The Great Dale Weise Debate (& other ex-Hawks) volume 3

[BK]

Panarin looking good

Had assist on goal in 1st as Blue Jackets lead 2-0 after 1st

Panarin is a really good offensive hockey player. You don't just get a player like Saad for nothing.

I wish AP nothing but the best.

I will say that Saad is a much better fit for this team.

Schmaltz and Hartman both can play east west but they are much more active from a rotation standpoint in the offensive zone so it brings that part of Kane's game out more instead of just looking for the back door.

 

[LDF]

Panarin is a really good offensive hockey player. You don't just get a player like Saad for nothing.

I wish AP nothing but the best.

I will say that Saad is a much better fit for this team.

Schmaltz and Hartman both can play east west but they are much more active from a rotation standpoint in the offensive zone so it brings that part of Kane's game out more instead of just looking for the back door.

it make loosing AP in a better situation with the like of Schm stepping in to further develop to the player he will become.

i will agree the offensive production lost is and will be missed. however you posted the best thought process of the gains the team got in the trade.

 

[Blackhawks]

Everyone keeps missing the point that the Hawks could have had both of Saad and Panarin. When Saad was due for a raise and he asked for 6M I was like sure give it to him it is worth it and 99% of the people on this board didn't agree and ridiculed me, well now I was right yet again because almost everyone agrees he is worth it. Also I was stating we don't really need a second line center we will be fine without and that was a non popular opinion as well, second line center comes in and this team takes a big downgrade on offense with losing Saad and the team loses two first round years in a row. Panarin could have still been on this team right now along side Saad for 1.5M more. Also if Stan was smart he would have kept Danault or TT and they could have taken that 2nd/3rd line center position from AA. Imagine this team with Panarin on it with Danault/TT with Saad to boot. Also Hammer for Murphy was a stupid move and that will be proven soon enough. Imagine this team with that firepower potential and that D, no team would stop the Hawks this year and quite frankly no one would have stopped the Hawks in 2016. But hey I don't know my hockey, again someone go dig up the teams I constructed after 2015 to start the 2016 season to see what I mean...

 

[ClydeLee]

Also wouldn't have Panik technically and that RW Hossa replacement besides Toews would of been the mystery.

That team couldn't have the firepower and D because the cost of it all isn't washed simply but no Anisimov.

 

[LDF]

Everyone keeps missing the point that the Hawks could have had both of Saad and Panarin. When Saad was due for a raise and he asked for 6M I was like sure give it to him it is worth it and 99% of the people on this board didn't agree and ridiculed me, well now I was right yet again because almost everyone agrees he is worth it. Also I was stating we don't really need a second line center we will be fine without and that was a non popular opinion as well, second line center comes in and this team takes a big downgrade on offense with losing Saad and the team loses two first round years in a row. Panarin could have still been on this team right now along side Saad for 1.5M more. Also if Stan was smart he would have kept Danault or TT and they could have taken that 2nd/3rd line center position from AA. Imagine this team with Panarin on it with Danault/TT with Saad to boot. Also Hammer for Murphy was a stupid move and that will be proven soon enough. Imagine this team with that firepower potential and that D, no team would stop the Hawks this year and quite frankly no one would have stopped the Hawks in 2016. But hey I don't know my hockey, again someone go dig up the teams I constructed after 2015 to start the 2016 season to see what I mean...

i hated that trade just as much as any. this and my opinions lead me to getting banned.

