The Coyotes have been eliminated. Now what?

[cobra427]

Yeah, absolutely hoping the boss-men sees this. Trading Strome now means they would get bust-price or near bust-price for him. It would be absolutely stupid.

I know what a sunk cost is, and that you should ignore it.

But not in this case.

He has upside. The team trading for him wouldn't admit it, but they would partly do it based on that upside. Keep the upside here. He still might be a super player. If he won't be, the payment we get for him won't be anywhere near what a third overall should be worth anyway. Seing him blossom into a top player on another team would be a big negative psycological cost.

Very annoyed to see so many teams competing in being awful. The proxy of using last years standing for which teams deserves the highest picks are flawed when they lose on purpose. Really should remove the last two or three dozens of games from that formula.

If we trade Strome now, I think we would get a 20th or later 1st or a third line player. I doubt we could get a 3C for him unless the 3C was over 32 years old and past his prime. Agreed, Strome still has upside but not the upside somebody is willing to pay for since he has proven so far he isn't an NHL player. Top 10 picks are all in the NHL as regulars from his draft year.

The time to trade him was last summer if we were going to do it, that is where our cost got sunk now. I would rather risk the late 1st we could get for him now turning into a second round pick in a year, and hope he improves and makes an impact next year for us rather then somebody else.

 

[Heldig]

Regarding Strome, I think the plan might be to acquire a skilled vet to play alongside him...similar model to what Toronto did with Marner and Nylander with Bozak, Kadri, and Marleau. That is why I thought a player like Simmonds or Paccioretty could be good additions (if not unrealistic to trade for). More likely it will be lesser adds similar to Panik.

 

[Hogan20]

I don't know if this is even possible with his current injury situation but what about trying to kick the tires on Hanzal's availability?
Would Dallas be willing to move him @50% retained for something of any value (a 4-7th round pick and a C prospect?).
He allows Strome to start on the wing and get more comfotable with the speed and when he inevitably goes down with an injury, Strome can slide into the center position.
At $2,375,000 annual (and his base salary would be $2,500,000 in 2018-19 and $2,000,000 in 2019-20), would he be a reasonable 2C/3C to couple with Dvorak?

Keller - Stepan - Panik
Strome - Dvorak- Perlini
Domi - Hanzal - Fischer
Ex; Crouse

When Hanzal down;
Keller - Stepan - Panik
Domi - Strome - Perlini
Crouse - Dvorak - Fischer
Ex; one of Rinaldo, Hamilton, UFA

 

[zz]

I don't know if this is even possible with his current injury situation but what about trying to kick the tires on Hanzal's availability?
Would Dallas be willing to move him @50% retained for something of any value (a 4-7th round pick and a C prospect?).
He allows Strome to start on the wing and get more comfotable with the speed and when he inevitably goes down with an injury, Strome can slide into the center position.
At $2,375,000 annual (and his base salary would be $2,500,000 in 2018-19 and $2,000,000 in 2019-20), would he be a reasonable 2C/3C to couple with Dvorak?

Keller - Stepan - Panik
Strome - Dvorak- Perlini
Domi - Hanzal - Fischer
Ex; Crouse

When Hanzal down;
Keller - Stepan - Panik
Domi - Strome - Perlini
Crouse - Dvorak - Fischer
Ex; one of Rinaldo, Hamilton, UFA

Already missed 30 games, upcoming spinal fusion surgery with 7 months recovery time, will miss the first part of next season. No thanks.

 

[BOGO]

Can't compare trading the pick in potentially the greatest draft in terms of depth....ever!...to the draft last season.

2017 could end up being a sneaky good class, but I doubt it comes anywhere near 2003.

I am not saying it was a direct translation, but it reminds me a lot of that transaction. The Coyotes thought they needed to get a top center that did not end up being a top center for them and it cost them a quality draft pick. Very similar circumstances, let us just hope it is not very similar results. I know many of us were kicking ourselves for years on missing out on Carter when we got Langkow instead. Carter likely would not have turned into the player he is here, no one seems to, but still...

 

[lanky]

I'm with Jakey on the Stepan trade. You can't trade top ten picks during a rebuild. Full stop.

