OT: The Chevy GM Poll

[KingBogo]

86% of voters feel they have some to serious concerns about Chevy as our GM and how's he's managing the team. Honestly, I'm not sure how someone could vote no concerns after floundering for six years with zero real progress or improvement in results.

But in all fairness it is not really a very good poll question to differentiate opinion. If we had the same poll question on Laine I'd vote the same way. Some concerns. Not that I don't think he isn't a great player and happy to have him, but there are lingering concerns around his concussion.

In Chevy's case I really like the young core of players he drafted and acquired, but my main concern is can he transition that young core to the next level. IMO he needs to give them a chance with better coaching and better goaltending, along with an upgrade on defense.

I am also a little curious about the timeline. The organization seems to be more then willing to bounce along the bottom one more season. Maybe hoping to land into another top center for the young core. Maybe another young D-man? Ideally both.

 

[surixon]

I have an issue with it. You can see the difference in Molson and Vinik in how they respond, explaining how they check in once a week, let him run it. Obviously with major trades they would be in the loop, goes without saying. If the owner is over the shoulder, working on everything, it completely undermines the GM in every way. Micro managing at that level is a disaster.

The difference is that Chipman is heavily involved in the day to day operations of TNSE. Along with being a joint owner it's his place of employment. He's essentially the CEO of TNSE whereas in the case of the other two their main source of employment is outside their sports franchises. Do you really think in most business structures it's odd for the president or CEO to have regular communication with the rest of his/her executive teams and to be involved in setting the strategic directions?

I have seen no indications that Chipman hasn't given Chevy the autonomy to properly do his job.

 

[Zippity]

Knowing the jets..they will swap assistant coaches with the moose.
Maybe Heisengers son will get into the big leagues soon

 

[Peggy]

It was a year of development. I was not expecting Chevy to make major moves to the line-up. Part of this year was a "see what you got", like our goaltenders. The Myers injury duration was unexpected, exposing the weak defensive depth we have.

Making moves with an expansion draft coming up and us not really expecting to do too much this year in terms of playoffs doesn't make sense to me. Chevy largely sitting on his hands was the right thing to do (again).

But I do have more expectations of Chevy this offseason after the expansion draft. Some changes need to be made.

It's a year of development but we look worse now
Usually when you're developing you get better(?)

 

[robertocarlos]

Guys. His name is Thomson as in Thomson / Reuters.

 

[robertocarlos]

I bet Chipman micro-manages the Jets.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I bet Chipman micro-manages the Jets.

I bet the pope is Catholic

 

[Hunter368]

I bet Chipman micro-manages the Jets.

I couldn't care less who manages the team, chevy or chipman or chipman's wife....as long as they are doing a good job.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I couldn't care less who manages the team, chevy or chipman or chipman's wife....as long as they are doing a good job.

Micro Chip new nickname ??
Can we make a poll ?
I vote yes

 

[Crocket]

Literally none of us know how involved Chipman is in the Jets' hockey operations.

Well the video I linked was telling, so we know to a degree.

 

[Evil Little]

Knowing the jets..they will swap assistant coaches with the moose.
Maybe Heisengers son will get into the big leagues soon

And what kind of coach is Heisinger's son?

(Here's a hint: he's ****ing not. Enough with the ******** narratives.)

Well the video I linked was telling, so we know to a degree.

'The more expensive/long term the contract, the more likely we are to talk about it first."

Good thing we've got that on the public record. Now future generations will be able to micromanage their own hockey teams.

You know nothing about his involvement, nor how it compares to the rest of the league.

Other than Vinik who talks to his GM less frequently.

 

[robertocarlos]

"If it's less than $1.5million, don't phone me."?

 

[Sperss1997]

If Chevy doesnt act on the goalie situation and does whatever needs to be done to get a decent goalie, then I am having serious concerns about him.

If he acts then I have none. If Chevy has been afraid to expose Hellebuyck in the expansion draft and would like to get Pav out of the books before he signs a new goalie, then I can understand it. But next season is a do or die season for management as I see it

 

[surixon]

And what kind of coach is Heisinger's son?

