The decision to keep the expiring contracts - is it going to backfire

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by MJ65, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. MJ65

    MJ65 Registered User

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    I hope not - but the chances are pretty slim

    I was one of few that were pretty vocal to trade - will see

    Any thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018 at 1:11 PM
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  2. Nithoniniel

    Nithoniniel Registered User

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    JvR has been a non-factor so far. But he could also be critical to a turnaround in the series. Bozak has been pretty decent on the other hand. And Komarov look like he shouldn't be in the lineup.

    Either way, it won't look good if we get tossed in the first round. But that was always a risk.
     
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  3. MJ65

    MJ65 Registered User

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    Not sure if it is worthy to take that kind of a risk even if you win 1 round - I am sad
     
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  4. HellasLEAF

    HellasLEAF Auston 20:16

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    Can we stop with this and step into the real world. The leafs weren't going to trade away veteran players in the midst of a franchise best season. Pull players out of that locker room and make disruptions.

    That's for selling teams. The Leafs were not sellers this year. So we made the playoffs, lost our first two games, and the second guessing here is thick.

    We can barely fit our talented youngsters into the starting lineup. Our farm system is one of the top in the NHL. Our core is all under 25. This is nonsense.
     
  5. MJ65

    MJ65 Registered User

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    Fair enough but a lot of us were not confident about the playoff success - and I respect your views and would like to keep it professional
     
  6. JustAShadow

    JustAShadow Registered User

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    What's the objective of every 100+ point NHL team after the regular schedule ends? It sure isn't to weaken the team as it enters the playoffs. This attitude that an NHL team should be operated like your fantasy keeper team is in a word infantile. And the ridiculous "I told you so" is the safest bet anyone could make with the odds of only 1 in 16.

    What I'd love see is this suggested in the Leafs' dressing room. Tell your favourite Leaf that you think the team should have traded his teammates for draft picks instead of going to battle in the playoffs with them.
     
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  7. Krazy

    Krazy Registered User

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    No body does this ever. We set 100 year old records. Tons of success. You don’t trade 3 roster players at the deadline.

    I agree that jvr could have went in the off-season but you don’t do that. That would be quitting on the team. How happy do you think blues players are right now?

    We picked 11 times in 2015 and have full picks in 2016, 2017 and 2018. We don’t even have contract spaces to sign the players we have.... we didn’t give up a first. We gave up a free 2nd and waiver fodder.

    We are overflowing with assets. I agree not giving up firsts for rentals but come on. You can’t just have a ton of picks and no players.
     
  8. Trapper

    Trapper Registered User

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    The asset management check always comes due. Many people just don't want to hear it so JVR walking is fine for them.
    To recap what a handful of posters (that I agree with) were saying:
    JVR should have been traded in the summer. Had we gotten another Kappy, we'd still be better off. If we'd gotten a 1st round pick and a 4th line C, we still be better poised for next year. Which then leads to the next thing.
    No way a 2nd round pick should ever have been dealt for Plekanec. Fail.
    We didn't need to trade Bozak, Komarov as they are not prime return pieces like a 30 goal scorer and a top 4 D in Gardiner. And you maintain your vet presence with Marleau,Bozak,Komarov,Hainsey,Polak.
    Gardiner should be moved in the summer.
    Keep building around Matthews, Nylander, Marner and hope players line Grundstrom, Johnsson give us what we need full time.
    In the now, better hope this team can find some life and make a series of it. Because the return on JVR and the waste of a 2nd are just gone. So we need to go as far as we can.
     
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  9. Nithoniniel

    Nithoniniel Registered User

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    While I get that the point is that such a move could disrupt the room, I'd like to point out that players are not necessarily the best gauge of what the best move is for the franchise.

    If we had moved them out, it should have been done in the summer though.
     
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  10. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    In the big picture, there's a certain downside to the rebuild getting off the ground so quickly after the Matthews draft.

    The most obvious is the Leafs have taken themselves out the running for drafting a couple more times in the top 1-10 in 2017 and 2018. On paper, Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Rielly, Dermott, Dahlin, Liljegren for example would nice if we had gone the Buffalo/Arizona way of building.

    The second is we aren't clearing out JVR, Bozak, Komarov and (maybe Gardiner next year) for extra assets, which probably is depriving the system of at least half a dozen pretty good prospects.

    The third is we've been taking out small loans out against the future in really short term deals with Boyle and the horrible Plekanec deal, which robs us of a couple of seconds and some depth guys.

    So the fact that the Leafs have gotten good quickly is generally fantastic, the downside is it has cost us a top 10 pick this year, and maybe up to an entire draft class worth of prospects and assets, which could have filled more center depth, an extra goalie and a few defensemen with upside.
     
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  11. SportsJunkie

    SportsJunkie Registered User

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    Hindsight 20/20.

    Personally I went back and forth on it on JVR and Bozak ( Komarov I was ready to move ). I think all 3 were shopped by the Leafs but asking price was not there.

    Who knows maybe they take a team discount friendly ( possibly very friendly! ) contract.
     
  12. SportsJunkie

    SportsJunkie Registered User

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    Highly doubt adding Plek, Boyle and keeping JVR, Bozak and Komarov make this team bottom 10...which is a good thing
     
  13. Superstar

    Superstar Registered User

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    What does that even mean? The purpose of rebuilding and building this team up from the ground is to improve and make the playoffs year after year to play for the Cup...we made the playoffs 2 years in a roll with this young team...a top 10 pick would mean we are still a crappy team! Unless you like to be perpetually crappy like Buffalo and Arizona, or Edmonton for the last 10 years (except last year, which looks like a fluke), I don't want to keep getting top 10 picks when we already have Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Kadri, Kapanen, Brown, Hyman, Rielly, Andy, Dermott, Lily, etc...gotta move on from the losing mentality of top 10 picks.
     