I might be alone on this second thought, but IMO Strome is ready for full time action next season. If he gets time with Merkley in this playoff run then he'll prove it. I actually think he's already proven he's ready. For next season he should be inked (not penciled) in on the Coyotes roster. Any dollars or assets spent acquiring another 2/3 C as Strome insurance is a straight up waste and would push Richardson into the press box.

 

[Heldig]

Richardson's line is a good checking line. They can play third line minutes if needed. I am ok if Strome starts with 4th line duty and earns more ice time and powerplay time.

 

[hbk]

I'm with Jakey on the Stepan trade. You can't trade top ten picks during a rebuild. Full stop.

I might be alone on this second thought, but IMO Strome is ready for full time action next season. If he gets time with Merkley in this playoff run then he'll prove it. I actually think he's already proven he's ready. For next season he should be inked (not penciled) in on the Coyotes roster. Any dollars or assets spent acquiring another 2/3 C as Strome insurance is a straight up waste and would push Richardson into the press box.

Would you have traded a top 10 pick n the 99 draft? I would have. 2002? Yep. 2012? Absolutely.

It all depends on the year.

 

[lanky]

99? 2002? You're stuck a couple decades in the past.

7 OA in 2012 would have given us a choice between Forsberg and Trouba. That's a pick that a rebuilding team should use.

 

[hbk]

99? 2002? You're stuck a couple decades in the past.

7 OA in 2012 would have given us a choice between Forsberg and Trouba. That's a pick that a rebuilding team should use.

I'm pointing out examples of below average drafts. All relevant. 2017 was not viewed in the same manner as the 2003 or 1979 drafts. Not all drafts are equal.

 

[lanky]

2017 was a good draft with a disappointing top 3. Necas or Vilardi would've helped the Coyotes more than Stepan.

 

[Jakey53]

I expect we literally don't have the assets to bring him here even in world where Toronto would actually trade him.

We did a similar thought experiment on Eichel a few months ago, and he's worth less than Matthews due to his contract, play, and injuries. And that's a team much more likely(but still incredibly unlikely) to re-think their rebuild than Toronto, who's rebuild is not even underway anymore it's done.

I think for Auston Matthews you're trading #1 overall (not the first, it must be a won lottery). AND Keller. And probably some more crap thrown in too. Stuff that would hurt to give up. You'd essentially be asking them to dismantle a young playoff team for the hell of it.

And Toronto STILL doesn't make the deal even in a world where they hate Matthews' face and want him gone. Why? They need centers. The stuff we have to offer doesn't actually help them become a better team.

And we'd be outbid.

You would have to add OEL to that package.

 

[hbk]

2017 was a good draft with a disappointing top 3. Necas or Vilardi would've helped the Coyotes more than Stepan.

How? Vilardi was injured first 3 months and Necas is in Czech. Both good prospects who project as 2nd liners. That's what Stepan is.

I realize the careers of those players available at 7 are not defined by this year but neither is the return we received. We have Stepan for another 3 years and Raanta likely beyond that when he signs his next contract. They are our 1C and 1G and they have played very well this year despite our record.

 

[Jakey53]

How? Vilardi was injured first 3 months and Necas is in Czech. Both good prospects who project as 2nd liners. That's what Stepan is.

Mittelstadt?

 

[hbk]

Mittelstadt?

Also projects as a 2C. Very good prospect.

I would have loved to have dealt 23 instead of 7 but that was the deal. I'm okay with it.

 

[SniperHF]

You would have to add OEL to that package.

They couldn't fit him extended in the cap. Or they could just barely which would further still gut their team.

 

[Jamieh]

They couldn't fit him extended in the cap. Or they could just barely which would further still gut their team.

I think they could if Matthews is leaving but the Leafs are not trading Matthews for that package.

 

[Canis Latrans]

2017 was a good draft with a disappointing top 3. Necas or Vilardi would've helped the Coyotes more than Stepan.

We got Stepan to help with developing our prospects who've moved on up to the NHL. Help wasn't coming from the free agent class, and a number of our prospects were on the cusp of being full-time NHLers. The deal really was to ensure our closer future players could ease into a system with a reliable center who could take the harder minutes and mentor, all at the cost of one high pick that won't see turn out for a few more years. It's avoiding what's happened to Edmonton.

Additionally, we got a starting goalie with good potential to be here a number of years. Also, look at it this way: the season Keller is happening would not have happened without Stepan. Those two are paired up more often than not. If anything the price paid was appropriate for both teams.