(Here's a hint: he's ****ing not. Enough with the ******** narratives.)



'The more expensive/long term the contract, the more likely we are to talk about it first."

Good thing we've got that on the public record. Now future generations will be able to micromanage their own hockey teams.

You know nothing about his involvement, nor how it compares to the rest of the league.

Other than Vinik who talks to his GM less frequently.

Yeah Shame on Chipman for running TNSE like most businesses.

I'm sure in most businesses there are differen threshold values for different management levels. If you want to do something that exceeds your $ threshold you need to go to the next level up and provide justification to get approval.

All we can glean from that interview is that the Jets have a contract threshold level that requires Chapman's stamp of approval. That isn't out of the norm in business.

 

[CaptainChef]

But in all fairness it is not really a very good poll question to differentiate opinion. If we had the same poll question on Laine I'd vote the same way. Some concerns. Not that I don't think he isn't a great player and happy to have him, but there are lingering concerns around his concussion.
.

Not true. The sheer number of serious concerns (33%) vs no concern (13%) says there are a probably a lot of fence-sitters between some & serious. If we did a similar poll with Laine, I doubt you get any serious concerns, and the majority would be no concern.

Also keep in mind that the original Maurice poll about a month ago probably broke down similar to this one -- in fact I think there were a lot more "no concerns" on it. Things can change rapidly. If we keep losing, if the booing at MTS gets progressively louder, and still Chevy sits on the sidelines, his disapproval rating will skyrocket rapidly.

 

[Festinator]

Chevy has been at the helm for six seasons, the Jets have had one playoff appearance where they were blown out 4 straight. Both the Jets and Moose are almost at the bottom of the standings in their respective leagues!

So where exactly is Chevy's success, Chevy has made the obvious picks with his first round selections that anyone on this board could have made is that some great feat? You do get in PRO sports it's all about winning right?!?

Anyone who thinks Chevy is even remotely close to good GM is sadly mistaken, in a lot of other NHL markets he would have been fired already!

I see you're one of the fans who doesn't understand how Draft and Develop models work.

Everyone needs to go back and see what the Blackhawks were like before they became a powerhouse. Draft and develop models take time, and it's so obviously worked out for Chicago. Would anyone like to take a guess as to which NHL teams management Chevy was working with before coming on with the jets? He knows what he needs, he knows the development years are over, he knows the fans arent happy. I'm confident he'll pull the trigger on something this offseason.

He started with nothing and has built the beginning of something special.

 

[sipowicz]

I see you're one of the fans who doesn't understand how Draft and Develop models work.

Everyone needs to go back and see what the Blackhawks were like before they became a powerhouse. Draft and develop models take time, and it's so obviously worked out for Chicago. Would anyone like to take a guess as to which NHL teams management Chevy was working with before coming on with the jets? He knows what he needs, he knows the development years are over, he knows the fans arent happy. I'm confident he'll pull the trigger on something this offseason.

He started with nothing and has built the beginning of something special.

I see you're one of those fans who never heard 29 other GM's and organizations say that they are also building through the draft.

Draft and develop is only a part of building a team, something that Chevy hasn't fully grasped yet.

One short playoff appearance in six seasons and you're happy with Chevy's so-called work?

Six seasons in and you're team is 3rd last in the NHL! Your AHL team is 3rd last. Chevy is supposedly building a talent pool, where's the proof?

 

[cbcwpg]

Six seasons in and you're team is 3rd last in the NHL! Your AHL team is 3rd last. Chevy is supposedly building a talent pool, where's the proof?

This is actually a very telling / concerning issue. OK, it's one thing if the NHL team is bad, but if you could look to the AHL and see a really good farm team, at least then you would have more hope that there is some potential to win when those players advance to the NHL. But our farm team also is bad. Maybe we have some good individual players on the Moose and just a bad team, but you do have to wonder where the future Jets are coming from.

