CFL: The CFL thread - Part IV

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Holden Caulfield

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Feb 15, 2006
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No new news about Halifax getting a CFL team? Expansion to an Eastern market would make sense to even up the # of teams in the league.

There was a minor update a few days ago, but nothing much to add. There's an ownership group working closely with the CFL. They are currently working with the city and province for a venue. It sounds like the CFL has vetted the ownership and basically the last remaining hurdle is getting a stadium built. Once news of that starting up comes out I imagine the expansion team will be announced in short order after that.
 
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Holden Caulfield

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Another high profile former NFLer bites the dust. Josh Freeman last just one week at Als camp before being released. He then promptly retires upon being released. Not surprising in the least.
 

Blitzkrug

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Sep 17, 2013
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The fact Montreal had some form of hope that he would pan out is hilarious. Dude had one good NFL season and then was complete garbage.

He also has the dubious honor of starting in what was the ugliest game in the history of Monday Night Football. Week 7 against the Giants in 2013.
 

hoglund

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Dec 8, 2013
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That was a really long post so I know it's tough but look at where I mention money in that post. Do you see it? Cause I sure don't.

Durant is a **** because he failed to inform the team first (the team would be equally to blame if announced cutting a player to the media before telling the player) and because he waited until the last moment so Bombers had no chance to replace him.
I heard that he's making 454,000 + incentives for 1 year.
 

Holden Caulfield

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Football is back! It's just preseason between two teams I don't care about, but I'm watching anyways. Hell even checked out some of practice today for the Bombers. Can't wait for the season to get going next Friday in Winnipeg!
 

Mightygoose

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Nov 5, 2012
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Johnny Manziel enters the game and completes first 3 passes.

Ti-Cats overall...more turnovers than points scored in the first half....ouch!
 
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robertmac43

Forever 43!
Mar 31, 2015
23,096
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Tough way to start the year for the Cats so far. I know its preseason, but this team is reminding me of the one that showed up fort he fist 8 games of last year
 

BigFatCat999

First Fubu and now Pred303. !@#$! you cancer
Apr 23, 2007
18,816
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OK, June Jones is the HC in Hamilton and Jerry Glanville is the DC....

1) I'm having 90's flashbacks
B) Shouldn't it be the other way around?
III) Glanville is STILL alive?????
Four) Did Jerry leave tickets for Elvis?
 

Kyle McMahon

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May 10, 2006
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Eskimos are already approaching 50,000 tickets sold for the Grey Cup, 12 hours after they went on sale to the public. No word on how many are being given away free at area pizza joints...
 

Blitzkrug

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Sep 17, 2013
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If Masoli keeps playing as awful as he did in preseason game 1, expect the cries for Manziel to get louder, quicker.
 

Holden Caulfield

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CFL talking about capping personnel salaries (GM, coaching, scouting). This is beyond stupid idea to me. A salary cap on players makes sense, but limiting what teams can do off the field is dumb. The only result of this will be teams like Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, Edmonton take home more profit while losing the advantage their finances give them off the field. It's pandering to the weaker teams, and will hurt the CFL overall as less unknown guys who could become stars will be discovered. Not too mention that teams will be forced to keep terrible coaches for cap reasons.
 
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Kyle McMahon

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CFL talking about capping personnel salaries (GM, coaching, scouting). This is beyond stupid idea to me. A salary cap on players makes sense, but limiting what teams can do off the field is dumb. The only result of this will be teams like Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, Edmonton take home more profit while losing the advantage their finances give them off the field. It's pandering to the weaker teams, and will hurt the CFL overall as less unknown guys who could become stars will be discovered. Not too mention that teams will be forced to keep terrible coaches for cap reasons.

Yup. This is nothing more than an attempt at loosening the West Division's stranglehold on the East. Simple economics is that they have extra cash to spend on recruitment and coaching because of all the extra butts in the seats in Edmonton, Sask, Winnipeg, and Calgary.
 

Hammer9001

Registered User
Apr 1, 2015
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Hamilton
People love to hate Johnny Manziel.
Who knows what's said behind close doors?
Why would anyone care about his ultimate goal of returning to the NFL if he performs well in the CFL? Manziel hasn't hid his agenda from anyone. Most CFL players have NFL aspirations anyway.

