The Fire Boucher Movement

[Ice-Tray]

The problem with Boucher though Tray is his style is archaic and not conducive to young skilled players

I won't argue with that, but he knows that it's not working. He's a smart guy, and if he realizes that we have to play differently, I'd like to see what he can come up with. There was an interesting comment from Wideman last night while he joined the guys in the booth, he said something along the lines of GB's system focused on speed, speed, speed. He preached moving the puck up quickly from D to forward and having the forwards attack.

I'd like to see what he comes up with, if we see a good season, and a bad season, and there is one more year on his deal, let's see what the tie break has in store. Young coaches and gm's need space to make mistakes and grow, just like players, we don't want to jump ship too early.

Just my opinion

 

[Alex1234]

Dont fire him please

So we can still enjoy watching Hoffman on the 3rd line next season...

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I won't argue with that, but he knows that it's not working. He's a smart guy, and if he realizes that we have to play differently, I'd like to see what he can come up with. There was an interesting comment from Wideman last night while he joined the guys in the booth, he said something along the lines of GB's system focused on speed, speed, speed. He preached moving the puck up quickly from D to forward and having the forwards attack.

I'd like to see what he comes up with, if we see a good season, and a bad season, and there is one more year on his deal, let's see what the tie break has in store. Young coaches and gm's need space to make mistakes and grow, just like players, we don't want to jump ship too early.

Just my opinion

If he knows that something isn't working why doesn't he change it? The only change has been due to injuries and pretty much a throw away season when it could have been somewhat salvaged had he shook his stubbornness early on

 

[Ice-Tray]

If he knows that something isn't working why doesn't he change it? The only change has been due to injuries and pretty much a throw away season when it could have been somewhat salvaged had he shook his stubbornness early on

He has made changes, he just hasn't made wholesale changes. Also, there's not a whole lot you can do mid season. He's not going to complete overhaul the team's system of play mid season, and he's also not going to deviate from the systematic development of the rookies just for the heck of it.

I'm not sure how anyone can look back at this season, and how the players played, and claim that if only the coach had changed the system, or played the rookies more, we would been in the mix.

The coach is there to mold the players to the system, not the other way around. We just came from a wildly successful season last year, it would make sense for GB to expect the team to play reasonably well this year, and that it would take some time to bring the new guys up to speed. It would be unreasonable for anyone to expect GB to abandon the team's system at the first sign of adversity.

There were key young players betting more time as the season went on (Dzingle), but the rookies were brought up and down by the GM, and inserted into the line up and played in a way that was best for the development of the player, not necessarily with an eye to maximize wins. Personally I think many fans simply miss the changes made because they aren't paying attention beyond blaming the coach for team losses. To listen to Wideman speak, GB has made changes and has been coaching the team to play the way most of us want it to play. I don't think there is any argument to be made against the idea that the players let us down this year, starting with the Captain.

I expect an newish system, and refreshed players to start next season, especially with the break out of Duchene, and the chemistry with Hoffman.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

He has made changes, he just hasn't made wholesale changes. Also, there's not a whole lot you can do mid season. He's not going to complete overhaul the team's system of play mid season, and he's also not going to deviate from the systematic development of the rookies just for the heck of it.

I'm not sure how anyone can look back at this season, and how the players played, and claim that if only the coach had changed the system, or played the rookies more, we would been in the mix.

The coach is there to mold the players to the system, not the other way around. We just came from a wildly successful season last year, it would make sense for GB to expect the team to play reasonably well this year, and that it would take some time to bring the new guys up to speed. It would be unreasonable for anyone to expect GB to abandon the team's system at the first sign of adversity.

There were key young players betting more time as the season went on (Dzingle), but the rookies were brought up and down by the GM, and inserted into the line up and played in a way that was best for the development of the player, not necessarily with an eye to maximize wins. Personally I think many fans simply miss the changes made because they aren't paying attention beyond blaming the coach for team losses. To listen to Wideman speak, GB has made changes and has been coaching the team to play the way most of us want it to play. I don't think there is any argument to be made against the idea that the players let us down this year, starting with the Captain.

I expect an newish system, and refreshed players to start next season, especially with the break out of Duchene, and the chemistry with Hoffman.

Its not a guarantee that changing the way the system is implemented would cement this team in the post season but why not try? Deviate from the rigid system. Stop trying to fit a square block into a triangular hole. What does he have to lose?