Nothing wrong with draft and develop, but I'm concerned that the Jets D+D plan is to be like the Oilers and just luck into a generational talent.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

To sort of pick up on KingBogo's point, I agree the poll answers are somewhat limited. If the Jets suck next year and Chevy got fired, I would still respect his work building this talent pool, but also probably happy we were bringing in someone more proactive (assuming Chevy didn't make the moves many of us agree are now necessary).

In that case, my book on Chevy would read good builder, bad finisher.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Stealing the content of a tweet:

Man the Jets Roster sucks
No way, these players are awesome.
So it's bad coaching then?
No way, Maurice is doing the best he can with what he's got.
So we should question the GM?
Chevy is doing great!

Oh.

 

[surixon]

This is actually a very telling / concerning issue. OK, it's one thing if the NHL team is bad, but if you could look to the AHL and see a really good farm team, at least then you would have more hope that there is some potential to win when those players advance to the NHL. But our farm team also is bad. Maybe we have some good individual players on the Moose and just a bad team, but you do have to wonder where the future Jets are coming from.

Nothing wrong with draft and develop, but I'm concerned that the Jets D+D plan is to be like the Oilers and just luck into a generational talent.

Well if our young kids where not meeting expectations I would share those concerns but to date all our high picks except for maybe Stanley are meeting or exceeding their draft slot:

Exceeding:
Trouba
Scheifele
Ehlers

Meeting
Morrissey
Connor
Roslovic

We also have 4 none 1st round picks in the NHL:

Lowry third rounder quality 3C
Copp 4th roubder quality depth player
Helle 5th rounder
Petan 2nd rounder

So I think we are doing just fine development wise. Even in the gong show Moose. Connor and Roslovic lead in ppg with Connor heating up lately. 9 points in his last 10 games I believe.

 

[ps241]

I see you're one of the fans who doesn't understand how Draft and Develop models work.

Everyone needs to go back and see what the Blackhawks were like before they became a powerhouse. Draft and develop models take time, and it's so obviously worked out for Chicago. Would anyone like to take a guess as to which NHL teams management Chevy was working with before coming on with the jets? He knows what he needs, he knows the development years are over, he knows the fans arent happy. I'm confident he'll pull the trigger on something this offseason.

He started with nothing and has built the beginning of something special.

I took up your offer and went back look at what Chicago was like before they became a powerhouse. Chicago's draft and development model looked nothing and I mean nothing like ours. Back in 2000 when Chicago made their move and committed to build things up there were 9 rounds in the draft as opposed to 7 now.

So this is how their PLAN looked:

Blackhawks

2000 9 rounds 15 draft picks
2001 9 rounds 13 draft picks
2002 9 rounds 9 draft picks
2003 9 rounds 10 draft picks
2004 9 rounds 17 draft picks amazed
2005 "7" rounds 12 draft picks

Thus ending stage where they accumulated a high quantity of picks!!! In 52 rounds of drafting they added 76 assets. In six drafts they added 24 extra prospects for an average of 4 extra picks each draft.

2006 Toews (3rd overall)
2007 Kane (1st overall)

Thus ending the quality stage where they bottomed out and picked really high and added the rookie talent.


Now contrast that plan to TNSE so far in six and soon to be seven drafts

Jets

2011 7 rounds 7 draft picks
2012 7 rounds 6 draft picks
2013 7 rounds 10 draft picks (OMG )
2014 7 rounds 7 draft picks
2015 7 rounds 8 draft picks
2016 7 rounds 6 draft picks (but we did win that lottery)


So TNSE draft and develop in name only have had 42 draft choices allotted to them and drafted.....wait for it.....drum roll.......44 assets. So far our big plan to draft and develop has yielded us 2 extra picks in 6 draft years.


Now we have some nice picks but why have we not been committed to the draft and develop? We have all heard how we have more scouts and they have made some good picks but I have to ask myself, if this is an organizational priority and strength doesn't it make sense to play to it and add at least 2 or 3 extra choices per draft?