What is Hamilton losing by signing Manziel?

He hasn't even played a snap and your already condemning him.

Curtis Martin is a Hall of Famer and he admitted he didn't really love the game of football. I say Johnny will be motivated to do well and be dedicated to understanding the game since this could be his last chance. Sometimes you don't know what you got til its gone.
But to say, "How many guys out of big schools with so much hype do well up North?" Is utterly ridiculous.
Such a straw man argument.
How many players fail in the CFL in general?
How many highly touted Canadian prospects flame out in the league? How many CF L first rd picks make an impact?
How many players regardless of where they are from get cut from a CFL team?
How many major college QBs are gonna play in the CFL when the NFL is drafting and paying them big money in the first place?
I guess the CFL doesn't get its share of busts?
You may not like the guy but he has talent and deserves a chance. You may not love the Johnny M. and Ricky Williams of the world I get it but they deserve a chance.

Id love to see a list of big school players with major hype like Johnny who have tried out for the CFL.
Take into consideration he plays the most important position on the field.

Several reasons not to go with him.

First off, the Tiger-Cats are still reeling from a terrible attempting to sign Art Briles, and then double downing of the attempt. A man embroiled in the sexual assault scandal at Baylor. It was a repulsive signing attempt that was thankfully stopped, although seemingly because the league office was about to step in. So then to not just hire, but go out of your way to seek out a QB with previous drinking and domestic violence issues. The optics don't look good if you are trying to brand yourself as the family friendly entertainment option and use him as the face of your franchise and furthering that controversy.

Second, is the issue of he needs to be good, but not great for the team to benefit in the long term, which isn't something that's easy to build a Grey Cup team on. If I may, if Manziel stinks it up, well then you've disrespected your current starter, you still don't have a plan or options to get a star QB and you've lost a season. If Manziel does great, then he will be off to the NFL in a heartbeat, there is little question that he will go to the NFL and play second string to make more money if he can produce evidence that if off field issues are resolved and he's still got it. So at best, you'll see two years out of him. You've produced brief success at the cost of sabotaging your development of Masoli and any other prospect for those two years. You also don't have any gauruntees that he will win you a Grey Cup against league stalwarts like Mike Riley, Bo Levi Mitchell, Ricky Ray and various younger QBs who are proving themselves more and more and will likely be retained by their teams. Yes, a large number of players in the CFL want to get back to the NFL, but those that don't are the ones who have been around for 5+ years and have developed roots. Manziel seems unlikely, given how much he fought for an absurd salary.

Third, is you may or may not have overpaid for him. Manziel's contract is somewhere between 150-250 from my understanding, which is low for a starting QB but fairly high for a backup from my understanding. That in turn causes cap issues, which the Cats should be over will shedding the salaries of CJ Gable, Jon Chick and Zach Collaros. However, given the did literally nothing in free agency except sign a kicker, that may not be the case. His initial requests were completely absurd.

Fourth, is has he resolved his off field issues? If he hasn't, you've wasted a lot of time pursuing him as the CFL put strict requirements on him coming up here. Additionally, there is a huge and real possibility that you are inviting locker room poison into the room. Big names slumming in the CFL can cause friction. Look at Duron Carter in Montreal for example. If the staff start giving him preferential treatment (which they may because of his name, it's a sad fact but it has happened many times in the CFL) it can quickly kill your locker room and culture.

Fifth, while it is hard to find that diamond in the rough, the QB position has a glut of talent waiting for any opening. It's not brain surgery, there are 240+ NCAA first division teams and 27 CIS teams with 32 NFL and 9 CFL teams for prospective QBs to make a career. A ratio of 8.5 teams producing talent for every 1 pro franchise. It might be hard to find the right QB, but it's not hard to find a prospective one.
 

