THE Fire Torts Thread

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Maylo

It never happened.
May 20, 2017
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Dude spreads so much BS out of his mouth, "I don't believe in x's and o's, i don't coach offence, i dont believe in line chemistry, i don't have a plan for a game, i don't match lines, i don't talk about PP." Player scored the lone 2 goals to get him a win and he thanks him with "Meh, need to check more." Say thank you to Ohio weak media, genius.
 

Nordique

Add smoked meat, and we have a deal.
Aug 11, 2005
9,138
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Torts' handling of both Bjork and Milano is a legit discussion point. We don't have an extra $14 million in our budget to go out and sign two super wings for $7 million a piece. Much of our growth needs to come from within. And, unfortunately neither Bjork nor Sonny are getting real chances to grow. I could be wrong, but I see Sonny as a legit high skill type of player. Yet Torts seem to resent his high end skills and wants him to "grind". That seems to me to be what he has done to Bjork, changing him from a guy with a super skill wrister into a young, grinding Matt Calvert. And I am not so sure about how well Andy has developed. Torts' handling of young guys with offensive upside really has to be evaluated more critically than has been done so far.

Torts is fine with the young guys. I don't think he's held Luc, Wennberg, Werenski, or Nutti back at all. Oliver and Sonny are developing, they'll get more ice time when they show they can handle the physical aspect of the game....or they won't if they can't handle it. Sonny has great playmaking ability, but he has to temper that with experience to avoid give aways that result in odd man rushes. Bjorkstrand is closer and I think he'll have a bigger role next season with his great wrist shot....he needs to add some strength on the puck to his game.

The only reason this is a talking point is because many of our veterans didn't show up in the playoffs, and those individuals and their futures need to be evaluated in the off season.
 

EDM

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Mar 8, 2008
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I would argue that Pooh is way behind in his development curve.
 

Big Z Man 1990

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Jun 4, 2011
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Don't say anything at all
This season is just further proof that other than 2004 and 2012, Torts has not been good in the postseason. Our opponent was a coach with a far worse track record in the postseason.

If Torts really wants to succeed in the postseason he should be coaching in the SPHL.
 

Iron Balls McGinty

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Aug 5, 2005
8,497
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I would argue that Pooh is way behind in his development curve.
Wennberg is the only one to blame for that. He only took 74 shots on goal in 66 games. There is not enough sense of urgency or drive to his game. If you are no threat to shoot you know you only need to worry about shutting down his passing lanes. Torts preached more than enough times he needs to shoot more.
 

EDM

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Mar 8, 2008
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IB u also miss the point that Pooh’s disgraceful faceoff performances have shown no significant improvement over the years. And if a player is still given significant ice tome despite making no real effort to improve his game, that is on the coach (or the GM in this case who handed out a gravy contract that was not earned).
 

KJ Dangler

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Oct 21, 2006
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This is right on point. It's probably my biggest beef with Torts other than the need to fire Larsen (and maybe that's a Jarmo call).

Just musing.......It'd be an interesting fantasy scenario to see how Torts would have handled last year's Toronto team.

And BTW, my comments shouldn't be taken as "fire Torts"
Seem like the logical thing to do with Larsen is have him replace Madden and coach the monsters. He did pretty well as coach there
 
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Iron Balls McGinty

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Aug 5, 2005
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IB u also miss the point that Pooh’s disgraceful faceoff performances have shown no significant improvement over the years. And if a player is still given significant ice tome despite making no real effort to improve his game, that is on the coach (or the GM in this case who handed out a gravy contract that was not earned).
That's a front office problem and not a Wennberg problem. It's not a secret this team didn't have enough legitimate centers when this season started. Even with PLD stepping up, Dubinsky regressed so its a wash. If you take ice time away from Wennberg who do are you supposed to give it to? Talent at center needs to be addressed but Wennberg is not the player everyone wants him to be. He's not going to be any different and that is all on him. Just accept who he is (too soft to play in a bottom 6 roles and not offensive minded enough to truly excel in a top 6 role) and find people who can do the job.
 