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  14. Willchel Marlynder

    Willchel Marlynder (philer bozel)

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    And look what happened. 2 games into the playoffs this team has been battered down 12-4. Congrats to you and the Leafs brass for being short sighted. I hope the potential quick sugar rush of playoff hockey was worth the second, and the potential JVR return.

    Boston has exposed our D. Zaitsev and Hainsey look terrible, Rielly looks like a rookie. Would have been nice to use those pieces from a JVR trade, add it to our second, and try to get some real top 4 help.

    People came yell about breaking records all they want. It's a nice cover so you don't have to admit how wrong you are. If we get bounced in the first round not trading those pieces is going to look like terrible asset management. A market like the Leafs just can't endure patience. Even guys like Babcock are speaking out of their rear when they say "pain is coming". Although maybe Babcock was right. Keeping our expiring contracts and getting destroyed by Boston is very painful to watch.




    Ofcourse if we somehow win the series well...... That's a whole nother story.
     
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  15. WTFMAN99

    WTFMAN99 https://hawkeyintangibles.blogspot.ca/

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    Shameless plug but I did touch on this back in early March

    The Leafs have a chance to redefine "own rental"

     
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  16. HellasLEAF

    HellasLEAF Auston 20:16

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    I'm not sure your comments are based in reality. Maybe this would happen in NHL 18 or something.
     
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  17. Buds17

    Buds17 Registered User

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    There figured to be a certain degree of risk/reward either way, and plenty of variables leading to a lot of guesswork.

    Keep or trade them and the team could do anything from go on a deep playoff run to bow out of the playoffs early, with them being factors, non-factors, missed significantly, or not really at all.

    The returns might have ended up being worthwhile if some/all were traded, but the returns wouldn't have likely been can't miss prospects or picks, and more a factor of good work on the part of the GM and/or scouts. There were also NTCs to consider in some cases that may, or may not have, limited or eliminated trade partners.
     
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  18. Willchel Marlynder

    Willchel Marlynder (philer bozel)

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    The reality I'm seeing is.

    1. JVR and Bozak are walking at the end of the season for nothing.
    2. We traded a second roud pick for a bad 4th line centre
    3. Boston has steam rolled us with little resistance.

    Are we in the same reality here? Maybe you're enjoying what you're seein right now. Perspective is everything after all.
     
  19. Superstar

    Superstar Registered User

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    Let's tell Matthews, Nylander, Marner, and our young core who are supposed to lead us to the Cup one day that it's okay to have a loser mentality by trading away core pieces in a year we're looking to improve on last season with a deeper playoff run, or even a slim chance of winning it all...for more draft picks. Players get their bodies beat up and pounded in every game for 82 games for a chance to make the playoffs and to win it all. Wake up...it's not Draft Picks Tycoon we're playing here! Where the heck is all your pride?

    I bet St. Louis could have used Stastny down the stretch run...and after he was traded, a player like Schenn was shocked and spoke up about his disappointment, and those who kept quiet were probably very disappointed...I wonder how their captain Pietrangelo felt about his GM giving up the season on the entire team over some draft picks...I'm sure they are so proud of their organization. :sarcasm:
     
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  20. Krazy

    Krazy Registered User

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    People should read Theo Fleury book. Calgary did this in the 80s. He wrote a whole section on it. 30 years later he is STILL mad about it.... good idea guys
     
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  21. HellasLEAF

    HellasLEAF Auston 20:16

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    Don't tell any of this to Marlynder, he is still fuming over the 4th rounder we should have snagged for 'Bozy'.
     
  22. biotk

    biotk Registered User

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    The Calgary Flames never did anything remotely close to what is being talked about during his tenure with the Flames in the 80s.
     
  23. Kiwi

    Kiwi Kiwi

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    Trading those guys mid season was never going to happen when we were in the process of putting together a 105 point season

    I would like to point out that last off-season was completely mismanaged and it didn't take a genius to know that we were making a rod for our own backs further down the line with how we decided to play this situation out at that time
     
  24. Willchel Marlynder

    Willchel Marlynder (philer bozel)

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    Yes because St. Louis is a young team two seasons removed from finishing last in the NHL :rolleyes:

    You can try to spin it how you want so you don't have to admit to being wrong, but at the end of the day. We kept our rentals, and look where it has gotten us 2 games into the series. Pounded.

    Someone better tell Matthews, Nylander, and Marner that in their second year in the NHL we mortgaged part of the future so that Superstar and HellasLeaf could get their much-needed playoff crack fix. How is the high so far? Enjoying watching Boston demolish us? I'm sure Boston would have scored 20 goals by now had we traded defensive stud JVR....

    Lol give me a break. We gambled and it hasn't paid off yet, not sure why that's so hard for you lot to admit. There's still time for the lost potential assets to be worth it, but that possibility is sitting at a less than 15% probability (percentage of teams to come back after going down 2-0). Even then I still trade JVR for futures that can help us when our real cup window opens.
     
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  25. Krazy

    Krazy Registered User

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    They sold off when the team wanted to compete. You think players care about the difference?
     

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