Its the difference between talk and action. Between a plan and commitment vs empty words. Anyone can say they are a draft and develop team but if you get 7 choices each spring and pick 7 times then you are just fooling the fans or even worse themselves IMHO of course.

 

[Whileee]

I took up your offer and went back look at what Chicago was like before they became a powerhouse. Chicago's draft and development model looked nothing and I mean nothing like ours. Back in 2000 when Chicago made their move and committed to build things up there were 9 rounds in the draft as opposed to 7 now.

So this is how their PLAN looked:

Blackhawks

2000 9 rounds 15 draft picks
2001 9 rounds 13 draft picks
2002 9 rounds 9 draft picks
2003 9 rounds 10 draft picks
2004 9 rounds 17 draft picks amazed
2005 "7" rounds 12 draft picks

Thus ending stage where they accumulated a high quantity of picks!!! In 52 rounds of drafting they added 76 assets. In six drafts they added 24 extra prospects for an average of 4 extra picks each draft.

2006 Toews (3rd overall)
2007 Kane (1st overall)

Thus ending the quality stage where they bottomed out and picked really high and added the rookie talent.


Now contrast that plan to TNSE so far in six and soon to be seven drafts

Jets

2011 7 rounds 7 draft picks
2012 7 rounds 6 draft picks
2013 7 rounds 10 draft picks (OMG )
2014 7 rounds 7 draft picks
2015 7 rounds 8 draft picks
2016 7 rounds 6 draft picks (but we did win that lottery)


So TNSE draft and develop in name only have had 42 draft choices allotted to them and drafted.....wait for it.....drum roll.......44 assets. So far our big plan to draft and develop has yielded us 2 extra picks in 6 draft years.


Now we have some nice picks but why have we not been committed to the draft and develop? We have all heard how we have more scouts and they have made some good picks but I have to ask myself, if this is an organizational priority and strength doesn't it make sense to play to it and add at least 2 or 3 extra choices per draft?


Its the difference between talk and action. Between a plan and commitment vs empty words. Anyone can say they are a draft and develop team but if you get 7 choices each spring and pick 7 times then you are just fooling the fans or even worse themselves IMHO of course.

Fully agree that the Jets should have loaded up with more picks.

However, I think you also need to look at the level of picks. I've previously shown that the total value of picks acquired by the Jets has been substantial (1st and 2nd round). Also, I think it would be reasonable to add Armia, Dano and Lemieux to the list of acquisitions. I am quite sure that the Jets could have gotten multiple picks instead of them, but instead preferred to acquire prospects that they had high regard for.

In any case, I think that although the Jets' prospect pipeline is lopsided towards forwards, they have a pretty deep and talented group of prospects and young players. They need to nail a top-4 D and a goalie, and their roster will be in quite good shape. Maybe Hellebuyck can still be the goalie, but they need more quality on D.

 

[JustGivingEr]

I took up your offer and went back look at what Chicago was like before they became a powerhouse. Chicago's draft and development model looked nothing and I mean nothing like ours. Back in 2000 when Chicago made their move and committed to build things up there were 9 rounds in the draft as opposed to 7 now.

So this is how their PLAN looked:

Blackhawks

2000 9 rounds 15 draft picks
2001 9 rounds 13 draft picks
2002 9 rounds 9 draft picks
2003 9 rounds 10 draft picks
2004 9 rounds 17 draft picks amazed
2005 "7" rounds 12 draft picks

Thus ending stage where they accumulated a high quantity of picks!!! In 52 rounds of drafting they added 76 assets. In six drafts they added 24 extra prospects for an average of 4 extra picks each draft.

2006 Toews (3rd overall)
2007 Kane (1st overall)

Thus ending the quality stage where they bottomed out and picked really high and added the rookie talent.