 

[Jakey53]

We got Stepan to help with developing our prospects who've moved on up to the NHL. Help wasn't coming from the free agent class, and a number of our prospects were on the cusp of being full-time NHLers. The deal really was to ensure our closer future players could ease into a system with a reliable center who could take the harder minutes and mentor, all at the cost of one high pick that won't see turn out for a few more years. It's avoiding what's happened to Edmonton.

Additionally, we got a starting goalie with good potential to be here a number of years. Also, look at it this way: the season Keller is happening would not have happened without Stepan. Those two are paired up more often than not. If anything the price paid was appropriate for both teams.

Good points and I see a case of argument from both sides.

 

[rt]

-I agree Strome’s value is in the tank.

-I agree we can’t just expect Strome to be a top center next year.

-I agree we can’t afford to pay the price for another Stepan again this summer.

‘18MIN2nd for Zack Smith

Smith can play LW or C. He’s a big bad man and can kill penalties. Plays a heavy, two way game with veteran savvy. He’s good on face offs and has some goal scoring history in this league. He’s overpaid and likely a guy who could be had for a pick. We can keep our 1st and Strome. We can keep a single forward spot open for Strome/Crouse/Merkley to fight for:

Perlini-Stepan-Keller
Domi-Dvorak-Fischer
Panik+Z.Smith+Rookie
Nook-Richardson-Cousins
Rinaldo

 

[SniperHF]

‘18MIN2nd for Zack Smith

Seems like a good rebound candidate. Shooting a career low percentage besides the lockout year. Ottawa fans really seem to dislike him though At least that's what I gathered with a quick search.

Maybe he could be had for less than the 2nd? He does make 3.25m for production worse than or about the same as Rieder's. Maybe him being a C makes him worth the extra million but I'm not sure it puts his value up all the way at a 2nd.

 

[Lilhoody]

Realistically, is there even a chance of swinging a large trade for Matthews?

I know that it is extremely unlikely to occur, yet I also think we need someone who has some sort of depth to Arizona. Doan had it being tenured here for so long, but there is something about having the value of a player that has roots here.

If Domi is truly a player that we are looking to give a fresh start, would Strome, Domi, and the 2018 1st rounder be in the ballpark to get Matthews? We could take back a salary dump since Domi will be an RFA. (Horton?)

I would have no problem going into next year with center depth of:

Matthews
Stepan
Dvorak
Richardson

Left wing could be interesting, but I like what we have with Perlini, Keller, and Martinook (need to pick up a 3rd line LW) and a right side with Fischer, Panik, and Archibald.

The question would be how much would need to be sent back to Toronto to get Matthews. Slim chance of anything like this happening, but if this is truly still a measure of rebuilding next year, maybe we damage the team shirt term to get Matthews back here long term and make him the future ambassador for the team.

I'd throw in OEL and subtract something.

 

[Lilhoody]

No go on

I don't know if this is even possible with his current injury situation but what about trying to kick the tires on Hanzal's availability?
Would Dallas be willing to move him @50% retained for something of any value (a 4-7th round pick and a C prospect?).

Hanzal Schmanzal. Taking on his potential salary, after he is unable to play , would be opportunistic. HAnzal contract plus Faksa and a pick?

 

[teddyli]

The value of Stepan is nowhere near the value of the No.7 pick, even if that rookie ends up a 2C like Stepan. Because Stepan carries a big cap hit but rookies don't. But.... if Raanta resigns with good price, and Stepan is a good leader in the locker room, I'm okay with that trade.

 

[Name Nameless]

The value of Stepan is nowhere near the value of the No.7 pick, even if that rookie ends up a 2C like Stepan. Because Stepan carries a big cap hit but rookies don't. But.... if Raanta resigns with good price, and Stepan is a good leader in the locker room, I'm okay with that trade.

What we don't know is how much Stepan growing into the team has contributed in making the Yotes grow into what they are now. A team who would have made the playoffs if the season had started at Christmas.

I'll go out on a limb and say there is a connection. I know the injuries on key defencemen and Raanta most likely is the most obvious explanation, but I go out on a limb and say Stepan may have contributed massively in changing the whole team.

And notice what happened with NYR without Stepan. They fell apart.