By molding players into a failing system, wouldn't that be counter productive for young players? The system has been failing for the majority of this season. The players and fans are tired of it. The system wasn't as successful last year IMO. Weren't we the ONLY team in the playoffs with a negative goal differential? Sitting back constantly is not a good recipe for LONG TERM success.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Its not a guarantee that changing the way the system is implemented would cement this team in the post season but why not try? Deviate from the rigid system. Stop trying to fit a square block into a triangular hole. What does he have to lose?

By molding players into a failing system, wouldn't that be counter productive for young players? The system has been failing for the majority of this season. The players and fans are tired of it. The system wasn't as successful last year IMO. Weren't we the ONLY team in the playoffs with a negative goal differential? Sitting back constantly is not a good recipe for LONG TERM success.

I hear what you're saying, I just am not sure that GB has just been sitting back, I thing changes to play style mid season are always going to be small, one thing at a time, because the team has to hit the ice with some structure.

Also, I don't agree that players just get to be tired of the system, stop playing effectively, and get to be lumped in with fans as being unhappy with the coach. First, there is no evidence that the players have stopped playing for GB, and second, there are ways to go about changing the way the team plays without sucking completely. The captain of the team gave up on the season so long ago, while the coach has continued to try and get the team to win games.

The kids, Duchene, and Hoffman are playing great now, and the coach has the team looking "good" in terms of attacking play for the last little while now. Once we have the captain on board again we should look a lot better next season. I have no doubt that we will be an attacking team next year that has a strong defensive conscience.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I hear what you're saying, I just am not sure that GB has just been sitting back, I thing changes to play style mid season are always going to be small, one thing at a time, because the team has to hit the ice with some structure.

Also, I don't agree that players just get to be tired of the system, stop playing effectively, and get to be lumped in with fans as being unhappy with the coach. First, there is no evidence that the players have stopped playing for GB, and second, there are ways to go about changing the way the team plays without sucking completely. The captain of the team gave up on the season so long ago, while the coach has continued to try and get the team to win games.

The kids, Duchene, and Hoffman are playing great now, and the coach has the team looking "good" in terms of attacking play for the last little while now. Once we have the captain on board again we should look a lot better next season. I have no doubt that we will be an attacking team next year that has a strong defensive conscience.

Yea I just don't see it. He hasn't changed his ways of coaching what makes you think he will start now? Maybe he does? Its his last chance at an NHL job? You always tend to fall back on tendencies and habits, whether they are good or bad.

Listen to some of the post game interviews from the players after a loss. If those aren't signs of the players not believing in the system I don't know what is. Do you give it your all for something you don't believe in, maybe just for guys who have a contract to earn but everyone else? How can the entire team minus a couple players look completely lost? They didn't forget to play hockey now did they? I mean you don't have to be world beaters but they've looked for the most part like chickens with their heads cut off. Its painful to watch at times

They are playing great maybe because the pressure is off for winning games? Who knows, but a small sample size of playing 'good' < large sample size of playing bad.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Yea I just don't see it. He hasn't changed his ways of coaching what makes you think he will start now? Maybe he does? Its his last chance at an NHL job? You always tend to fall back on tendencies and habits, whether they are good or bad.

Listen to some of the post game interviews from the players after a loss. If those aren't signs of the players not believing in the system I don't know what is. Do you give it your all for something you don't believe in, maybe just for guys who have a contract to earn but everyone else? How can the entire team minus a couple players look completely lost? They didn't forget to play hockey now did they? I mean you don't have to be world beaters but they've looked for the most part like chickens with their heads cut off. Its painful to watch at times

They are playing great maybe because the pressure is off for winning games? Who knows, but a small sample size of playing 'good' < large sample size of playing bad.

Totally understand where you're coming from, and you may be right. Personally I just don't want us to cut and run from this coach before giving him another chance with a new coaching mandate. If he seriously falters out of the gate we can always make a change then.

Like I said, maybe you're right, but I'd like to see us find out for sure before firing him because I see some good in him as a coach.

I guess we'll see what happens!

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Totally understand where you're coming from, and you may be right. Personally I just don't want us to cut and run from this coach before giving him another chance with a new coaching mandate. If he seriously falters out of the gate we can always make a change then.