Now contrast that plan to TNSE so far in six and soon to be seven drafts

Jets

2011 7 rounds 7 draft picks
2012 7 rounds 6 draft picks
2013 7 rounds 10 draft picks (OMG )
2014 7 rounds 7 draft picks
2015 7 rounds 8 draft picks
2016 7 rounds 6 draft picks (but we did win that lottery)


So TNSE draft and develop in name only have had 42 draft choices allotted to them and drafted.....wait for it.....drum roll.......44 assets. So far our big plan to draft and develop has yielded us 2 extra picks in 6 draft years.


Now we have some nice picks but why have we not been committed to the draft and develop? We have all heard how we have more scouts and they have made some good picks but I have to ask myself, if this is an organizational priority and strength doesn't it make sense to play to it and add at least 2 or 3 extra choices per draft?


Its the difference between talk and action. Between a plan and commitment vs empty words. Anyone can say they are a draft and develop team but if you get 7 choices each spring and pick 7 times then you are just fooling the fans or even worse themselves IMHO of course.

Great post.

People also seem to forget that Chicago got a 1st and 3rd pick (we lucked out and have a 2nd) and that the Hawks had four coaches during their rebuild before they landed Quenneville (and consequently made it to the conference finals in his first year). And that Chicago had three different GMs before Stan Bowman in 2009 (won the cup in his first year as GM).

So pretty much, having the same GM, and keeping the same coach during our rebuild (not to mention the points above), shows that our rebuild is completely different from Chicago's.

 

[surixon]

I took up your offer and went back look at what Chicago was like before they became a powerhouse. Chicago's draft and development model looked nothing and I mean nothing like ours. Back in 2000 when Chicago made their move and committed to build things up there were 9 rounds in the draft as opposed to 7 now.

So this is how their PLAN looked:

Blackhawks

2000 9 rounds 15 draft picks
2001 9 rounds 13 draft picks
2002 9 rounds 9 draft picks
2003 9 rounds 10 draft picks
2004 9 rounds 17 draft picks amazed
2005 "7" rounds 12 draft picks

Thus ending stage where they accumulated a high quantity of picks!!! In 52 rounds of drafting they added 76 assets. In six drafts they added 24 extra prospects for an average of 4 extra picks each draft.

2006 Toews (3rd overall)
2007 Kane (1st overall)

Thus ending the quality stage where they bottomed out and picked really high and added the rookie talent.


Now contrast that plan to TNSE so far in six and soon to be seven drafts

Jets

2011 7 rounds 7 draft picks
2012 7 rounds 6 draft picks
2013 7 rounds 10 draft picks (OMG )
2014 7 rounds 7 draft picks
2015 7 rounds 8 draft picks
2016 7 rounds 6 draft picks (but we did win that lottery)


So TNSE draft and develop in name only have had 42 draft choices allotted to them and drafted.....wait for it.....drum roll.......44 assets. So far our big plan to draft and develop has yielded us 2 extra picks in 6 draft years.


Now we have some nice picks but why have we not been committed to the draft and develop? We have all heard how we have more scouts and they have made some good picks but I have to ask myself, if this is an organizational priority and strength doesn't it make sense to play to it and add at least 2 or 3 extra choices per draft?


Its the difference between talk and action. Between a plan and commitment vs empty words. Anyone can say they are a draft and develop team but if you get 7 choices each spring and pick 7 times then you are just fooling the fans or even worse themselves IMHO of course.

Ahh yes the good old quantity over quality argument using > 200 games played:

2000 - Came out with zero NHL players. Brilliant use of assets by them here.

2001 - Came out with 2 NHL players a middle of the road 2nd line player and an average starting goalie.

2002 - 3 NHL players. Keith being a stud but the other two being ok players.

2003 - 4 players with Crawford, Seabrook and Buff turning into impact players.

2004 - 4 players including Barker who busted. Two decent players and one depth piece.

2005 - 2 players. Skille massive disappointment for a top 10 pick and Haljmarson who saved that draft.

Despite acquiring all those picks they didn't exactly make the best use of their draft selections especially in the first round other than 2003.

There best 2 drafts where funny enough the ones they had the least amount of picks in.