The Deployment Of Star Players In The 1980s...

[GlitchMarner]

It seems like some have this notion that players like Gretzky and Lemieux beat up on inept/inferior competition the 1980s, but I can't see why opposing teams would have had poor players on the ice against these two or other star players on any sort of a frequent basis. In fact, I imagine they rarely or never would have faced poor competition (for the time anyway) unless being double-shifted.

It's impossible to look at QoC (quality of competition) stats from the 1980s - is there any credence to the notion that the top stars of that era benefited to any considerable extent from exploiting poor competition?

In a 21 team League, if anything, wouldn't the average NHL roster have been less diluted? Other than the fact that teams kept goons, was the skill level of the average player than any less than the skill level of the average player now?

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[Thenameless]

Agreed. It's not like coaches like Bowman and Arbour were stupid back then. Coaches since time immemorial have always made an effort to stop or at least contain an opposing team's best players in any team sport.

Something that might be true though is that the scrubs of today are probably harder to beat than the scrubs of yesteryear. Even with a smaller league back then, I think there's a better system in today's game (coaching, video analysis, conditioning, practice technique, etc) to improve the weakest link in the chain, that more than makes up for that. So as you've said above, maybe they had a chance to feast a bit more when they were double shifted.

 

[Panthera]

The argument (from people who aren't dumb, at least) isn't that the stars of the 80s got free reign to beat up on scrubs, just that since there were weaker players down the depth charts (and despite the larger number of teams today, I think we can safely say your average fourth line/third pairing guy today is a more competent opponent than their 80s equivalent, especially due to the decrease in dedicated enforcers around the league) and those guys were playing at some points, so just coaches were going to try to keep their best defensive guys out there against the top scorers for the other team, they were also going to try to get their scorers out there against the weaker defensive players on the opposition too.

I definitely think that the weakest competition a guy like Gretzky faced was below what someone like Crosby faces, but just like Crosby only gets the weaker defenders when the opposing coach can't avoid it, Gretzky was likewise only facing those weaker defenders when the other team couldn't help it.

 

[Michael Farkas]

If nothing else, this overly simplistic point: the stars of the 80's, that 21-team league, didn't get to directly beat up on expansion cannon fodder...can't say the same on either side of the 1980's though...

 

[Canadiens1958]

Thread is based on a serious misunderstanding of NHL hockey into the mid 1980's.

Roughly with the 1984-85 season the NHL moved to the short shift game(30-45 second shifts).Previously shifts were about twice as long. By Mario Lemieux's first retirement the transition had been completed. Lemieux was the last who regularly played longer shifts.

Previous to 1984-85 short shifts would be used strategically to combat fatigue, post season overtime.

The move to the short shift game took away the biggest advantage star players had - the ability to control and manage shifts,creating positional and skating advantages over weaker players that would be converted into scoring opportunities.

Today the skill level required to play a short shift is minimal for a forward. Reduced to one or two skates a shift up the ice and back without getting out of position.

 

[The Panther]

The move to the short shift game took away the biggest advantage star players had - the ability to controland manage shifts,creating positional and skating advantages over weaker players that would be converted into scoring opportunities.

While I think you tend to exaggerate the importance and sudden-arrival of "the short shift game" in many of your posts, I basically agree with a lot of what you're saying here in regards to star players of the early-80s' era.

From the Gretzky perspective, certainly a great deal of his points and scoring-chances-created resulted from opponents' bad line-changes or from his being double-shifted strategically.

In a way, that hasn't really changed in the post-red line era because today a lot of the goals also result from bad, or unfavorable, line-changes (the stretch pass from D-zone to blue-line), and coaches do a great deal of line-matching and so on (esp. in long playoff series). But I think the difference is that a Gretzky, or before him an Esposito or Orr or whomever, could play a really long shift when necessary and would really take advantage of lesser players who might suddenly be faced with an elite player coming in on them. More careful line-management today tends to reduce the frequency of that happening.

But in addition to all this, I cannot emphasize enough how different philosophies of the game are from 1985, say, to recent times. In 1985, different teams had completely different philosophies of playing, many of them stemming from the coach (by contrast, today, basically every team plays the same, indistinguishable style). For example, Montreal and Washington emphasized team defence. The Islanders' dynasty emphasized highly disciplined, methodical play. Edmonton and Minnesota emphasized offensive creativity and a sustained attack at all times.

