anyone with an IQ above Messier's number would be able to figure it out. I believe they were both brought to cup2006's attention earlier in the thread, and he even said as much. cup2006sensrule is easily one of the top five posters to join HFBoards over the past year, the list he compiled is one of the best I've seen in two years, and I'm sure he views Mess and Jagr as HHOF-worthy. Even the biggest Messier and Jagr detractors will rate both as sure-fire first ballot HHOFers. (And I would know. I don't like either).

BTW, andreydali19, welcome to HF Boards. I've seen your name in this part of the forum on a couple of occasions. I'm sure you'll find that this is, bar none, the best part of this site, with the best analysis and debate, and as good of a history forum as you'll find anywhere. Guys like ClassicHockey, Hockey Outsider, reckoning, BM67, Ogopogo, Leaf Lander, pnep, murray, mcphee and many others really know their stuff.

Thanks for the praise.

I will work on this list more during the offseason and add goalies, clearly Jagr and Messier were oversights and are obvious. I welcome all input, Basically I went through the Total NHL book and with the stats, my memories of players actual play and reading accounts of players through my life I made the list over several hours. There are surely ommissions and players that shouldn't be there. There are also actual Hall of Famers that should probably be in the 'Hall of Very Good'. Like Pulford, Gilles, Leo Boiven and several others but I have not even begun to think of that but it could be gone through as well. And while the 1917-current NHL eras are well covered by my list my knowledge of players pre 1960 is limited though I learned of many great stars that are not in the actual Hall from the 20's to 40's in compiling this list.

It is hard to judge all the players, for instance Tim Young on the North Stars has good stats, I remember him from hockey cards more than anything and he was on some cards I had that wre 'inserts' of star players. But really I never remember his play, if he was a tenaticous player like Koivu he should be on the list. If he was a one dimensional player like Pierre Turgeon he doesn't belong. I don't really know and when I put him in I was iffy about it. Iffy about Russ and Geoff Courtnall too. I remember Russ's amazing speed and I liked him alot when he played but his stats don't jump out but he played a long career. Should he be on the list? Am I biased towards players I saw play? You tell me. Iffy on Charlie Huddy, almost put him on the list but didn't do it, also almost added more Islander role players from their dynasty era but didn't. Should I? You tell me.

For Scott Niedermeyer I was thinking Hall of Fame but I thought if he retired right now should he make it? Maybe, maybe not. With a couple more seasons he is in the Hall of Fame. But remember D-Men like Randy Carlye, Doug Wilson, J.C. Tremblay (should be though), Mark Howe, (should be too) aren't in the Hall so Niedermeyer right now may not merit the Hall yet. But I put Pronger in mostly because of the Hart trophy I think he gets in right now if he retires.

 

[Sens Rule]

Most of the player listed in the first post of this thread, agian, imo, belong in the second, and about half of those names belong in a third hall...the Hall of Players who have had Decent Careers.

....and while we are at it, maybe a fourth hall for all players who have played over 200 NHL games.

Yeah i thought of that. Perhaps the Hall of Very good has too many players in it. You go from guys that are really close to making the Hall of fame to guys that had long careers, to guys that had a tremendous peak for 4 or 5 seasons but didn't have long careers or couldn't maintain the peak. Because of the difficulty in me personally judging players from before 1980, and especially before 1960 and the fact that there are many players that should be in a Hall of Very Good that maybe I would be unaware of if I made a shorter list I made it quite liberal to get into, kind of modelling the current Hall of Fame in perhaps or even probably allowing too amny people in. I intentionally put in guys with long solid careers that were good but never spectacular which is why Aaron Broten is on the list as a kind of mini Ron Francis, for sure Neal Broten should be on a list like this should Aaron? And I added soon great enforcers like Probert, Williams and Ferguson. And included some defensive D-Men like Daneyko that played a really long time on great teams. Should these players be in? Should some be in a 'Hall of Good' or just a list of decent players?

My thoughts were that a guy like Neely is in the Hall and deserves it so a player with 5 or 6 really good seasons and a short career should be on this kind of list.

What do you guys think is this list far too long?