The decision to keep the expiring contracts - is it going to backfire

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
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While I get that the point is that such a move could disrupt the room, I'd like to point out that players are not necessarily the best gauge of what the best move is for the franchise.

If we had moved them out, it should have been done in the summer though.


and that's where the argument should start.
I was fully prepared for them to trade those 3 i the summer.
heck. i was fully prepared to trade those 3 i November.

(why won't my keyboard type "n" is beyond me).

but if the argument is "they should have traded them at the deadline" that, in my opinion is a wrong one." the Leafs could be doing everything right, and still be down 2-0.

this lament that we trade one 2nd round pick and didn't do more to get more assets is rather tiresome, because it's assuming the Leafs won't do anything to try to recoup those losses, or that there isn't anything else in the plans.

regardless of how the season ends, i think did well with the hand they were dealt. I will counter they should have been damned more aggressive getting better defensemen and centres and not Plekanec.
 
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BlueBaron

Registered User
May 29, 2006
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Yup. All this panic and 20-20 hind sight is getting tiresome. I wish people would at least wait until the playoffs are over before beginning all this drama.
 

Dough72

Registered User
Sep 3, 2008
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unless we were getting a top 10 pick for him I really could are less. I think if this forum ran a team it would spend the next 10 years collecting picks and dreaming about the future. At which point it would gasp in shock, and recoil in horror, when it realized, that those precious draft picks, so lovingly cared for and nurtured,...........had become the very same "gud pros" they had learned to fear.
 

Legion34

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
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Best case would have been... based on market

Jvr for 1 and conditional 4
Bozak for 3
Komorov for 4th.

Not the end of the world. Late firsts aren’t What we should be gunning for
 

Maplebeasts

I See Demons!!!!!
Oct 26, 2014
20,706
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No it doesn't backfire. This team has all of the pieces and depth it needs to be a contender for the future long term regardless. You do not sell with a top 3 record in the conference and a top 6 record overall PERIOD.
 

Gabriel426

Registered User
Jun 30, 2015
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Trading Leo, Bozak and JVR in the summer or even the beginning of the season is something I understand but there is no way to trade them at TDL.
 

Tak7

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Nov 1, 2009
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Yup. All this panic and 20-20 hind sight is getting tiresome. I wish people would at least wait until the playoffs are over before beginning all this drama.

While I agree that its ridiculous to contemplate a 105 point team selling its UFAs, there's no hindsight here - all informed fans knew the Leafs werent winning the cup this year & werent close to a cup.
 

Boutette

Been there done that
Sep 28, 2017
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In the big picture, there's a certain downside to the rebuild getting off the ground so quickly after the Matthews draft.

The most obvious is the Leafs have taken themselves out the running for drafting a couple more times in the top 1-10 in 2017 and 2018. On paper, Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Rielly, Dermott, Dahlin, Liljegren for example would nice if we had gone the Buffalo/Arizona way of building.

The second is we aren't clearing out JVR, Bozak, Komarov and (maybe Gardiner next year) for extra assets, which probably is depriving the system of at least half a dozen pretty good prospects.

The third is we've been taking out small loans out against the future in really short term deals with Boyle and the horrible Plekanec deal, which robs us of a couple of seconds and some depth guys.

So the fact that the Leafs have gotten good quickly is generally fantastic, the downside is it has cost us a top 10 pick this year, and maybe up to an entire draft class worth of prospects and assets, which could have filled more center depth, an extra goalie and a few defensemen with upside.

Did not one here notice that at the trade deadline Las Vegas bought a *3rd* round draft pick off the Penguins for about 2..25 million dollars. Yes, in case you weren't paying attention, the Leafs can use their not insignificant cap space those departing players are gifting the team with this year to horse trade for picks if management so desires as an alternative to engaging in bidding wars for aging superstars from decades past like some other people are desperate for the team to overpay. There isn't just one way and one way only to add prospects, there are plenty of ways. Or am I the only person here who can see that?
 

bluumax

Registered User
Mar 7, 2008
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I was a strong sell proponent for JVR only, His value really was at an all time high and personally i only see this season as a kind of "stepping stone" in terms of where we are going and where we need to be to win.