Naturally, players like Gretz and Mario would put up big points against defensively weaker teams, but I don't think this is to the proportion that some people think. In the 80s, Gretzky tended to score the fewest points (per game) against Boston, Washington, and Montreal. Those were the defensively-strongest teams of the period (along with Philly, but he had no problem torching them). However, the Oilers in general tended not to perform well against those teams and they only faced each other 3 times per year, so really too small a sample size to conclude anything (Gretzky also destroyed Montreal and Boston in the '81 and '88 playoffs respectively).

My guess is that peak-Gretzky, instead of scoring 210 points a year for five seasons in the early/mid-80s, would have scored around 165 points a year if he'd been playing only top defensive teams for 80 games a season. The stats back this up.

By the way, it was much commented upon during the 1984-85 season and thereafter that Mike Keenan (in Philly) was the first coach to really push the 'short shift' game. As I was too young to have any perspective on this at the time, do you guys think that's accurate? Were there not coaches who emphasized that prior?

 

[Killion]

By the way, it was much commented upon during the 1984-85 season and thereafter that Mike Keenan (in Philly) was the first coach to really push the 'short shift' game. As I was too young to have any perspective on this at the time, do you guys think that's accurate? Were there not coaches who emphasized that prior?

He was the first to really push it yes, but it had been gaining favor for some time, had been used tactically to great advantage by Fred Shero a decade earlier who in turn was borrowing from the past himself. He employed the short shift in dealing with Buffalo's Gilbert Perrault, ordering his players to take away Perraults "funnel" down the middle & force him into traffic, tiring him out, quick changes from the bench, all 3 lines acting in unison.... on Bobby Orr in constantly dumping the puck into his end & side early on, changing quickly, wearing him out... against most of the higher end talent in the league.

 

[FerrisRox]

In a 21 team League, if anything, wouldn't the average NHL roster have been less diluted? Other than the fact that teams kept goons, was the skill level of the average player than any less than the skill level of the average player now?

I think the rosters may have been more diluted back then because you had a much smaller pool of American players to stock rosters and Europe, with only a small handful of exceptions, wasn't supplying players yet either.

Today's NHL has pipelines of talent from the United States, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Russia, Sweden and Finland all supplying a steady stream of high end talent and other countries also contributing players. The pool of talent that today's NHL draws from is significantly larger.

Also, as you point out, every team had *at least* one knuckle dragger who in many cases wasn't really a hockey player at all. It was not unusual for a team to ice two forwards that were simply goons and, in many cases, a defensemen that would fit into that category as well.

 

[Canadiens1958]

He was the first to really push it yes, but it had been gaining favor for some time, had been used tactically to great advantage by Fred Shero a decade earlier who in turn was borrowing from the past himself. He employed the short shift in dealing with Buffalo's Gilbert Perrault, ordering his players to take away Perraults "funnel" down the middle & force him into traffic, tiring him out, quick changes from the bench, all 3 lines acting in unison.... on Bobby Orr in constantly dumping the puck into his end & side early on, changing quickly, wearing him out... against most of the higher end talent in the league.

Yes, O6 Canadiens and Leafs, Sunday nights. Teams both rolled 4 lines and would short shift if playing three in four nights or four in five. Concession to having the Saturday night televised home game.

Shero, yes and no. Fighting is very tiring hence the necessity. However with ejections to both teams at that time creating many 4 on 4 and 3 on 3 situations, Shero's strong point was managing scrambled lines and short ES situations better than most coaches.

 

[The Panther]

I think the rosters may have been more diluted back then because you had a much smaller pool of American players to stock rosters and Europe, with only a small handful of exceptions, wasn't supplying players yet either.

Not really. There were plenty of European NHL players, including big stars, in the 80s.

For one thing, aside from Gretzky, the two biggest NHL scorers of the 80s were Europeans: Stastny and Kurri.

Also: Nilsson, Ruotsalainen, two more Stastnys, Lindbergh, Naslund, Gradin, Salming, Tikkanen, Sandstrom, Steen, Sinisalo, etc.

Although there were fewer Europeans in numbers, remember that the League was 36％ smaller than today.

