The Hall of Very Good

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Sens Rule, Jun 3, 2006.

  1. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Posted this in a thread in NHL talk. But it is more appropriate here.

    These are the players I think that are good enough to be in a Hall of Very Good players. Players that were great but fall below the Hall of Fame. Some players in the Hall of Fame would better fit in this category like for instance Bob Pulford, Leo Boiven and Clark Gilles.

    It is a comprensive list from 1917 to date and includes active players later in their careers as well. I didn't do goalies yet. They are in alphabetical order. Did I miss anyone or do I have players you think don't belong? The guys I have picked that I think will go in the Hall of Fame are at the end.


    Daniel Alfredsson
    Tony Amonte
    Dave Andreychuk
    Dave Babych
    Ralph Backstrom
    Bob Baun
    Barry Beck
    Brian Bellows
    Red Berenson
    Ivan Boldirev
    Peter Bondra
    Bob Bourne
    Carl Brewer
    Rob Brind'Amour
    Neal Broten
    Mike Bullard
    Herb Cain
    Guy Carboneau
    Randy Carlye
    Bobby Carpenter
    Lorne Carr
    Wayne Cashman
    Guy Chouinard
    Dave Christian
    Dino Ciccarelli
    Wendel Clark
    Odie Cleghorn
    Real Cloutier
    Geoff Courtnall
    Russ Courtnall
    Jack Crawford
    Dave Creighton
    John Cullen
    Vince Damphousse
    Ken Daneyko
    Adam Deadmarsh
    Pavol Demitra
    Eric Desjardins
    Kevin Dineen
    Gary Dornhoefer
    Steve Duchesne
    Dick Duff
    Ron Dugay
    Patrick Elias
    Dave Ellett
    Ron Ellis
    John Ferguson
    Ray Ferraro
    Frank Finnigan
    Theo Fleury
    Mike Foligno
    Adam Foote
    Robbie Ftorek
    Dave Gagner
    Johny Gagnon
    Gerard Gallant
    Danny Gare
    Bob Goldham
    Bill Goldsworthy
    Sergei Gonchar
    Butch Goring
    Phil Goyette
    Dirk Graham
    Adam Graves
    Ted Green
    Ron Greschner
    Bill Guerin
    Vic Hadfield
    Terry Harper
    Billy Harris (1955-1969)
    Ted Harris
    Craig Hartsburg
    Derian Hatcher
    Kevin Hatcher
    Andres Hedberg
    Paul Henderson
    Camille Henry
    Bill Hicke
    Ken Hodge
    Flash Hollett
    Phil Housley
    Dennis Hull
    Dale Hunter
    Al Iafrate
    Craig Janney
    Doug Jarvis
    Valeri Kamensky
    Alexei Kasatonov
    Rick Kehoe
    Tim Kerr
    Vladimir Konstantinov
    Alexei Kovalev
    Steve Larmer
    Pierre Larouche
    Reed Larson
    Reggie Leach
    John LeClair
    Claude Lemieux
    Trevor Linden
    Ken Linesman
    Ed Litzenberger
    Hakan Loob
    Kevin Lowe
    Tom Lysiak
    John MacLean
    Paul MacLean
    Rick MacLeish
    Pete Mahovlich
    Pit Martin
    Rick Martin
    Dennis Maruk
    Brad McCrimmon
    John McKenzie
    Peter McNab
    Scott Mellanby
    Rick Middleton
    Alexander Mogilny
    Ken Mosdell
    Kirk Muller
    Marcus Naslund
    Mats Naslund
    Petr Nedved
    Eric Nesterenko
    Bernie Nicholls
    Bob Nevin
    Scott Niedermeyer
    Joe Nieuwendyk
    Ulf Nilson
    Kent Nilsson
    Owen Nolan
    Teppo Numminen
    Bob Nystrom
    John Ogrodnick
    Murray Oliver
    Terry O'Reilly
    Sandis Ozolinsh
    Wilf Paiment
    Ziggy Palffy
    Jim Pappin
    J.P. Parise
    James Patrick
    Mike Peca
    Barry Pederson
    Barclay Plager
    Dean Prentice
    Bob Probert
    Jean Pronovost
    Brian Propp
    Claude Provost
    Rob Ramage
    Craig Ramsay
    Mike Ramsey
    Mickey Redmond
    Paul Reinhart
    Stephane Richer
    Mike Ridley
    Rene Robert
    Gary Roberts
    Jeremy Roenick
    Cliff Ronning
    Bobby Rousseau
    Geoff Sanderson
    Tomas Sandstrom
    Al Secord
    Eddie Shack
    Ray Sheppard
    Charlie Simmer
    Craig Simpson
    Bobby Smith
    Stan Smyl
    Pat Stapleton
    Anton Statsny
    Thomas Steen
    Kevin Stevens
    Gaye Stewart
    Patrick Sundstrom
    Gary Suter
    Brent Sutter
    Brian Sutter
    Petr Svoboda
    Jean-Guy Talbot
    Tony Tanti
    Marc Tardif
    Dave Taylor
    Steve Thomas
    Jimmy Thomson
    Esa Tikkanen
    Keith Tkachuk
    Rick Tocchet
    John Tonelli
    J. C. Tremblay
    Pierre Turgeon
    Ian Turnbull
    Garry Unger
    Carol Vadnais
    Rick Vaive
    Moose Vasko
    Pat Verbeek
    Ryan Walter
    Glen Wesley
    Ed Westfall
    Kenny Wharram
    Bill White
    Tiger Wiliams
    Doug Wilson
    Tim Young