but revisiting history, the players that we also got, may have helped in making this team stronger . as much as i hate posting this, but it is the truth. all i can say is, it is a domino effect of things that we can not see at this moment or never will. there were other players involved.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Everyone keeps missing the point that the Hawks could have had both of Saad and Panarin. When Saad was due for a raise and he asked for 6M I was like sure give it to him it is worth it and 99% of the people on this board didn't agree and ridiculed me, well now I was right yet again because almost everyone agrees he is worth it. Also I was stating we don't really need a second line center we will be fine without and that was a non popular opinion as well, second line center comes in and this team takes a big downgrade on offense with losing Saad and the team loses two first round years in a row. Panarin could have still been on this team right now along side Saad for 1.5M more. Also if Stan was smart he would have kept Danault or TT and they could have taken that 2nd/3rd line center position from AA. Imagine this team with Panarin on it with Danault/TT with Saad to boot. Also Hammer for Murphy was a stupid move and that will be proven soon enough. Imagine this team with that firepower potential and that D, no team would stop the Hawks this year and quite frankly no one would have stopped the Hawks in 2016. But hey I don't know my hockey, again someone go dig up the teams I constructed after 2015 to start the 2016 season to see what I mean...

The burden of proof isn't on anyone else. Go dig em up.

 

[ColdSteel2]

I don't recall people thinking Saad wasn't worth the money, it was that he would allow himself to get traded over money. He's got to look out for himself though, and now look, he got his cake and is eating it too. It made him a better player too. Everything happens for a reason, it worked out for the best.

 

[BobbyJet]

I loved the way Panarin played as a rookie, but didn't care much for his game as a sophomore. And he was essentially a non-factor in the post season. The trade for Saad will help both teams but I'm convinced that Saad will help Hawks far more than Panarin will help his new team. Time will tell.

BTW .... Hawks could not afford to keep Panarin when his contract came due. Forgetting the fact that Saad should have been here all along, it was an excellent trade by Stan.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Panarin looks good so far, he's a totally different player when he plays like that, both teams win this trade. It's not about points. The Kane thing just made him too comfortable. Nashville was ready for it.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Everyone keeps missing the point that the Hawks could have had both of Saad and Panarin. When Saad was due for a raise and he asked for 6M I was like sure give it to him it is worth it and 99% of the people on this board didn't agree and ridiculed me, well now I was right yet again because almost everyone agrees he is worth it. Also I was stating we don't really need a second line center we will be fine without and that was a non popular opinion as well, second line center comes in and this team takes a big downgrade on offense with losing Saad and the team loses two first round years in a row. Panarin could have still been on this team right now along side Saad for 1.5M more. Also if Stan was smart he would have kept Danault or TT and they could have taken that 2nd/3rd line center position from AA. Imagine this team with Panarin on it with Danault/TT with Saad to boot. Also Hammer for Murphy was a stupid move and that will be proven soon enough. Imagine this team with that firepower potential and that D, no team would stop the Hawks this year and quite frankly no one would have stopped the Hawks in 2016. But hey I don't know my hockey, again someone go dig up the teams I constructed after 2015 to start the 2016 season to see what I mean...

Cool story bro.

i hated that trade just as much as any. this and my opinions lead me to getting banned.

Mods can be mean sometimes, but the only reason you would get banned for your opinions is if you were being an aggressive asshole about it. They don't just ban you if you don't fall in line with the opinion of others. And they're usually pretty good at explaining WHY you got banned. #Don'tBlameItOnTheMods

 

[BK]

I loved the way Panarin played as a rookie, but didn't care much for his game as a sophomore. And he was essentially a non-factor in the post season. The trade for Saad will help both teams but I'm convinced that Saad will help Hawks far more than Panarin will help his new team. Time will tell.

BTW .... Hawks could not afford to keep Panarin when his contract came due. Forgetting the fact that Saad should have been here all along, it was an excellent trade by Stan.

The Hawks would have been gutted far worse if they would have kept Saad and then AP hits his bonuses. Funny how people forget that. Also if the Hawks don't trade Saad they are weak as shit down the middle and teams don't win cups without good centers. The Hawks are now poised to make another set of runs at the cup because of the original trade, this is the deepest set of forwards the Hawks have had since 2010 (and they may turn out better than that). We have 3 top 6 lines and a potential 4th line that can really be a good 3rd line scoring group. This will all be dependent on how Q/Ulf develop our D group. Our Bottom 4 D all have 3-4 potential with Forsling having offensive #2 potential.