The main difference then was that (for obvious reasons) Russians and Czechs couldn't come to the NHL (aside from the Stastnys). But even that changed in 1989-90. By 1991, the NHL started expanding, which, at first, was appropriate to accommodate the influx of former Soviet-country players.

But certainly the American talent level is higher now, yes.

 

[Black Gold Extractor]

Not really. There were plenty of European NHL players, including big stars, in the 80s.

For one thing, aside from Gretzky, the two biggest NHL scorers of the 80s were Europeans: Stastny and Kurri.

Also: Nilsson, Ruotsalainen, two more Stastnys, Lindbergh, Naslund, Gradin, Salming, Tikkanen, Sandstrom, Steen, Sinisalo, etc.

Although there were fewer Europeans in numbers, remember that the League was 36％ smaller than today.

The main difference then was that (for obvious reasons) Russians and Czechs couldn't come to the NHL (aside from the Stastnys). But even that changed in 1989-90. By 1991, the NHL started expanding, which, at first, was appropriate to accommodate the influx of former Soviet-country players.

But certainly the American talent level is higher now, yes.

I guess it depends on what you mean by diluted. Certainly, there was more than enough talent to supply the NHL with elite players since the O6 era regardless of countries of origin. If that's all that someone cares about, then the league hasn't been in dire straits since WWII started. However, if we're talking about how deep an average team is beyond its stars, there are other means of studying this.

Just by looking at VsX/Vs3 scores of average 2nd liners, it's pretty clear that there was a massive drop-off when the league doubled in size, but it has held pretty fairly steady ever since 1968. There was a smaller drop-off in the 90's when the league underwent another expansion to 30, but it rebounded before the 2004-05 lockout. For what it's worth, it also appears that depth has been better in the last few seasons since any time after the 1967 expansion (though still a far cry from O6-era levels).

 

[FerrisRox]

Not really. There were plenty of European NHL players, including big stars, in the 80s.

For one thing, aside from Gretzky, the two biggest NHL scorers of the 80s were Europeans: Stastny and Kurri.

Also: Nilsson, Ruotsalainen, two more Stastnys, Lindbergh, Naslund, Gradin, Salming, Tikkanen, Sandstrom, Steen, Sinisalo, etc.

Although there were fewer Europeans in numbers, remember that the League was 36％ smaller than today.

The main difference then was that (for obvious reasons) Russians and Czechs couldn't come to the NHL (aside from the Stastnys). But even that changed in 1989-90. By 1991, the NHL started expanding, which, at first, was appropriate to accommodate the influx of former Soviet-country players.

But certainly the American talent level is higher now, yes.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Europeans were much rarer in the 1980's. Russia and the former Czechoslovakia is a massive breeding ground for top end talent. It was untapped.

Many NHL teams were only beginning to even scout other European cities. In the 1980's there were teams that had a "European Scout" which essentially was a guy that went to a handful of tournaments. In the 80's, it was a novelty if your team drafted a player from Finland or even from the United States.

Check the numbers on what percentage of the entire league was Canadian in the 1980's, and then look at today. The difference clearly indicates a seismic shift in where the players that stock lineups across the league come from.

 

[Canadiens1958]

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Europeans were much rarer in the 1980's. Russia and the former Czechoslovakia is a massive breeding ground for top end talent. It was untapped.

Many NHL teams were only beginning to even scout other European cities. In the 1980's there were teams that had a "European Scout" which essentially was a guy that went to a handful of tournaments. In the 80's, it was a novelty if your team drafted a player from Finland or even from the United States.

Check the numbers on what percentage of the entire league was Canadian in the 1980's, and then look at today. The difference clearly indicates a seismic shift in where the players that stock lineups across the league come from.

Your interpretation is somewhat flawed. Going back to the late 1940s NHL teams were interested in the great Czech, Soviet and Swedish players. Sven Tumba and Ulf Sterner did come over,Tumba on a 5 game pro tryout, Sterner on a contract,actually played a few O6 games for the Rangers.

Basic problem, contrary to your presentation, was that the Europeans could earn more in Europe.

Kent Nilsson and Hakan Loob returned to play in Europe, post 1989 a number of the Soviets preferred European contracts to the NHL.

Even the German star Erich Kuhnhackel preferred playing in Germany -better pay than in the NHL.