Hammer9001

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Apr 1, 2015
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Hamilton
Anyways, I actually hope the Cats produce another losing season this year, if only because it might finally cause a long overdue house cleaning. The fact no one apart from a defensive coordinator was fired for last year's debacle, and that somehow producing one win of substance against Winnipeg, beating the tire fire that is the Als twice, one squeaker of a win against BC and two victories against Ottawa and Toronto which were immediately avenged means Jones is the savior of the team and warranted another completely inactive free agency (apart from signing a kicker) is ridiculous. I'm a firm believer the CFL is a league where you live and die in free agency, because your draft picks seldom stick around.

I think Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg and Saskatchewan have proven as of late that cleaning house can produce benefits in very short order (or in the case of Ottawa, having a new team win the cup in year 3 says you can build a team with new staff, incredibly quick). I truly believe after going 0-8 and trying to hire Art Briles, any other CEO, GM and head coach in this league would have been fired at the end of the season. See Garth Butchko, Joe Mack and Paul LaPolice, as they all got fired for far, far less.
 
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Holden Caulfield

Eternal Skeptic
Feb 15, 2006
22,807
5,400
Winnipeg
Yup. This is nothing more than an attempt at loosening the West Division's stranglehold on the East. Simple economics is that they have extra cash to spend on recruitment and coaching because of all the extra butts in the seats in Edmonton, Sask, Winnipeg, and Calgary.

I can't see how this is going to hold up in the courts though. I thought they were just discussing it, but they announced it officially. The only way sports teams get away with caps and drafts is thanks to a CBA negotiated with the players union. Coaches, gm's, scouts, these guys are not unionized. I feel a legal challenge coming.
 

Newsworthy

Registered User
Jan 28, 2018
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Several reasons not to go with him.

First off, the Tiger-Cats are still reeling from a terrible attempting to sign Art Briles, and then double downing of the attempt. A man embroiled in the sexual assault scandal at Baylor. It was a repulsive signing attempt that was thankfully stopped, although seemingly because the league office was about to step in. So then to not just hire, but go out of your way to seek out a QB with previous drinking and domestic violence issues. The optics don't look good if you are trying to brand yourself as the family friendly entertainment option and use him as the face of your franchise and furthering that controversy.

Second, is the issue of he needs to be good, but not great for the team to benefit in the long term, which isn't something that's easy to build a Grey Cup team on. If I may, if Manziel stinks it up, well then you've disrespected your current starter, you still don't have a plan or options to get a star QB and you've lost a season. If Manziel does great, then he will be off to the NFL in a heartbeat, there is little question that he will go to the NFL and play second string to make more money if he can produce evidence that if off field issues are resolved and he's still got it. So at best, you'll see two years out of him. You've produced brief success at the cost of sabotaging your development of Masoli and any other prospect for those two years. You also don't have any gauruntees that he will win you a Grey Cup against league stalwarts like Mike Riley, Bo Levi Mitchell, Ricky Ray and various younger QBs who are proving themselves more and more and will likely be retained by their teams. Yes, a large number of players in the CFL want to get back to the NFL, but those that don't are the ones who have been around for 5+ years and have developed roots. Manziel seems unlikely, given how much he fought for an absurd salary.

Third, is you may or may not have overpaid for him. Manziel's contract is somewhere between 150-250 from my understanding, which is low for a starting QB but fairly high for a backup from my understanding. That in turn causes cap issues, which the Cats should be over will shedding the salaries of CJ Gable, Jon Chick and Zach Collaros. However, given the did literally nothing in free agency except sign a kicker, that may not be the case. His initial requests were completely absurd.

Fourth, is has he resolved his off field issues? If he hasn't, you've wasted a lot of time pursuing him as the CFL put strict requirements on him coming up here. Additionally, there is a huge and real possibility that you are inviting locker room poison into the room. Big names slumming in the CFL can cause friction. Look at Duron Carter in Montreal for example. If the staff start giving him preferential treatment (which they may because of his name, it's a sad fact but it has happened many times in the CFL) it can quickly kill your locker room and culture.

Fifth, while it is hard to find that diamond in the rough, the QB position has a glut of talent waiting for any opening. It's not brain surgery, there are 240+ NCAA first division teams and 27 CIS teams with 32 NFL and 9 CFL teams for prospective QBs to make a career. A ratio of 8.5 teams producing talent for every 1 pro franchise. It might be hard to find the right QB, but it's not hard to find a prospective one.