Lumbus

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Nov 25, 2016
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Man , Calvert didn’t seem too pleased with Torts today



Interesting. While Torts' comments were almost entirely true, I'm not entirely sure how to interpret this... is this a frustrated outgoing UFA taking a parting shot or 2? A CBJ veteran voicing the opinion of many other players in the room? Neither? Something in between?
 

ScreamingWild

Jobu Mojo
Oct 4, 2006
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Interesting. While Torts' comments were almost entirely true, I'm not entirely sure how to interpret this... is this a frustrated outgoing UFA taking a parting shot or 2? A CBJ veteran voicing the opinion of many other players in the room? Neither? Something in between?

You need only to listen to the additional comments of Letestu (lack of playing time) and Dubi (lack of playing time [to even attempt to improve his game]) and there is obviously a recurring theme that the room felt he mismanaged their times. It was noticeable before the playoffs and glaring during. By the time the team had lost three games in a row I believe most rational people would have at least considered spreading out the minutes because what he was doing was NOT WORKING. Those guys that had their asses stapled to the bench helped get the team into the playoffs and he shat all over them in my opinion. And I'm sure I'll not get much agreement here but last year I could have torn my hair out at times because of his refusal to give ice time to William Karlsson... and we all know how that story ends. Karlsson didn't magically become a talented player and team leader once he touched down in Vegas, he's had a coach betting on him to be successful and willing to give him the ice time to prove it. I'd sure as hell stake my money on Matt Calvert being more of a asset for this team and in that room than Tortorella will ever be again.
 

We Want Ten

Make Chinakov Great Again
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I guess i'm kinda confused on why some are so strongly defending Torts. I'm not advocating for his firing, but outside of the start of the year, this team was listless and a playoff bubble team until the TDL. I saw him make no real improvements from mid October to the TDL. The team didn't get better until our roster changed. In his defense I love his passion and the culture change he has brought.

I appreciate what he has done, and can see why one would support him, I just don't see it as such a crazy idea to see his faults as well.

I guess i'm just indifferent to him, leaning towards sour after his line management in the PO's and his refusal to address/fire someone over the PP. I do think this next year will be his last here if we struggle or maybe even if we have a first round exit again.
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
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I guess i'm just indifferent to him, leaning towards sour after his line management in the PO's and his refusal to address/fire someone over the PP. I do think this next year will be his last here if we struggle or maybe even if we have a first round exit again.

Firing Brad Larsen or Brad Shaw in the season is a panic move. One where we would need to replace them with someone in Cleveland, and hurt their team, or hire someone who is not currently employed in the NHL. Other teams won't give up their coaches or minor league coaches in season, and you need permission to speak to them. Even if you do get the permission and hire someone, you have to get them here, have them learn the players, have the players learn him, and then you can set up a system. Once you start your season with your coaches they're typically there unless things go drastically wrong, even most of the time when coaches are fired mid season they are replaced by someone on their staff on an interim basis.

Shaw and/or Larsen COULD get fired now. The season is over. So, we'll see.
 

Ruudukkopupuset

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Mar 29, 2018
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In Wennberg and Atkinson cases I do not understand why it was even necessary by coaching to begin pushing them out of their game or why there has been so high expectations that suddenly being a centre who can strengthen up any of the lines isn't worth 4,9 million dollars even though Wennberg has brought some of those dollars already back in Panarin and Saad merchandise, enabled by his play in a great tandem with Hartnell and Dano. Wennberg is at great age with potential to play his whole career for the Blue Jackets, being in this regard brick in both contract and far more importantly in play so the whole narrative isn't very helpful or illuminating.

If you use William Karlsson as an comparison it ain't like he got into the volume shooting game when he became an overnight sensation although he seemingly got pretty good chances to score. Will Bill plays in a great team structure and on a line of underrated players who apparently understand that is the three men game in which their talent is found. With whom else than Wennberg could Karlsson have even been utilized last season? I would say Hartnell but of course he was being healthy scratched and being driven off the town the whole season so it wouldn't have been exactly a vote of confidence to be put into the fourth line with Hartnell. If the Blue Jackets have Panarin, Wennberg, Anderson and Jenner as forward bricks, with potential in Dubois and auxiliary support in Atkinson then taking the vertical route requires everyones particular skill (not the overall or generally appreciated) to be utilized to the maximum instead of inventing more powder for which Leonardo da Vinci's brother in his time became known for.