    Players who I think should or will make the Hall of Fame

    Glenn Anderson
    Rob Blake
    Pavel Bure
    Chris Chelios
    Sergei Fedorov
    Peter Forsberg
    Ron Francis
    Doug Gilmour
    Mark Howe
    Brett Hull
    Paul Kariya
    Igor Larionov
    Brian Leetch
    Nicklas Lidstrom
    Eric Lindros
    Al MacInnis
    Sergei Makarov
    Mike Modano
    Adam Oates
    Chris Pronger
    Mark Recchi
    Luc Robitaille
    Joe Sakic
    Teemu Selanne
    Brendan Shanahan
    Scott Stevens
    Mats Sundin
    Steve Yzerman
     
  2. Realm

    Realm Registered User

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    WOW, thats quite alot of work you did. Nice job. I cant imagine all those bottom guys make it though, isnt it a max of 3 per year?
     
  3. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    Max is four per year. Some of those guys will need several attempts to be inducted.

    Sens, an excellent compilation. I'm guessing you put that together over the course of several hours, as the original thread in the NHL forum only appeared this morning. You went above and beyond the call of duty, putting that list together on relatively short notice, and during the first weekend of June at that.
     
  4. Hockey Outsider

    Hockey Outsider Registered User

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    Excellent job! I agree with most of the people you listed. A few random observations:

    - If Mike Peca is on the list (as he deserves to be), you should have to include Jere Lehtinen as well. Peca's more physical, but Lehtinen is even better defensively and has more Selkes.
    - I'd probably include Pelle Lindbergh. He was a dominant goalie during his all-too-brief time in the NHL. I guess that makes him more eligible for a "Hall of the Great for a Short Period of Time", though.
    - I'd probably include Ken Morrow. He was an outstanding defensive defenseman and a very good playoff performer. He's comparable to Bill White and Brad McCrimmon, and I agree they both belong on the list.
     
  5. Le Tricolore

    Le Tricolore Boo! BOOOOO!

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    Kariya? Lindros? okay then...
     
  6. benji

    benji Took too much, man.

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    Very nice list, I agree with almost everything. The ones you list as "Very Good" that I think should/could go in the most are Carbonneau, Housley, Roenick and Niedermayer. It could go either way for many of the players listed.
     
  7. KingsFanInRI

    KingsFanInRI Waiting 4 next year

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    I know you haven't gotten to goalies yet, but the Hall of Fame is a joke without Rogie Vachon
     
  8. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    I would include Lehtinen. Though my 'active' players on the list are not complete by any means. I missed Lehtinen because he hasn't played that long, though some active players way have played less seasons than him.

    I didn't do goalies at all yet. All the players are forwards or D-Men.
     
  9. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Niedermeyer will probably eventually make the Hall of Fame. He already would be in the Hall of Very Good if he retired today.
     
  10. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy Registered User

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    Carbonneau will probably be enshrined in the HHoF at some point not too far down the road.

    Jean-Claude Tremblay should have been admitted years ago. He's the best D-man not in the Hall, an outfit that does seem to neglect blueliners.
     
  11. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    I agree about J.C. but he likely never will get in the Hall of Fame. He has little chance at this point. That is my he is in my Hall of Very Good.
     
  12. ScaredStreit

    ScaredStreit Registered User

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    I agree, great list. Only difference is I would have put Niedermeyer as hall of fame. But very good list, I think Adam Oates is the most underrated player and deserves the hall of fame, glad to see someone else say that.
     
