The English Lower League thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Stray Wasp

Registered User
May 5, 2009
4,561
1,503
South east London
And for anyone who isn't aware of the full details:

1) sunderland lead 1-0 with less than five minutes left.
2) Darren Bent, their former star striker who left acrimoniously, came on as a sub. sunderland fans understandably booed him. Bent scored the equaliser.
3) Even though a draw might have kept them alive, sunderland's arse duly dropped out.
4) Burton is managed by Nigel Clough. He was born in sunderland when his father was their star striker.
5) Brian Clough said he'd have crawled to sunderland on his hands and knees over broken glass for a chance to be their manager. sunderland never presented him the chance.
 

Stray Wasp

Registered User
May 5, 2009
4,561
1,503
South east London
In my lifetime, I have seen Newcastle United reach two FA Cup finals.

I have seen Newcastle United play in two Champions League campaigns.

And I have seen sunderland- who until 1958 had never even been relegated from the top flight- suffer two drops into the third tier.
 

Stray Wasp

Registered User
May 5, 2009
4,561
1,503
South east London
In 2012-13 sunderland had the Premier League's 13th highest wage bill. They finished 17th, and celebrated because they won on Tyneside.

In 2013-14 they had the Premier League's 8th highest wage bill. They finished 14th, and celebrated because they did the double over Newcastle.

In 2014-15 they had the Premier League's 11th highest wage bill. They finished 16th, and celebrated because they did the double over Newcastle.

In 2015-16 they had the Premier League's 10th highest wage bill. While Leicester- who had the league's 15th highest wage bill- finished as Champions, sunderland finished 17th, and celebrated because they beat Newcastle 3-0, and Newcastle finished the season 18th, and were relegated.

Quite how a club so committed to attaining the highest standards can have slumped so badly beats me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: All Might

HajdukSplit

Registered User
Nov 9, 2005
11,035
762
NJ
Cardiff lose their game in hand away at Derby, the remain 2nd but only one point ahead of Fulham while Villa are four points back. Derby jump into 6th

CARDIFF: Hull City (A), Reading (H)
FULHAM: Sunderland (H), Birmingham City (A)

Neither team has totally difficult fixtures, however for Fulham’s case, Birmingham may still need the result on the final day too

In League 1, Blackburn Rovers promote to the Championship while MK Dons are as good as relegated due to their poor GD

In League 2, Chesterfield officially relegated and out of the football leagues for the first time since 1921!
 

Stray Wasp

Registered User
May 5, 2009
4,561
1,503
South east London
For those interested in the battle to avoid being relegated from the Championship along with relegated sunderland (who were relegated to League One following their 2-1 defeat at home to Burton Albion at the weekend), Barnsley lost 3-0 away to Nottingham Forest.

This leaves Barnsley third bottom, two points behind Bolton, and five back from Birmingham and Reading. But at least they aren't yet relegated. Unlike relegated sunderland, who were relegated to League One following their 2-1 defeat at home to Burton Albion at the weekend.
 

S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
30,714
16,241
Toruń, PL
I was going through the levels of English football to show my brother who doesn't really understand it and found something shocking. What in the bloody hell happened to Wigan Athletic? I know people want to make fun of Sunderland, but Wigan has had a brutal demise from top premier football.

I hope Fulham wins, the EPL is always way more interesting and fun when they're in the top flight. I would also love it if one or both of the Sheffield clubs ever found their way into the EPL.
 

sabremike

Friend To All Giraffes
Aug 30, 2010
22,540
33,783
Brewster, NY
In my lifetime, I have seen Newcastle United reach two FA Cup finals.

I have seen Newcastle United play in two Champions League campaigns.

And I have seen sunderland- who until 1958 had never even been relegated from the top flight- suffer two drops into the third tier.
I'm man enough to admit when I am wrong: the Mackems are a far bigger shit show than Newcastle has ever been. They are now a credible top flight outfit and if they weren't owned by Mike Ashley (a horrible human being just for selling the naming rights to St Jamses Park alone) I could see them fighting for European places in the upcoming years.
 

HoseEmDown

Registered User
Mar 25, 2012
17,452
3,681
I would like to see Fulham and Villa go up. I just think they'll spend more and try to be more competitive than Cardiff. Derby was awful last time they were up so don't want to see them and Middlesbrough were just up, they need more time away. Would be cool to see Millwall go up just for the back to back promotion aspect but don't think they'd be competitive enough.

As for the 3 going down, if it's Southampton I would like to see them bounce right back, the others could wait a few years.
 