We could begun by reciting Rami Summanen, in his book Our Day, the Difficult Skill of Coaching.

3666834676.jpg


"In HIFK we had a player, Jan Caloun, who could score 2-3 goals in a game and I hapless pondered only how he could learn to play defence better."

Why is Atkinson in example emulating either Pat Kane or a very poor man's Selänne-Kariya tandem when he could play his own game elsewhere than on Panarin's flank which usually is the most important offensive line. Jori Lehterä would score many points with Panarin on his wing as he has vision and positioning which makes others better while actually helping the unit as a whole.

I wonder if there even was any other team in the Stanley Cup play-offs that was throwing those weather observation pucks on a high arc from the defence into the other team's blueline.
 

213 Sentinel

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Jul 2, 2006
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I guess i'm kinda confused on why some are so strongly defending Torts. I'm not advocating for his firing, but outside of the start of the year, this team was listless and a playoff bubble team until the TDL. I saw him make no real improvements from mid October to the TDL. The team didn't get better until our roster changed. In his defense I love his passion and the culture change he has brought.

I appreciate what he has done, and can see why one would support him, I just don't see it as such a crazy idea to see his faults as well.

I guess i'm just indifferent to him, leaning towards sour after his line management in the PO's and his refusal to address/fire someone over the PP. I do think this next year will be his last here if we struggle or maybe even if we have a first round exit again.

Perfect. Yes. I'm not a hater, but my appreciation of his coaching took a pretty big hit the more scrutiny I gave it, especially during the playoffs. And "I'm not talking about the power play for the rest of the season" still has a lingering bad taste in my mouth.
 
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CarolinaBlueJacket

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Mar 3, 2011
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In Wennberg and Atkinson cases I do not understand why it was even necessary by coaching to begin pushing them out of their game or why there has been so high expectations that suddenly being a centre who can strengthen up any of the lines isn't worth 4,9 million dollars even though Wennberg has brought some of those dollars already back in Panarin and Saad merchandise, enabled by his play in a great tandem with Hartnell and Dano. Wennberg is at great age with potential to play his whole career for the Blue Jackets, being in this regard brick in both contract and far more importantly in play so the whole narrative isn't very helpful or illuminating.

If you use William Karlsson as an comparison it ain't like he got into the volume shooting game when he became an overnight sensation although he seemingly got pretty good chances to score. Will Bill plays in a great team structure and on a line of underrated players who apparently understand that is the three men game in which their talent is found. With whom else than Wennberg could Karlsson have even been utilized last season? I would say Hartnell but of course he was being healthy scratched and being driven off the town the whole season so it wouldn't have been exactly a vote of confidence to be put into the fourth line with Hartnell. If the Blue Jackets have Panarin, Wennberg, Anderson and Jenner as forward bricks, with potential in Dubois and auxiliary support in Atkinson then taking the vertical route requires everyones particular skill (not the overall or generally appreciated) to be utilized to the maximum instead of inventing more powder for which Leonardo da Vinci's brother in his time became known for.

We could begun by reciting Rami Summanen, in his book Our Day, the Difficult Skill of Coaching.

3666834676.jpg


"In HIFK we had a player, Jan Caloun, who could score 2-3 goals in a game and I hapless pondered only how he could learn to play defence better."

Why is Atkinson in example emulating either Pat Kane or a very poor man's Selänne-Kariya tandem when he could play his own game elsewhere than on Panarin's flank which usually is the most important offensive line. Jori Lehterä would score many points with Panarin on his wing as he has vision and positioning which makes others better while actually helping the unit as a whole.

I wonder if there even was any other team in the Stanley Cup play-offs that was throwing those weather observation pucks on a high arc from the defence into the other team's blueline.