Like I said, maybe you're right, but I'd like to see us find out for sure before firing him because I see some good in him as a coach.

I guess we'll see what happens!

I have changed my mind over the past couple of months. At first I wanted to give him a month into next season but now I think the best decision is just to let him go at the end of the season and find someone new.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Totally understand where you're coming from, and you may be right. Personally I just don't want us to cut and run from this coach before giving him another chance with a new coaching mandate. If he seriously falters out of the gate we can always make a change then.

Like I said, maybe you're right, but I'd like to see us find out for sure before firing him because I see some good in him as a coach.

I guess we'll see what happens!

The issue with this is that upper management would be telling the coach how to perform his job. I don't know if that would go well with anyone.

 

[pzeeman]

The issue with this is that upper management would be telling the coach how to perform his job. I don't know if that would go well with anyone.

You see being given a mandate as being told how to coach?

"Guy, your point percentage for this rest of year won't count against you. Instead of focusing on winning, can you work in some of the young talent? We'd really like to see what we have."

There are ways to do this without telling him how to coach. If GB and PD have the relationship that they like to tell us they have, then having an open conversation with buy-in by everyone at the end of the meeting shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

You see being given a mandate as being told how to coach?

"Guy, your point percentage for this rest of year won't count against you. Instead of focusing on winning, can you work in some of the young talent? We'd really like to see what we have."

There are ways to do this without telling him how to coach. If GB and PD have the relationship that they like to tell us they have, then having an open conversation with buy-in by everyone at the end of the meeting shouldn't be a problem.

Why hasn't it been done this season?

 

[pzeeman]

Why hasn't it been done this season?

Couldn't tell you, because I'm not in their meetings. Maybe PD truly believed around Christmas that this team still had a chance. A lot of people here did. "If they take those games against BOS, there's still hope!" So perhaps PD let him continue coaching as he saw fit, the way Guy feels would best lead to a win.

I do hope that by now, they've had a meeting that's started with "Guy, why isn't the system working?"

 

[Ice-Tray]

I can see the merit of both arguments, and have settled on best out of three. It is because I think GB is a good coach, a good communicator, and has a good relationship with the players and management. I think he wants to win, I think he's a thinking man and has the capacity to make a coaching switch to fit our new mandate going forward.

We see coaches do it all the time, and with one excellent season, and one disaster season on the resume, we can afford to see how the tie break goes, especially since he's already got a contract in place. We can afford to give good people a chance. I still see the possibility of a long-term coach in GB.

 

[Sensfanatic]

I suspect he’ll be here to start the next season unless the player exit interviews are inordinately critical of him (which is very possible).

At some point the organization may decide to hire a coach that has some NHL success pedigree. Last one we had was Bryan Murray...

 

[Dino Tkachuk]

Totally understand where you're coming from, and you may be right. Personally I just don't want us to cut and run from this coach before giving him another chance with a new coaching mandate. If he seriously falters out of the gate we can always make a change then.

Like I said, maybe you're right, but I'd like to see us find out for sure before firing him because I see some good in him as a coach.

I guess we'll see what happens!

I am thinking this as well. What happened between last year in terms of playing the system? I don't even care about results at this point, this looks like a completely different team from last year. Given how the team finished last year it wouldn't make sense for him to start the season with a completely different system from last year. That said, you can now see small changes to the team's play without completely tearing it down. That is probably all that can be expected mid-season.

I hope he gets to start the season next year but is on a very short leash. I also hope that he goes home at the end of the year and re-evaluates the players that he now has on the roster, identifies a better system for today's NHL and makes adjustments as required, similar to what the Raptor's did last off-season.

 

[SanderSen]

Oh yes, please, let's just fire yet another coach.

It's a mess of a year, and I am not that surprised after the long playoff run and team wide injuries and battering the team had through it. A lot of key players played when they should not have and Karlsson never had time to fully recover.

Sometimes you need to breath deep and regroup.

 

[BatherSeason]

What happened between last year in terms of playing the system?

He handpicked bad players to replace Methot, Mac, Stalberg, Wingels and plays these bad players far too much.

I hope he gets to start the season next year but is on a very short leash

Too much risk involved here. Also tough to hire a proper replacement in season, its happened, but the best guys are available in the off-season. Who do you hire then? Why bring in a new coach with a new system with no training camp to get the players to buy in? Why throw away a season just so you can give a bad coach a second chance??