This team isn't a cup contender right now, they're a playoff team, but not a contender. We have major areas of weakness that need to be addressed and ignoring the fact that keeping JVR was and is unlikely to yield a cup this season and could have been used to obtain a significant return was a mistake.

a 105pt team doesnt sell at the deadline. end of story

And thats how mediocrity is born. Im super proud of what this team has achieved, but thats still only 6th in the league. We've won nothing and if we settle for nothing now, we settle for nothing later.

Im not unhappy with the management group, they got us this far and i have faith in them, but my opinion is that we should have taken the assets for JVR even if it meant a 1st round exit. You build for the future.
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
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Let's tell Matthews, Nylander, Marner, and our young core who are supposed to lead us to the Cup one day that it's okay to have a loser mentality by trading away core pieces in a year we're looking to improve on last season with a deeper playoff run, or even a slim chance of winning it all...for more draft picks. Players get their bodies beat up and pounded in every game for 82 games for a chance to make the playoffs and to win it all. Wake up...it's not Draft Picks Tycoon we're playing here! Where the heck is all your pride?

I bet St. Louis could have used Stastny down the stretch run...and after he was traded, a player like Schenn was shocked and spoke up about his disappointment, and those who kept quiet were probably very disappointed...I wonder how their captain Pietrangelo felt about his GM giving up the season on the entire team over some draft picks...I'm sure they are so proud of their organization. :sarcasm:
Yes and poor Boston never recovered after trading Lucic in the summer. Imagine how much better they could be with a 6x8 Lucic instead of some of the young guys like McAvoy and Debrusk. Shameful. Poor Philly and their 2 1sts for moving Schenn in the summer. They blew their contender status and the guys quit.
The people who said move JVR in the summer also said it was too late come trade deadline. It's a moot point now. I'm sure the players will love the message of everyone leaving when it's UFA time as well.
 

JOKER 192

Blow it up
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Jun 14, 2010
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Bruins fan coming in peace ,

It's easy to draw conclusions now that they are down 2-0 but there is no way a tied for 6th OA team should be selling. Things likely won't work out for the Leafs but if they had traded JVR,Komorov and Bozak what would the message have been?

It's easy to say it as a mistake now and maybe it was but I don't think there is any management team that would have made those moves without a massive overpay coming back.
 
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TheBeastCoast

Registered User
Mar 23, 2011
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The funny thing about all the people saying we should have traded them is if we did trade them....and ended up in the same scenario we are right now guess what people would be saying? That Leafs management under cut the team and shouldn't have traded players away. It's hilarious because it absolutely would happen. The reality is there was absolutely zero chance any of them were getting traded in season. The only actual arguement here is whether or not they should have been traded in the off season.
 

Rob Brown

Way She Goes
Dec 17, 2009
16,722
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Yes because St. Louis is a young team two seasons removed from finishing last in the NHL :rolleyes:

You can try to spin it how you want so you don't have to admit to being wrong, but at the end of the day. We kept our rentals, and look where it has gotten us 2 games into the series. Pounded.

Someone better tell Matthews, Nylander, and Marner that in their second year in the NHL we mortgaged part of the future so that Superstar and HellasLeaf could get their much-needed playoff crack fix. How is the high so far? Enjoying watching Boston demolish us? I'm sure Boston would have scored 20 goals by now had we traded defensive stud JVR....

Lol give me a break. We gambled and it hasn't paid off yet, not sure why that's so hard for you lot to admit. There's still time for the lost potential assets to be worth it, but that possibility is sitting at a less than 15% probability (percentage of teams to come back after going down 2-0). Even then I still trade JVR for futures that can help us when our real cup window opens.
We gambled and it hasn't worked yet, but that doesn't mean they were ever going to do what you wanted them to do.
 