Erich Kühnhackl - Wikipedia

This has been covered in numerous threads in the HOH.

 

[FerrisRox]

Your interpretation is somewhat flawed. Going back to the late 1940s NHL teams were interested in the great Czech, Soviet and Swedish players. Sven Tumba and Ulf Sterner did come over,Tumba on a 5 game pro tryout, Sterner on a contract,actually played a few O6 games for the Rangers.

Basic problem, contrary to your presentation, was that the Europeans could earn more in Europe.

Kent Nilsson and Hakan Loob returned to play in Europe, post 1989 a number of the Soviets preferred European contracts to the NHL.

Even the German star Erich Kuhnhackel preferred playing in Germany -better pay than in the NHL.

Erich Kühnhackl - Wikipedia

This has been covered in numerous threads in the HOH.

My interpretation of what?

I said those major breeding grounds were untapped for the NHL. Again, that's not an opinion it's a fact.

How is my interpretation wrong? I'm not interpreting anything. You're offering up a reason why Czech and Russian players weren't in the league... I didn't offer any reason why they weren't in the league, I just pointed out that they were absent.

 

[The Panther]

I already stated that there are more Europeans now than in the mid-80s. What I'm disputing is the "seismic shift" part, when taking into account a much larger League today.

Also, there's the issue of how many European countries' hockey programs were even developed enough to have made any significant contribution to the NHL in the early/mid-80s.

 

[Canadiens1958]

My interpretation of what?

I said those major breeding grounds were untapped for the NHL. Again, that's not an opinion it's a fact.

How is my interpretation wrong? I'm not interpreting anything. You're offering up a reason why Czech and Russian players weren't in the league... I didn't offer any reason why they weren't in the league, I just pointed out that they were absent.

So are women and other nationalities today without changing 2018 NHL player deployment.

Flawed as in incomplete,lacking substance. Europe was scouted as far back as the 1920s.

That they were absent does not change anything. Present day KHL has Canadian, American and other International players yet the overall league - KHL does not benefit, evidenced by the contraction the last few seasons. Just allows more run of the mill Russians to play a level of hockey with a better salary for a short time. Happy for them.

Look at Canada at the WHC in the 1980s. Participated but the players were not prepared for the roles that the different International game required.

The assumption that Russian or Czechs players would have been prepared for the deployment as required in the International game and as required in the NHL is the issue. Few can do both equally well. Ovechkin at the adult International level is not the player he is in the NHL. Scores less because his NHL game does not translate. As a result he is deployed differently.

 

[daver]

I don't think the opinion that Wayne and Mario would be less dominant vs. their peers in the current era is unreasonable but the opinion that they would not clearly set themselves apart from their peers and reach the same GOAT recognition would be.

 

[FerrisRox]

So are women and other nationalities today without changing 2018 NHL player deployment.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? Why even bring this up?

Flawed as in incomplete,lacking substance. Europe was scouted as far back as the 1920s.

Relevance?

That they were absent does not change anything. Present day KHL has Canadian, American and other International players yet the overall league - KHL does not benefit, evidenced by the contraction the last few seasons. Just allows more run of the mill Russians to play a level of hockey with a better salary for a short time. Happy for them.

I truly don't know what you think you are proving here or even what this is in response to. ???

Look at Canada at the WHC in the 1980s. Participated but the players were not prepared for the roles that the different International game required.

The assumption that Russian or Czechs players would have been prepared for the deployment as required in the International game and as required in the NHL is the issue. Few can do both equally well. Ovechkin at the adult International level is not the player he is in the NHL. Scores less because his NHL game does not translate. As a result he is deployed differently.

This is all just baffling. You think if the floodgates had opened and Russians and Czechs and Slovaks could freely join the NHL in the 1980's, they wouldn't have impacted the quality of the player pool because they would be "unprepared for the roles that the game required?"

Are you serious with this? How come that wasn't an issue when they actually did all come over and play? This is a ridiculous "interpretation."

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I think it was much more common for the top lines to face a checking line in the 80s. Today top lines usually match up against each other. In that respect top players were facing much less talented players.

 

[Canadiens1958]

This is all just baffling. You think if the floodgates had opened and Russians and Czechs and Slovaks could freely join the NHL in the 1980's, they wouldn't have impacted the quality of the player pool because they would be "unprepared for the roles that the game required?"