I also hope that he goes home at the end of the year and re-evaluates the players that he has on the roster and what makes the best teams the best teams in today's NHL, similar to what the Raptor's did last off-season.

The Raps were still the 3 seed last season, they finished 51-31. They lost in the second round of the playoffs to Lebron James and the Cavs, who basically swept their way into the NBA Finals last year, so not sure this is a good comparison. Ottawa overachieved during their playoff run, took advantage of other teams injuries and "Erik Karlsson-ed" their way to being one goal away from going to the Finals.

We can afford to give good people a chance

This happens far too often in hockey. Just because he is "good guy", doesn't mean he is a good coach.

 

[Dino Tkachuk]

He handpicked bad players to replace Methot, Mac, Stalberg, Wingels and plays these bad players far too much.

First, how do we know he handpicked anyone? I believe that's an assumption on your part. Second, how do you know there were better options available that wanted to come to Ottawa?

Too much risk involved here. Also tough to hire a proper replacement in season, its happened, but the best guys are available in the off-season. Who do you hire then? Why bring in a new coach with a new system with no training camp to get the players to buy in? Why throw away a season just so you can give a bad coach a second chance??

If Joel Quennville (maybe Vigneault) is available then you make the change all day long. If during the exit interviews it appears he has lost the room, you make the change. Otherwise I don't want another rookie coach to start the season with this group.

The Raps were still the 3 seed last season, they finished 51-31. They lost in the second round of the playoffs to Lebron James and the Cavs, who basically swept their way into the NBA Finals last year, so not sure this is a good comparison. Ottawa overachieved during their playoff run, took advantage of other teams injuries and "Erik Karlsson-ed" their way to being one goal away from going to the Finals.

Record has nothing to do with it. This team has good skilled pieces to work with. The coach needs to identify and implement a system that gets the most out of that group and wins games. That is job #1 and everything else is in support of that goal.

 

[Cosmix]

He has made changes, he just hasn't made wholesale changes. Also, there's not a whole lot you can do mid season. He's not going to complete overhaul the team's system of play mid season, and he's also not going to deviate from the systematic development of the rookies just for the heck of it.

I'm not sure how anyone can look back at this season, and how the players played, and claim that if only the coach had changed the system, or played the rookies more, we would been in the mix.

The coach is there to mold the players to the system, not the other way around. We just came from a wildly successful season last year, it would make sense for GB to expect the team to play reasonably well this year, and that it would take some time to bring the new guys up to speed. It would be unreasonable for anyone to expect GB to abandon the team's system at the first sign of adversity.

There were key young players betting more time as the season went on (Dzingle), but the rookies were brought up and down by the GM, and inserted into the line up and played in a way that was best for the development of the player, not necessarily with an eye to maximize wins. Personally I think many fans simply miss the changes made because they aren't paying attention beyond blaming the coach for team losses. To listen to Wideman speak, GB has made changes and has been coaching the team to play the way most of us want it to play. I don't think there is any argument to be made against the idea that the players let us down this year, starting with the Captain.

I expect an newish system, and refreshed players to start next season, especially with the break out of Duchene, and the chemistry with Hoffman.

One thing I have noticed in recent games is that the team is forechecking with two players more often rather than falling back into the 1-2-2 or whatever you might call it in the neutral zone.

Regarding your comment about the “wildly successful season last year”, while I enjoyed the team making the playoffs and the longer playoff run, I was disappointed in the regular season play where the team barely made the playoffs. I think the team was very fortunate to go that far in the playoffs. I still viewed the team as a bubble team for making the playoffs this year, but I was very wrong about that.

 

[DJB]

Was i crazy last night? Or did anyone else notice a change in our system?

Defensively in our own zone we still played the same. Tight box, passive play. Although we dis break out different. No more stupid passes in front of the net. Chip plays off the boards or glass much safer.

However in the offensive zone we actually attacked with 3 forwards and tue d were pinching all night which i love. I saw Karlsson, Ceci and Chabot below the Leafs goal line multiple times. That never happened in the past.

And then once the Leafs had the puck we didn't see a 1 3 1 with the left D step up. I cant recall seeing it but again maybe I've lost my mind.

Hopefully we stick with a more traditional system.