Walshy7

Registered User
Sep 18, 2016
25,326
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Toronto
Can we stop with this and step into the real world. The leafs weren't going to trade away veteran players in the midst of a franchise best season. Pull players out of that locker room and make disruptions.

That's for selling teams. The Leafs were not sellers this year. So we made the playoffs, lost our first two games, and the second guessing here is thick.

We can barely fit our talented youngsters into the starting lineup. Our farm system is one of the top in the NHL. Our core is all under 25. This is nonsense.

why cant this be looked at properly? trading JVR would have given us enough assets to upgrade the D possibly even McDonagh. Trading our UFA's to upgrade a position of dire need is not being a selling team
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
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Best case would have been... based on market

Jvr for 1 and conditional 4
Bozak for 3
Komorov for 4th.

Not the end of the world. Late firsts aren’t What we should be gunning for

Sounds more like worst case ... based on market.

No it doesn't backfire. This team has all of the pieces and depth it needs to be a contender for the future long term regardless. You do not sell with a top 3 record in the conference and a top 6 record overall PERIOD.

Sure, the optics would for that would be ugly. The off-season would have been fine though. And at one point in January we were 16th overall, then would have been fine too. Not sure why so many people are acting as if the TDL was the only time we could make trades.

Anyhow, season isn't over yet. JVR could win the Conn Smythe yet. Million to one shot sure but I think we should wait until we have a dead body before we start with the autopsy.

Really hope the Leafs kick ass tonight. Win tonight's game in style and this thread will take on an entirely different tone.
 

Spirit of 67

Registered User
Nov 25, 2016
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It would be awesome to trade at the deadline in years we don't win a Cup and buy in years we do. But I have news for some people. There is no guarantee you win the Cup. There will be other years we keep our pending UFA's and get bounced in the first round (or otherwise have playoff failure). Asset management is trading UFA's. It's getting the most value out of a player. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes it does.
This year we have a much better chance of beating Boston/going on a run with JVR than with a 27th OA pick.
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
12,818
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If they aren't likely to be kept, I'd rather see those guys sold off at the draft before their final year (i.e. explored selling 1 or more of JVR/Bozak/Komarov LAST draft), and then promote internally + add a UFA to fill the hole(s). Gardiner is in that position this upcoming summer, and his value is as high as it's been. We should definitely be exploring the trade market for him, rather than letting him walk for nothing a year from now.

This approach means you have time to line-up short-term fixes to the roster, because you have free agency to use, plus gives you assets to help you long-term (which subsequently improves your depth down the line when you trade other pending-UFAs).

This past trade deadline? Nah, at that point those guys were key pieces on the roster - hard to justify selling them in February/March when you can't really add adequate replacements easily. So I'm not mad they didn't sell these guys at the trade deadline, but I do think they missed an opportunity to address it last summer (granted - expansion draft may have affected that).
 
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Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
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It would be awesome to trade at the deadline in years we don't win a Cup and buy in years we do. But I have news for some people. There is no guarantee you win the Cup. There will be other years we keep our pending UFA's and get bounced in the first round (or otherwise have playoff failure). Asset management is trading UFA's. It's getting the most value out of a player. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Sometimes it does.
This year we have a much better chance of beating Boston/going on a run with JVR than with a 27th OA pick.

How much better? Show your work please, my estimate is that at best, with JVR instead of whoever his replacement would be our cup chances go up 0.5%.
 
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BoredBrandonPridham

Registered User
Aug 9, 2011
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JvR has been a non-factor so far. But he could also be critical to a turnaround in the series. Bozak has been pretty decent on the other hand. And Komarov look like he shouldn't be in the lineup.

Either way, it won't look good if we get tossed in the first round. But that was always a risk.

If you do trade them and get tossed in the first round it looks worse IMO.
 

Nineteen67

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I don’t think many of us expected the Leafs to win a round against either TB or Boston at the trade deadline anyway.
JvR and Bozak’s value to this team is the amt of $ that come off the cap next year.
 

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