Are you serious with this? How come that wasn't an issue when they actually did all come over and play? This is a ridiculous "interpretation."

Concentrate. The issue is deployment.

Take the Green Unit when they first came over. How prepared were they?

Look at Sergei Makarov in Calgary who effectively replaced Hakan Loob:

https://www.hockey-reference.com/pl...points&c1comp=gt&threshhold=5&order_by=points

Hakan Loob Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Basically a wash, Makarov scoring one more point in one more game, while Loob, the previous season had 3 more goals, still a significant drop from Loob's 1987-88 season.

Krutov and Kasatonov were disappointments. Larionov and Fetisov took a few seasons to hit their stride.

Show where there was an actual impact. Given that Vancouver, a playoff team the year before did not make the playoffs. Calgary the SC Champs with Loob, were eliminated in the first round with Makarov while New Jersey a non-playoff the previous year was eliminated in the first round.

 

[Killion]

It seems like some have this notion that players like Gretzky and Lemieux beat up on inept/inferior competition the 1980s, but I can't see why opposing teams would have had poor players on the ice against these two or other star players on any sort of a frequent basis. In fact, I imagine they rarely or never would have faced poor competition (for the time anyway) unless being double-shifted.

It's impossible to look at QoC (quality of competition) stats from the 1980s - is there any credence to the notion that the top stars of that era benefited to any considerable extent from exploiting poor competition?

In a 21 team League, if anything, wouldn't the average NHL roster have been less diluted? Other than the fact that teams kept goons, was the skill level of the average player than any less than the skill level of the average player now?

These were players who came of age, grew up during that halcyon decade of the 70's. The Sponsorship Era had well & truly ended, the Draft finally taking full effect beginning in 1970, Junior teams cut loose from their one time benefactors resulting in a mad scramble for many to survive. Mini-Nhl-Business-Model. Winning absolutely everything as opposed to any real concentration on "player development" though ya, there were organizations that managed to combine both and be successful though they were more the exception to the rule than the norm.

Attrition right on down the line, the Jr.B leagues & teams, once the farm clubs of the Major Jr.A clubs scrambling as well, new leagues being formed, re-classified as Tier II Jr.A, eventually Provincial Jr.A... those teams once fed by elite AAA Midgets & Minor Midgets replaced with the Midget Draft. From elite AAA through Provincial & Major Junior these all stand alone businesses and in order to survive they had to, have to sell sponsorships & tickets and so on & so forth, having a winning record rather critical to doing so.

You had the creation of the WHA, Sandersons huge contract so Big Money hitting the game, free for all, players finally had some freedom, choices.... the WHA signing underage Juniors starting with Mark & Marty Howe from the Toronto Marlies... you had Ken The Rat Linesman challenging the NHL Draft age in a successful suit which lowered the NHL Draft age.... players not yet ready for prime-time & lacking the maturity in an awful lot of cases to be dealing with the brutal nature of the pro game, the lifestyle & the money but wanting it all & wanting it NOW rushed into service, going pro before they were ready, before they were finished products, tool boxes half empty, resulting in a generation of one dimensional players.

One of the many Poster Boy's of that generation being Rick Vaive. A one way player, 50 goal scorer & fighter, along with several others who were signed early & young, alumni of the infamous Birmingham Baby Bulls of the WHA. Slapshot Hockey. One Dimensional Mercenaries. Flooded the NHL in 1980 with Amalgamation, which when combined with the over-hasty Expansion beginning in 67/68 then seriously amp'd up through the 70's... the furnaces, the factories in Canada that had long produced the majority of NHL'rs was being over-taxed, over-worked, its product rushed into service incomplete. Missing parts, lacking maturity, polish. Its been said "the 60's was the We Generation, the 70's the Me Generation"... quite accurate, hockey, the players who played then who came of age & grew up then a reflection thereof.

So ya, there was a dearth, a lack of talent, complete units individually, collectively as "teams". The executive levels at the elite amateur & junior levels burdened with business issues, selling sponsorships, selling tickets. The costs to compete ever increasing. In Quebec, QMJHL, basketball scores. In Ontario & Western Canada, fight leagues. The CAHA & Hockey Canada in crisis mode throughout the decade, wringing its hands, gnashing their teeth over the state of the game at all levels, precipitated in part by the 72 Summit Series, the skill & grace exhibited by the Soviets in stark contrast to how the NHL & hockey in Canada was played a matter of deep concern & conscience.