Masoli has had his share of off the field problems as well. Was kicked off teams and arrested for drug possession on more than one occassion. That's not what you expect from a QB. Everyone deserves a second chance.

Art Briles makes little sense and is actually kinda upsetting.
I know some teams expressed some interest in Manziel at the NFL level but I wouldn't be surprised if Johnny stayed in the CF L more than two seasons.
His ultimate goal is to return to the league so I see your point fully.
However if he's good then he will get a good paycheck up North.
 

Kyle McMahon

Registered User
May 10, 2006
13,301
4,352
Several reasons not to go with him.

First off, the Tiger-Cats are still reeling from a terrible attempting to sign Art Briles, and then double downing of the attempt. A man embroiled in the sexual assault scandal at Baylor. It was a repulsive signing attempt that was thankfully stopped, although seemingly because the league office was about to step in. So then to not just hire, but go out of your way to seek out a QB with previous drinking and domestic violence issues. The optics don't look good if you are trying to brand yourself as the family friendly entertainment option and use him as the face of your franchise and furthering that controversy.

Second, is the issue of he needs to be good, but not great for the team to benefit in the long term, which isn't something that's easy to build a Grey Cup team on. If I may, if Manziel stinks it up, well then you've disrespected your current starter, you still don't have a plan or options to get a star QB and you've lost a season. If Manziel does great, then he will be off to the NFL in a heartbeat, there is little question that he will go to the NFL and play second string to make more money if he can produce evidence that if off field issues are resolved and he's still got it. So at best, you'll see two years out of him. You've produced brief success at the cost of sabotaging your development of Masoli and any other prospect for those two years. You also don't have any gauruntees that he will win you a Grey Cup against league stalwarts like Mike Riley, Bo Levi Mitchell, Ricky Ray and various younger QBs who are proving themselves more and more and will likely be retained by their teams. Yes, a large number of players in the CFL want to get back to the NFL, but those that don't are the ones who have been around for 5+ years and have developed roots. Manziel seems unlikely, given how much he fought for an absurd salary.

Third, is you may or may not have overpaid for him. Manziel's contract is somewhere between 150-250 from my understanding, which is low for a starting QB but fairly high for a backup from my understanding. That in turn causes cap issues, which the Cats should be over will shedding the salaries of CJ Gable, Jon Chick and Zach Collaros. However, given the did literally nothing in free agency except sign a kicker, that may not be the case. His initial requests were completely absurd.

Fourth, is has he resolved his off field issues? If he hasn't, you've wasted a lot of time pursuing him as the CFL put strict requirements on him coming up here. Additionally, there is a huge and real possibility that you are inviting locker room poison into the room. Big names slumming in the CFL can cause friction. Look at Duron Carter in Montreal for example. If the staff start giving him preferential treatment (which they may because of his name, it's a sad fact but it has happened many times in the CFL) it can quickly kill your locker room and culture.

Fifth, while it is hard to find that diamond in the rough, the QB position has a glut of talent waiting for any opening. It's not brain surgery, there are 240+ NCAA first division teams and 27 CIS teams with 32 NFL and 9 CFL teams for prospective QBs to make a career. A ratio of 8.5 teams producing talent for every 1 pro franchise. It might be hard to find the right QB, but it's not hard to find a prospective one.

One point I'll disagree with is that Manziel doing "too good" and bolting back to the NFL in two years would be a bad thing. Teams will gladly take two years of MOP-level play at QB, even if they lose them right after. A couple seasons of Doug Flutie gives you a better chance at a Grey Cup than 15 seasons of Kevin Glenn. And typically, a CFL QB needs to be playing at close to MOP level to get an NFL shot (Printers, Ray, Dickenson), or if not, still be young and have a rocket launcher for an arm (Burris). Manziel does not have the latter. Admittedly he's a bit of a special case since some idiot like Jerry Jones is probably already praying he does well enough to justify signing, but still.
 