Jan Caloun played maybe 10 games for the Jackets in the first year (I think). Its amazing how well I remember CBJ player names, even if they only played a couple of games.
 

KJ Dangler

Registered User
Oct 21, 2006
8,277
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Columbus
Torts playoff line management just brings into focus, how a player like William Karlsson can leave this organization, and go to Vegas, and become an elite goal scorer, 1st line center. Torts doesnt coach to particular players strengths . He demands that players fit his system, and will coach them to change their game to play his system. And that is why I think hes a terrible coach for the jackets. Karlsson was buried in a checking role, lucky to get 12 minutes a night. He had to not play to his strengths, but played the role Torts wanted for him , in limited minutes. He didnt become ultra skilled the moment he left this organization. People try to dismiss his production this season, try to dismiss his shooting percentage, etc. But he is a highly skilled hockey player that is good in the faceoff dot, is a very fast skater, and has the ability to flat out snipe the puck. Keep in mind, this is a position that we were very shallow at. Really makes me wonder what they look for in practice. Now, lets look at Bjorkstrand. he's one of the league leaders in points per minutes played, when Torts came out with his famous, he needs to check to play, Bs. Bjork plummeted the rest of the season, and was a shell of himself.

Milano... he was the goal scoring leader for this team early in the season, and couldn't even stick here. He gets nicked up, goes back to Cleveland, was productive, they bring him back up, and he ends up with 14 goals in 55 games. This is with 11/12 minutes per night.

We get to the playoffs, Wennberg gets hurt the first game, and Torts totally goes away from rolling 4 lines , essentially sticks with 3 lines, and skates his forwards into the ground. Keep in mind that 88% of teams that start a series up 2-0 , go on to win. Yet we have people in here saying this thread is ridiculous. Personally, Im tired of mediocrity , or trust the process. A good coach , coaches his players to their strengths. Torts tries to change all players into what he wants as a hockey player, and is massively holding back their potential.
 

Grouchy

Registered User
Nov 2, 2006
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Canal Winchester, OH
Is it safe to say Torts is a capable coach and can likely get us into the playoffs or very close each season but if the team ever wants to move beyond round one CBJ should consider looking elsewhere (and if so, who?)
 

burple

Registered User
Sep 30, 2005
215
26
Columbus, Ohio
Torts playoff line management just brings into focus, how a player like William Karlsson can leave this organization, and go to Vegas, and become an elite goal scorer, 1st line center. Torts doesnt coach to particular players strengths . He demands that players fit his system, and will coach them to change their game to play his system. And that is why I think hes a terrible coach for the jackets. Karlsson was buried in a checking role, lucky to get 12 minutes a night. He had to not play to his strengths, but played the role Torts wanted for him , in limited minutes. He didnt become ultra skilled the moment he left this organization. People try to dismiss his production this season, try to dismiss his shooting percentage, etc. But he is a highly skilled hockey player that is good in the faceoff dot, is a very fast skater, and has the ability to flat out snipe the puck. Keep in mind, this is a position that we were very shallow at. Really makes me wonder what they look for in practice. Now, lets look at Bjorkstrand. he's one of the league leaders in points per minutes played, when Torts came out with his famous, he needs to check to play, Bs. Bjork plummeted the rest of the season, and was a shell of himself.

Milano... he was the goal scoring leader for this team early in the season, and couldn't even stick here. He gets nicked up, goes back to Cleveland, was productive, they bring him back up, and he ends up with 14 goals in 55 games. This is with 11/12 minutes per night.

We get to the playoffs, Wennberg gets hurt the first game, and Torts totally goes away from rolling 4 lines , essentially sticks with 3 lines, and skates his forwards into the ground. Keep in mind that 88% of teams that start a series up 2-0 , go on to win. Yet we have people in here saying this thread is ridiculous. Personally, Im tired of mediocrity , or trust the process. A good coach , coaches his players to their strengths. Torts tries to change all players into what he wants as a hockey player, and is massively holding back their potential.
 
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