That things had spiraled right out of control in Canada & with the pro game, a game that was forever changed in North America following the 72 Summit.... with the only real bright spots in N/A being the Sabers French Connection Line, Montreal Canadiens circa 76 on & the WHA's Hull~Hedberg~Nilsson line... thereafter, the arrival of Wayne Gretzky, Sathers approach to the game, wide open Firewagon Hockey....

... but absolutely top-bottom, the talent (while there but being "unfinished") being so thinly spread out simply was not there. Just not a lot of the Bob Gainey, Dave Keon types floating around. Arts & crafts, science of the game temporarily lost, forgotten, the costs to develop them too high. Sort of a "lost decade" in many respects. It wasnt until the 90's this all began to change, Steve Yzerman for eg; good example of that, a guy who did buy into Bowmans demands, concentrating on 2 way play, becoming the player he could be.

 

[Canadiens1958]

These were players who came of age, grew up during that halcyon decade of the 70's. The Sponsorship Era had well & truly ended, the Draft finally taking full effect beginning in 1970, Junior teams cut loose from their one time benefactors resulting in a mad scramble for many to survive. Mini-Nhl-Business-Model. Winning absolutely everything as opposed to any real concentration on "player development" though ya, there were organizations that managed to combine both and be successful though they were more the exception to the rule than the norm.

Attrition right on down the line, the Jr.B leagues & teams, once the farm clubs of the Major Jr.A clubs scrambling as well, new leagues being formed, re-classified as Tier II Jr.A, eventually Provincial Jr.A... those teams once fed by elite AAA Midgets & Minor Midgets replaced with the Midget Draft. From elite AAA through Provincial & Major Junior these all stand alone businesses and in order to survive they had to, have to sell sponsorships & tickets and so on & so forth, having a winning record rather critical to doing so.

You had the creation of the WHA, Sandersons huge contract so Big Money hitting the game, free for all, players finally had some freedom, choices.... the WHA signing underage Juniors starting with Mark & Marty Howe from the Toronto Marlies... you had Ken The Rat Linesman challenging the NHL Draft age in a successful suit which lowered the NHL Draft age.... players not yet ready for prime-time & lacking the maturity in an awful lot of cases to be dealing with the brutal nature of the pro game, the lifestyle & the money but wanting it all & wanting it NOW rushed into service, going pro before they were ready, before they were finished products, tool boxes half empty, resulting in a generation of one dimensional players.

One of the many Poster Boy's of that generation being Rick Vaive. A one way player, 50 goal scorer & fighter, along with several others who were signed early & young, alumni of the infamous Birmingham Baby Bulls of the WHA. Slapshot Hockey. One Dimensional Mercenaries. Flooded the NHL in 1980 with Amalgamation, which when combined with the over-hasty Expansion beginning in 67/68 then seriously amp'd up through the 70's... the furnaces, the factories in Canada that had long produced the majority of NHL'rs was being over-taxed, over-worked, its product rushed into service incomplete. Missing parts, lacking maturity, polish. Its been said "the 60's was the We Generation, the 70's the Me Generation"... quite accurate, hockey, the players who played then who came of age & grew up then a reflection thereof.

So ya, there was a dearth, a lack of talent, complete units individually, collectively as "teams". The executive levels at the elite amateur & junior levels burdened with business issues, selling sponsorships, selling tickets. The costs to compete ever increasing. In Quebec, QMJHL, basketball scores. In Ontario & Western Canada, fight leagues. The CAHA & Hockey Canada in crisis mode throughout the decade, wringing its hands, gnashing their teeth over the state of the game at all levels, precipitated in part by the 72 Summit Series, the skill & grace exhibited by the Soviets in stark contrast to how the NHL & hockey in Canada was played a matter of deep concern & conscience.

That things had spiraled right out of control in Canada & with the pro game, a game that was forever changed in North America following the 72 Summit.... with the only real bright spots in N/A being the Sabers French Connection Line, Montreal Canadiens circa 76 on & the WHA's Hull~Hedberg~Nilsson line... thereafter, the arrival of Wayne Gretzky, Sathers approach to the game, wide open Firewagon Hockey....

