The disjointed nature of US amateur hockey.

[devilsblood]

Having become somewhat familiarized with US amateur hockey only within the past couple years I can't say I have a great understanding of the landscape.

But from the beginning I found it odd that there was the USHL, and then there was the USNTDP which, at a time at least, was part of the USHL, but was not actually in the league. I mean here is the best junior league in the US, but the best of the US players are pulled away from it, by the organization itself.

And this is without even considering US kids that go to Canada. The fair assumption with those kids is, they want to play against the best competition, yet USA hockey, helps broaden the gap between the USHL and the CHL by, as noted above, pulling out it's best players.

Because of this dilution, at least partly, we also see many of the top US players, both from the USHL, and the USNTDP going the college route post draft, even if it is only for one year.

Then this season I see, Mittelstadt, a top USHL kid bail on the league to go play for his HS team. A move that does speak to strength of High School hockey in certain parts of the country, but also one that I can't help but think is due in part to the USHL losing guys to the USNDT and to college.

Compare all this to Canada, where you have the CHL, and that's pretty much it. For 95%, the top kids aged 16-20, you are in one of the branches of the CHL.

Or compare it to other US sports like basketball or football, where kid's hone their skills in HS before moving on to College.

Maybe this is all not a bad thing, it allows US kids to go different routes depending on what fit's them best. And maybe in the end it works to develop the talent as well as is done in Canada and other countries. But on the surface, I can't help but think there is a loss of efficiency in this system. Too many parts seemingly working against one another.

Click to read more...

 

[Whalers Fan]

Having become somewhat familiarized with US amateur hockey only within the past couple years I can't say I have a great understanding of the landscape.

But from the beginning I found it odd that there was the USHL, and then there was the USNTDP which, at a time at least, was part of the USHL, but was not actually in the league. I mean here is the best junior league in the US, but the best of the US players are pulled away from it, by the organization itself.

And this is without even considering US kids that go to Canada. The fair assumption with those kids is, they want to play against the best competition, yet USA hockey, helps broaden the gap between the USHL and the CHL by, as noted above, pulling out it's best players.

Because of this dilution, at least partly, we also see many of the top US players, both from the USHL, and the USNTDP going the college route post draft, even if it is only for one year.

Then this season I see, Mittelstadt, a top USHL kid bail on the league to go play for his HS team. A move that does speak to strength of High School hockey in certain parts of the country, but also one that I can't help but think is due in part to the USHL losing guys to the USNDT and to college.

Compare all this to Canada, where you have the CHL, and that's pretty much it. For 95%, the top kids aged 16-20, you are in one of the branches of the CHL.

Or compare it to other US sports like basketball or football, where kid's hone their skills in HS before moving on to College.

Maybe this is all not a bad thing, it allows US kids to go different routes depending on what fit's them best. And maybe in the end it works to develop the talent as well as is done in Canada and other countries. But on the surface, I can't help but think there is a loss of efficiency in this system. Too many parts seemingly working against one another.

The US NTDP and the USHL are not the same organization. The NTDP is part of USA Hockey, while the USHL is a separate entity. The NTDP plays in the USHL because they need a place for their two teams to compete. While the U18 team also plays some games against NCAA teams, they need more games than they can book against those teams. The U17 squad plays almost all its games versus USHL opponents.

The USHL (and NTDP's) biggest difference from the CHL is that it is considered an amateur league by the NCAA, while CHL players are considered professionals. Therefore any player who signs with the CHL is ineligible to play in the NCAA. So, the NTDP and USHL can be a haven for players who want to keep their options open for going the NCAA route.

As for Canadians, I found it surprising how many Canadian players are ending up playing NCAA hockey. So those players did not go the CHL route at 16-17 years old. Arizona State played against the NTDP U18 team here in Plymouth last month, and they had 9 Canadian players on their roster.

 

[doncherrysgrill]

Going to try and keep it concise. The USHL will not be able to compete at the same level as CHL teams anytime soon because the high school hockey ties in New England and Minnesota (arguably still the two strongholds of US hockey). Parents and players in New England see the education aspect of NE Prep and the high level of hockey and see that as being a better overall situation than sending kids off at 16 to go to school online and play in the USHL. In Minnesota you just have such competitive hockey and a culture of high school hockey that won't die.

Midget hockey is also much stronger in the US than it is in Canada which I think makes things seem more disjointed. Even players with NCAA commitments who get drafted into the USHL/CHL will spend an extra year at 16U to develop before moving onto junior hockey. Being 17 and playing U18 at Honeybaked, Little Caesars, Avalanche, or a prep school that plays a Midget schedule like Shattuck and Culver also doesn't necessarily mean you aren't a damn good hockey player, whereas playing Midget hockey at 17 in Canada probably means that's your ceiling.

The NTDP I think was USA Hockey's way to say "our best players are leaving for Canada, how do we keep them?" and providing a more attractive environment for elite 16 year olds to play in than the USHL/NAHL. In the USHL's current state, do you think any of these top kids choose to play in the league over going to the CHL? I don't. It's tough to see any way they disband the NTDP at this point, but I do agree that if those kids were re-distributed through the USHL you're talking about a much stronger league overall.

 

[swoopster]

Going to try and keep it concise. The USHL will not be able to compete at the same level as CHL teams anytime soon because the high school hockey ties in New England and Minnesota (arguably still the two strongholds of US hockey). Parents and players in New England see the education aspect of NE Prep and the high level of hockey and see that as being a better overall situation than sending kids off at 16 to go to school online and play in the USHL. In Minnesota you just have such competitive hockey and a culture of high school hockey that won't die...

Your post is spot on. I would like to offfer insight on the 1st point.
Coming from MA where I was asst. coach at a well regarded Prep schoool, the emphasis is on education with players geared to go the collegiate route. If a high school player is good enough for a Div I commitment, then he will choose to Prep a year or spend one year in a more localized Junior program to basically grow and fill out for a year. Its really nothing more then a storage facility for the college team to mature a player. It is indeed an exception that a player leaves high school and moves directly to the Div I college team.

The level of the Super Eight schools such as Malden Catholic, Catholic Memorial, Austin Prep etc and really strong town teams like Arlington. Hingham etc provide an extremely high level of competition. Those kids who head to juniors are typically good players from weak programs. With regard to most Catholic and Prep schools recruiting is fierce.

I am sure that Minn. is similar with even a wider player population draw from.

Now living in MI, there has been a definite improvement in the quality of high school hockey, particularly in southern part of the state. There is a greater abundance of strong midget programs which can dilute the high school programs here. There is also a greater likelihood of players from this state playing in the Big 2 US junior programs and more then a few playing in the OHL. The OHL locations of Plymouth, now Flint, Saginaw and close proximity to Sarnia and Windsor make this trasition easier.