Stray Wasp

Registered User
May 5, 2009
4,561
1,503
South east London
I was going through the levels of English football to show my brother who doesn't really understand it and found something shocking. What in the bloody hell happened to Wigan Athletic? I know people want to make fun of Sunderland, but Wigan has had a brutal demise from top premier football.

I hope Fulham wins, the EPL is always way more interesting and fun when they're in the top flight. I would also love it if one or both of the Sheffield clubs ever found their way into the EPL.

To be brutally frank, what happened to Wigan is that they've retreated to nearer their natural level.

I was aware they joined the Football League in the seventies, and in checking the precise date (1978, for anyone who cares to know) I discovered they didn't even finish top of their league the season before. Boston United, who finished five points clear of them, hadn't the required facilities for league football. Wigan did, and up they came.

I posted in the thread about Wenger's retirement how timing played a part in his success. Likewise Dave Whelan at Wigan- he arrived in 1995 when few lower league clubs possessed sugar daddies. His presence proved vital to ensuring Wigan's health around 2001-2001, when the lower leagues were hit by a cataclysm.

ITV (the UK's biggest free-to-air commercial broadcaster) had bid a nine-figure sum for TV rights to cover the Football League First Division (as the Championship was then called), as well as Divisions Two and Three. The deal was signed under an entity called ITV Digital.

Now let's play a guessing game. Did the clubs in those divisions:
A) Carefully plan for the future by variously improving their facilities, developing youth systems, paying off debts and generally stabilising their financial viability
or:
B) Pour every penny they had into inflated transfer fees and salaries for second rate players and therefore find themselves up the proverbial when ITV Digital collapsed?

If you haven't worked out the answer, I'll provide a clue: those who understood administration procedures thrived.

With every new TV deal, and every new sugar daddy's arrival on the scene, the advantage Wigan enjoyed through Whelan came closer to evaporating, and it became increasingly likely that one relegation would hamstring them. Coming from a small town- in which rugby league is the number one sport- they simply don't have the fanbase
to sustain even second tier football now that so many clubs capable of attracting 20-30,000 strong crowds also benefit from parachute payments and / or help from owners whose wealth exceeds Whelan's.

As an illustration: consider this table compiled for the excellent Swiss Ramble blog: The Swiss Ramble: Bournemouth - Welcome To The Pleasuredome

Compare Wigan's position in the Revenue and Revenue excluding Parachute payments respectively for a stark illustration of how strong their resources are.

Turning to Sheffield Wednesday, that's a club whose return to the EPL is longoverdue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: les Habs

S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
30,714
16,241
Toruń, PL
To be brutally frank, what happened to Wigan is that they've retreated to nearer their natural level.

I was aware they joined the Football League in the seventies, and in checking the precise date (1978, for anyone who cares to know) I discovered they didn't even finish top of their league the season before. Boston United, who finished five points clear of them, hadn't the required facilities for league football. Wigan did, and up they came.

I posted in the thread about Wenger's retirement how timing played a part in his success. Likewise Dave Whelan at Wigan- he arrived in 1995 when few lower league clubs possessed sugar daddies. His presence proved vital to ensuring Wigan's health around 2001-2001, when the lower leagues were hit by a cataclysm.

ITV (the UK's biggest free-to-air commercial broadcaster) had bid a nine-figure sum for TV rights to cover the Football League First Division (as the Championship was then called), as well as Divisions Two and Three. The deal was signed under an entity called ITV Digital.

Now let's play a guessing game. Did the clubs in those divisions:
A) Carefully plan for the future by variously improving their facilities, developing youth systems, paying off debts and generally stabilising their financial viability
or:
B) Pour every penny they had into inflated transfer fees and salaries for second rate players and therefore find themselves up the proverbial when ITV Digital collapsed?

If you haven't worked out the answer, I'll provide a clue: those who understood administration procedures thrived.

With every new TV deal, and every new sugar daddy's arrival on the scene, the advantage Wigan enjoyed through Whelan came closer to evaporating, and it became increasingly likely that one relegation would hamstring them. Coming from a small town- in which rugby league is the number one sport- they simply don't have the fanbase
to sustain even second tier football now that so many clubs capable of attracting 20-30,000 strong crowds also benefit from parachute payments and / or help from owners whose wealth exceeds Whelan's.

As an illustration: consider this table compiled for the excellent Swiss Ramble blog: The Swiss Ramble: Bournemouth - Welcome To The Pleasuredome

Compare Wigan's position in the Revenue and Revenue excluding Parachute payments respectively for a stark illustration of how strong their resources are.