... but absolutely top-bottom, the talent (while there but being "unfinished") being so thinly spread out simply was not there. Just not a lot of the Bob Gainey, Dave Keon types floating around. Arts & crafts, science of the game temporarily lost, forgotten, the costs to develop them too high. Sort of a "lost decade" in many respects. It wasnt until the 90's this all began to change, Steve Yzerman for eg; good example of that, a guy who did buy into Bowmans demands, concentrating on 2 way play, becoming the player he could be.

Raw talent but rarely fully trained and prepared to integrate an NHL team. Very few with a full and perfected tool box. Same is true for International players.

Thrown into the NHL pool, sink or swim.

 

[Killion]

I think it was much more common for the top lines to face a checking line in the 80s. Today top lines usually match up against each other. In that respect top players were facing much less talented players.

I dont know if thats exactly accurate. 80's, you didnt have the broad scale deployment of Traps & System Hockey that followed en mass, the discipline that was demanded, required to the nth degree that it became & is today, micro-managed. 70's & 80's the game in-flux. Today, Full-Cycle game. Conditioning & year round training etc combined with the Short Shifts.... I mean these guys are just one dimensional thoroughbreds. Flat track racers. All out for 45 seconds & back to the bench.

The games being played, the canvas painted with an air gun hooked up to a high powered compressor whereas in the 80's they were still using brushes. Inconsistencies abounding. Erratic. Coaches, GM's, they get fired when things get erratic. Consciously, sucked out all the air out of the arena, screwed things down, wrapped up tighter & in more layers than a Nuns habit....

The good news is that steps are being taken at the Junior & developmental levels to actually "develop" players, fill their toolboxes, rather than what were seeing, one dimensional unpolished turds, about 85% of them automatons who were forced to watch if we wanna watch at all these days. US in particular making huge strides in producing talent.

Interesting blog here.... www.3rdlinegrind.com/category/nhl-rosters/

Current:

46.1% CDN
24.7% US
10% Swedish etc...

also lists average ages & so on...

 

[Staniowski]

There was a huge demographic change in the NHL at the very end of the '80s and into the early '90s.

In the 1970s, almost all players were Canadian. Through most of the 1980s, the large majority of the top players were still Canadians, with a nice sprinkling of good Europeans, as well as some Americans.

But at the end of the 1980s and through the first half of the 1990s, there was a massive influx of talent, probably the biggest in NHL history.

There are a few reasons for this:

1) Obviously the opening up of Eastern Europe allowed Russians, Czechs, Slovaks, Latvians, Lithuanians, etc. to come to the NHL.

2) For the first time, the U.S. was producing a large number of world-class players.

3) And, the U.S., Russia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Sweden, and Finland all produced a great generation of star players all at the same time.

The following non-Canadian players were all born between the years 1968 and 1973:

Brian Leetch; Peter Bondra; Sergei Fedorov; Alexander Mogilny; John LeClair; Teemu Selanne; Nicklas Lidstrom; Mike Modano; Jeremy Roenick; Tony Amonte; Alexei Zhamnov; Bill Guerin; Sergei Zubov; Mats Sundin; Pavel Bure; Robert Reichel; Bobby Holik; Petr Nedved; Martin Rucinsky; Jaromir Jagr; Keith Tkachuk; Martin Straka; Slava Kozlov; Ziggy Palffy; Mikael Renberg; Mikael Nylander; Peter Forsberg; Alexei Yashin; Markus Naslund; Jere Lehtinen

These are the talents that greatly changed the NHL in the '90s.


The # of Canadians among the top 50 scoring leaders:

'70-'71 - 49
'75-'76 - 50
'81-'82 - 45
'86-'87 -39
'92-'93 - 33
'98-'99 - 21
'07-'08 - 23
'16-'17 - 18

The NHL contained a lot more top-end talent in the '90s than it did in the '70s and '80s. Since Canada has continued to produce top players, also, we can say that, for example, the 5th or 10th or 25th or 50th top point producers in the late '90s were a lot better than the 5th or 10th or 25th or 50th top point producers in any season of the '70s or '80s. Etc.