  13. Bluesfan1981

    Bluesfan1981 Registered User

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    I agree with that except for Carbonneau. And I think Tremblay and Provost should be in. I wouldn't mind seeing Bernie Nicholls making it; 1209 points in 1127 games.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2006
  14. Bluesfan1981

    Bluesfan1981 Registered User

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    I would also vote for Andreychuk, Ciccarelli, Nieuwendyk, and maybe a few others for the Hall of Fame.
     
  15. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    I might vote for those guys to for the Hall of Fame. As I went through the making of this list though I saw that there were several players on my list of the Very good that are as good as these guys. I wouldn't mind if they made the Hall of Fame but maybe they shouldn't be there and should be in a lower Hall of Fame.

    Like Ciccarelli vs Tim Kerr. From the same era. Who is better?
    Nieuwendyk vs. Roenick and Fleury. Who is better? Should all 3 be in the Hall of fame? Or none of the 3?

    Maybe Andreychuk and Ciccarelli just have such huge numbers career wise they need to get in regardless of their limited peaks or not as high peaks?

    Liker I pick Recchi for the Hall of Fame but not these three. Why? Personal preferance. The belief he was at an elite level for a longer time.

    But Gartner is in. He is very consistent and has huge lifetime numbers but was he really better than Ciccarelli? Andreychuk?

    Hard decisions.......
     
  16. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    I am adding Weight to my list of the Very Good.
     
  17. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

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    Those lists were pretty impressive. Nice work.

    A few old-timers you might want to consider adding to the very good list:

    Paul Thompson (more points than anyone else from `34-`38)
    Fleming Mackell (good regular season numbers, excellent playoff numbers)
    Marty Pavelich (top defensive forward of the 50s)

    I`d also remove Chounaird and Young from the list. JMO.
     
  18. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    Nieuwendyk will be in the HHOF. One of six players to win a Cup with six different teams. Won the Conn Smythe in 1999. I know a lot of people will advocate for Claude Lemieux, who won one more Cup than Nieuwendyk, but Nieuwendyk was a much better player in the regular season, and is a much better human being.

    Niedermayer falls under the "no, not yet" class. He turns 33 this year, but has done exceptionally well over the last three seasons - a Stanley Cup and a tie for the playoff scoring lead in 2003, the Norris Trophy in 2004, and a Norris nomination and probable first team all-star selection this year. One more year at his current level, or two more years at a slightly lower level (top five or six defenceman in the league instead of top two) and Niedermayer will be a lock. If international accomplishments meant anything to HHOF voters, Niedermayer would be a lock.

    If Edmonton wins the Cup this year, Pronger probably cements his place as an HHOF gimmie. Even if they don't, he still has three to four years of elite play ahead of him, and should manage to play his way onto everyone's lists.

    If Carolina wins the Cup this year, Mark Recchi probably will get in, even though I view him as just a shade below HHOF status.

    justsomeguy, I don't think Carbonneau will get in. Call it a hunch for some reason. Carbo is the best defensive forward to enter the league since Bob Gainey, but I don't see Carbo making it. But those who don't think he belongs should watch his defensive dominance in the 1993 playoffs. As for JC Tremblay, you and I both know the reason he's not in the HHOF. It's the same reason that Mark Howe (who I consider the best defenceman not in the HHOF) hasn't been enshrined: they are borderline HHOF players who chose to play in the WHA instead of the NHL.
     
  19. Bluesfan1981

    Bluesfan1981 Registered User

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    Kerr might have been better in his prime, but Ciccarelli piled up more than 600 goals so I'm sure he'll get in eventually. Andreychuk will certainly get in, maybe even Pat Verbeek who has more than 500 goals will get in one day.
     
  20. Leaf Lander

    Leaf Lander Registered User Sponsor

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    Former leafs Lorne Carr 1930's 1940's, sid smith (1950's) forward an defensive forward bob davidson (1940's) deserves to be in the hall of fame. They absolutley deserve to be in the hall of very good.
     
  21. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

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    Pretty good List. IMO even with the low standards of the HOF selection committee only about half your recommendations will get into the HOF. Your Very good list certainly covers a wide range of players. Well done.
     
  22. SGY19

    SGY19 Registered User

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    You forgot one big name in your list of players that will make the HOF.

    Mark Messier
     
  23. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Your right, though he is clearly a Hall of Famer.
     
  24. Bluesfan1981

    Bluesfan1981 Registered User

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    Cecil Dillon
    Gus Mortson
    Sid Smith
     
  25. Blades of Glory

    Blades of Glory Troll Captain

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    Gary Suter? I know he's not loved around here, but he was a very good defenseman during his prime.
     

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