Turning to Sheffield Wednesday, that's a club whose return to the EPL is longoverdue.
I fully enjoyed that one SW. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I will take "inflated transfer fees and salaries for second rate players and therefore find themesleves up the proverbial" for $2000 Alex.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fro and les Habs

Stray Wasp

Registered User
May 5, 2009
4,561
1,503
South east London
I'm man enough to admit when I am wrong: the Mackems are a far bigger **** show than Newcastle has ever been. They are now a credible top flight outfit and if they weren't owned by Mike Ashley (a horrible human being just for selling the naming rights to St Jamses Park alone) I could see them fighting for European places in the upcoming years.

Well, one of the reasons I'm so enjoying relegated sunderland's present plight of relegation to League One (which occurred following their 2-1 home defeat to Burton Albion last weekend) is because Newcastle are only a couple of years away from something similar- the clock will begin ticking the second Benitez walks. And since Ashley has begun playing silly games about selling the club already, that lamentable day isn't far off.

Funnily enough in the light of my above post about Wigan, relegated sunderland (whose fate was sealed when they lost 2-1 at home to Burton Albion on Saturday 21 April 2018) are the flip side to the Latics. Around 2010/11 I suggested on this very site that the not relegated to League One as they are now sunderland had come into money too late for it to do them much real good- by then, too many other middling, better-run clubs boasted owners who were happy to pump money into them, which gave the yet to be relegated to League One mackems no real transfer market leverage. Months later, as if to prove my point, Darren Bent (who, lest we forget, returned to haunt then relegation-to-League-One-threatened sunderland by scoring the equaliser for Burton Albion in what escalated into the defeat that confirmed sunderland's relegation to League One) jumped ship to Villa at the first sniff of an £80,000 per week contract. (It appears Bent chose to celebrate this event by never pulling his weight in training ever again).

Relegated sunderland is a club of historic standing and potential (and I mean potential for positive events, not slapstick relegations to League One as a consequence of losing 2-1 at home to Burton Albion on an April afternoon). But it appears they are genuinely incapable of employing anyone competent for more than five minutes, or putting together any coherent strategy regarding how to position themselves.

Placing less emphasis on besting Newcastle United would help. There are those who say relegated sunderland has never recovered from their 1958 relegation- they were once known as 'The Bank of England club'. For me, the crucial moment was the summer of 2001, in the days of the Phillips and Quinn strike partnership. For the second successive season they'd finished seventh in the EPL, beaten Newcastle 2-1 away and drawn at home. (Both seasons, NUFC finished 11th). Both seasons sunderland (for whom relegation to League One lay far in the future) faded from a European position in the season's second half.

Relegated sunderland (as they then weren't), were offered a place in the 2001 Intertoto Cup. If three two-legged ties could be negotiated, here was a possible passport to a first European qualification since 1973. The future League One titans declined. Instead they basked in their status as 'North East Top Dogs', egged on by the ever parochial, ever imbecile local media.

The Intertoto Cup place was next offered to someone else (Aston Villa, I think). Again, noses were turned up. Finally, the opportunity was grasped by...Newcastle United, a club that had enjoyed a fractious, disappointing 2000/2001 season, and had low expectations for the following season. Bobby Robson's first full season in charge had been a disappointment- he'd bought iffily, flirted with a return to managing England, and achieved the unwelcome historical first of losing both Tyne-Wear and Tyne-Tees derbies. Alan Shearer had undergone three knee operations in roughly a year, and seemed odds on for a sad end to his career.

The novelty of the Intertoto gave NUFC's fans a boost. A squad of mainly young players won four straight games- including one against 1860 in Munich's Olympic stadium. On the back of that result Laurent Robert- who'd been reluctant to join the club- signed on the dotted line. By the time Newcastle bungled their final tie against Troyes- losing 4-4 on away goals having taken a 1-0 lead about five minutes in- they'd begun the EPL season with a 1-1 draw at Stamford Bridge. By a quirk of the fixture list, after Troyes they hosted sunderland- the looming derby vanished the risk of brooding. And a certain sheet metal worker's son from Gosforth declared himself fit enough for a place on the bench.

The mediocrities claimed Intertoto participation killed teams in the second half of a season. Newcastle finished fourth. The lot down the road finished 17th. Which was followed by a then record low points total the season after: the legend of relegated sunderland began to take shape.

All for the want of expanded horizons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sabremike

gary69

Registered User
Sep 22, 2004
8,181
1,602
Then and there
- they'd begun the EPL season with a 1-1 draw at Stamford Bridge.