Hammer9001

Registered User
Apr 1, 2015
848
436
Hamilton
One point I'll disagree with is that Manziel doing "too good" and bolting back to the NFL in two years would be a bad thing. Teams will gladly take two years of MOP-level play at QB, even if they lose them right after. A couple seasons of Doug Flutie gives you a better chance at a Grey Cup than 15 seasons of Kevin Glenn. And typically, a CFL QB needs to be playing at close to MOP level to get an NFL shot (Printers, Ray, Dickenson), or if not, still be young and have a rocket launcher for an arm (Burris). Manziel does not have the latter. Admittedly he's a bit of a special case since some idiot like Jerry Jones is probably already praying he does well enough to justify signing, but still.

That's fair, but you can at least agree there are ample reasons to have not gone with him. We won't really be able to tell if it was a bad move until the end of the season at least. I'm just saying if they hadn't signed him or traded his rights away, I could fully see why.
 
Aug 25, 2009
10,563
3,722
éal
I just went back through the archives of the Montréal Alouettes and remember the team actually folded and moved to Baltimore in 1994-1995. That must've been a really weird thing to experience as a CFL fan back then. Any of you old enough to remember that? I'd like to have a quick chat with you about this.
 

Kyle McMahon

Registered User
May 10, 2006
13,301
4,352
I just went back through the archives of the Montréal Alouettes and remember the team actually folded and moved to Baltimore in 1994-1995. That must've been a really weird thing to experience as a CFL fan back then. Any of you old enough to remember that? I'd like to have a quick chat with you about this.

They moved from Baltimore. Montreal's CFL franchise folded in the late 80's. Out of all the American expansion teams from the early 90's, Baltimore was the only success story, appearing in the Grey Cup in 1994, and winning it in 1995. The American experiment ended after 1995 though, and the Stallions moved to Montreal. All the other American franchises simply folded. I'm too young to really remember any more details. I do recall once hearing that Baltimore was actually popular in their market and there was some desire from the local fan base to retain their franchise.

I can't see how this is going to hold up in the courts though. I thought they were just discussing it, but they announced it officially. The only way sports teams get away with caps and drafts is thanks to a CBA negotiated with the players union. Coaches, gm's, scouts, these guys are not unionized. I feel a legal challenge coming.

This is a good point. Hopefully it gets shot down.

That's fair, but you can at least agree there are ample reasons to have not gone with him. We won't really be able to tell if it was a bad move until the end of the season at least. I'm just saying if they hadn't signed him or traded his rights away, I could fully see why.

For sure, I criticized the move myself a couple weeks ago. Mainly because I felt Masoli showed a fair bit of promise last season, but went into camp with the proverbial noose around his neck and June Jones just waiting for a chance to kick the stool and put his boy Johnny under centre.
 

SkalbaniasGhost

Registered User
Jan 11, 2018
52
9
I just went back through the archives of the Montréal Alouettes and remember the team actually folded and moved to Baltimore in 1994-1995. That must've been a really weird thing to experience as a CFL fan back then. Any of you old enough to remember that? I'd like to have a quick chat with you about this.
I lived in D.C in that time period.I saw several games at the old Memorial Stadium including the 94 ESF against the Argos.I found the team to be embraced by the city(more as a Screw You NFL type thing early on- later people started picking up the nuances).
Those were really weird times for The CFL.San Antonio,Sacramento, and Baltimore could have worked if they had been given more time.Really good players including Tracy Ham, Grant Carter, and Mike Pringle.Glad Montreal came back though.Now lets get to Quebec City.
 

SkalbaniasGhost

Registered User
Jan 11, 2018
52
9
CFL talking about capping personnel salaries (GM, coaching, scouting). This is beyond stupid idea to me. A salary cap on players makes sense, but limiting what teams can do off the field is dumb. The only result of this will be teams like Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, Edmonton take home more profit while losing the advantage their finances give them off the field. It's pandering to the weaker teams, and will hurt the CFL overall as less unknown guys who could become stars will be discovered. Not too mention that teams will be forced to keep terrible coaches for cap reasons.
This is all about David Braley.He's looking for a tax help with his CFL hobby.
 
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