Blackhawks - Your posts in the thread just talk about how Saad is a superstar and a 70 point player in Columbus. You do mention that we should have trade Seabrook instead, which basically everyone here agrees with and has been saying far before you posted about it. Then your usual trash along with you proving you don't understand math and player values (JD explained this concept to you, THANKS JD!). Even later than that you went on to claim this is the worst trade in Hawks history "watch and learn" when in reality the original Saad trade, the Panarin signing, and then Later bringing Saad back might be some of the smartest moves that Stan has made. We have netted Saad, AA, AF, and Panik for Panarin and Paliotta.

Once BWC cooled down he had a pretty well thought out post on the subject.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Panarin is the better player of the two. Saad's the better long term cost controlled option for this Hawks team.

 

[BK]

Panarin is the better player of the two. Saad's the better long term cost controlled option for this Hawks team.

Offensively for sure but total value comes down to how much you value defensive ability.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Saad makes the Hawks a better team. He's strong 5v5. He can play a 200ft game, play PP and PK. He fills a bigger need than having a 2nd Kane. They've been looking to replace Saad since making the trade. And obviously the Hawks have Schmaltz and DeBrincat who can play a Panarin type game with Kane, so you wouldn't lose that much of the offensive production, but gain a lot in the other areas of weakness. In summary, I just think Saad makes the Hawks a better team on the ice. Maybe not on paper because people just see 70+ pts > 60+ pts. Fortunately, that's not what matters.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Panarin is more skilled, not better. It's possible he is better for Columbus than Saad, sure.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I think he's considerably more skilled than Saad. Both signed to the same contract, I'm taking Panarin.

 

[ColdSteel2]

I think he's considerably more skilled than Saad. Both signed to the same contract, I'm taking Panarin.

So you'd rather have Panarin on the team with Saad's contract?

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Yes, but I'd move him off Kane's wing and I don't see Q doing that. Panarin was relegated to Kane's trigger man too often. Panarin is far more dynamic an offensive weapon than that.

 

[CallMeShaft]

I somewhat agree with DHF. Panarin could've been of greater use to us if he wasn't paired with Kane. That 2nd line got all the easy offensive zone minutes, so they didn't have to utilize Panarin's biggest strength, his skating 1 on 1. That's especially true when Kane is just as good, if not better, at skating the puck up ice.

If we had moved a guy like Kane to the top line (and kept Panarin at 2LW), we would've had a much easier time skating the puck through neutral ice and being able to set up plays in the offensive zone. Q didn't want to separate the two, so Bowman swapped Bread with a guy who's known most for his north/south style of play.

Having said that, Saad looks like a guy on a mission this year. Scored a hatty in his first regular season game and scored another in his first preseason game. Panarin's numbers will take a slight dip without Kane, so the two players will be neck and neck in points this year (I have Panarin winning that comparison, but more of those points will come from the PP and with easier minutes).

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I thought Panarin should have been given his own line as well for lineup balance and development reasons. But every time they split Kane and Panarin one wouldn't produce as much, and that was Panarin.

 

[CallMeShaft]

I thought Panarin should have been given his own line as well for lineup balance and development reasons. But every time they split Kane and Panarin one wouldn't produce as much, and that was Panarin.

I don't think that's true. Both were separated in the series against the Blues and Bread was a PPG during that series.

 

[LDF]

Cool story bro.



Mods can be mean sometimes, but the only reason you would get banned for your opinions is if you were being an aggressive ******* about it. They don't just ban you if you don't fall in line with the opinion of others. And they're usually pretty good at explaining WHY you got banned. #Don'tBlameItOnTheMods

ah not on this case. but that is ok, b/c i am here on this forum . this season is going to make posting a lot better.

 

[BK]

ah not on this case. but that is ok, b/c i am here on this forum . this season is going to make posting a lot better.

I am will to bet that 99.999 % of bans are due to the poster and not the mod.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Discussing moderator actions openly is a no go.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Discussing moderator actions openly is a no go.

Well, now we know who delivered the ban.




And....now I'm done with this conversation.