I was at that game, Lampard's league debut for Chelsea. Although I mostly remember the game for a slight delay before the kick-off, when there was no electricity at the stadium and nobody was allowed to enter the stands. One of the staff made a joke that Ken Bates (the then owner) was still trying to collect enough coins to get the electricity back on for the day, but it should happen any minute now...and it did :)
 

les Habs

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
22,236
3,964
Wisconsin
I have seen Newcastle United play in two Champions League campaigns.

I still remember that hiding that Tino Asprilla gave us back in the day. The guy seemed to be able to hover in the air until the ball came for him to smash him a header. Quite an amazing performance that I wonder if it's lost to today's generation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stray Wasp

Stray Wasp

Registered User
May 5, 2009
4,561
1,503
South east London
I still remember that hiding that Tino Asprilla gave us back in the day. The guy seemed to be able to hover in the air until the ball came for him to smash him a header. Quite an amazing performance that I wonder if it's lost to today's generation.

I was a student based outside the north east by 1997, so I only watched that game on TV. But as long as I have a memory, I'll recall the sight of my late father- an undemonstrative man who'd lived through all three FA Cup triumphs during the early fifties, as well as the Fairs Cup win of of '69- springing from the sofa when Tino put NUFC 3-0 up.

Other memories from that night- the SJP crowd singing 'Toon, Toon, black and white army' at maximum volume when Van Gaal's team were probing.

Glenn Hoddle, then England manager, marvelling at half time, and wishing he could bottle the atmosphere and take it to Italy with him for England's decisive World Cup qualifier.

Reflecting upon the final whistle that hundreds of millions of people worldwide had watched the game, and seen Newcastle United at its very best.

Like the man said, all these memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
 
  • Like
Reactions: les Habs

Stray Wasp

Registered User
May 5, 2009
4,561
1,503
South east London
The promotion aspirants met with the Kings of Slapstick at Craven Cottage this evening. Playing their first game since they were relegated following a 2-1 defeat at home to Burton Albion, relegated sunderland did what relegated teams so often do- they played with greater freedom than before the axe fell, and took a 1-0 lead. This must have come as a particular relief to the relegated club's fans, given Fulham boasted a red-hot Aleksander Mitrovic, a player currently on loan from Newcastle United, relegated sunderland's local rivals, who have never dropped out of England's top two divisions at the hand of anyone, let alone Burton Albion while playing at home.

Unfortunately, the relegated side were denied a penalty just before half time. Pretty much immediately, Fulham counter-attacked and scored.

No doubt this development brought back unhappy memories for relegated sunderland of the game when they lead Burton Albion only to concede twice, lose, and suffer relegation.

It came to pass. In the 75th minute, Fulham claimed the lead. And who should score the goal? Why, Aleksander Mitrovic. Fulham held on, leapfrogging Cardiff, over whom they now have a two point advantage- albeit the Bluebirds have a game in hand.

As for relegated sunderland- into whose fresh wounds from the 2-1 home defeat to Burton Albion that relegated them a few thousand tonnes of salt have been poured- they finish the season as the only north east club with a trophy.

Watch these pages for news as to when Wearside's ecstatic public hails the presentation of the Championship's wooden spoon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: maclean

HajdukSplit

Registered User
Nov 9, 2005
11,035
762
NJ
Cardiff one win away from promotion after their victory in Hull, they host Reading on the final day who are still in danger of relegation. Fulham must hope Cardiff drop points as they go to Birmingham. Villa confirmed for 4th place. Still very tight at the bottom with Burton winning their crucial game against Bolton (however their GD is awful). Barnsley also with a massive win and remain outside the bottom three.

Reading 43 -22 (Cardiff away)
Birmingham 43 -32 (Fulham home)
Barnsley 41 -21 (Derby away)
-------------------------
Burton 41 -42 (Preston away)
Bolton 40 -36 (Forest home)

The team in biggest trouble (Bolton) have the easiest fixture on paper as Forest have absolutely nothing to play for, Bolton need to win. Burton and Barnsley are away to teams fighting for that last playoff spot while Reading and Birmingham are playing the promotion candidates with only Birmingham at home

In League 1: Shrewsbury Town and Rotherham United confirmed playoff teams, Charlton one win away while the last spot is very much up for grabs. MK Dons relegated, Northampton Town as good as down due to their horrible GD. Rochdale, Oldham, Wimbledon and Walsall fighting to avoid the final spot (Wimbledon and Walsall have a game in hand)

League 2: Wycbombe Wanderers earn automatic promotion; Exeter and Notts County secure playoff spots while the last two spots are down to Coventry, Lincoln and Mansfield. Barnet with a vital win in Morecambe to give themselves some hope, but the aforementioned Morecambe are still two points ahead
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->