CFL: The CFL thread - Part IV

[robertmac43]

So pumped about the Halifax news, Im definitely doing the first Bomber game there.

Is there new news?

 

[cutchemist42]

Is there new news?

Ambrosie is doing a live town hall there Friday, people are speculating there's a reason why based on the rumours that popped up last week,

 

[robertmac43]

Ambrosie is doing a live town hall there Friday, people are speculating there's a reason why based on the rumours that popped up last week,

Oh that is exciting! Would be great for the league to get some east coast representation

 

[Blitzkrug]

I think the potential maritime team is a move where the CFL is going to wonder why the hell they waited so long to make it happen.

That team would essentially have the entire region behind them instantly since there's very little in the way of pro sports out there. Fixes the parity and some scheduling issues too.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Ambrosie is doing a live town hall there Friday, people are speculating there's a reason why based on the rumours that popped up last week,

This will be great news. Hopefully it'll work out. They will really need to get a location where they can draw from the whole maritimes though. Much like how Sask draws from whole province, the maritime team will need fans to travel to games. They've been hinting for quite a while at this.

Still hope that they can get a team in Quebec City soon that would be a fantastic CFL market.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

CFL draft on now. CFL draft is so hard to gauge because of big increase in talent in Canadian football nowadays and NFL interest. Basically the entire top 10 in talent have some amount of NFL interest.

 

[Newsworthy]

CFL draft on now. CFL draft is so hard to gauge because of big increase in talent in Canadian football nowadays and NFL interest. Basically the entire top 10 in talent have some amount of NFL interest.

I don't understand the CFL Draft.
The highest players drafted rarely become the best.

 

[robertmac43]

Needing some CFL discussion in my life, what are people's far too early Grey Cup winning predictions?

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Needing some CFL discussion in my life, what are people's far too early Grey Cup winning predictions?

Darian Durant is loser that is big ugly fat loser. Seriously though, what a spoiled brat to retire without informing the team 5 days before camp. f***er.

If the Bombers stay healthy (ie Nichols mostly, along with Harris and Adams) they have a fair chance of knocking off Calgary in Calgary during the West Final. Esks maybe as well. I don't see BC or Sask challenging that hard. I know BC is "going hard" because of Wally's last year but they bled away all their depth particularly on D. Sask has cocky idiots running their team, and cocky idiots on their team, they'll implode hard.

Out East is a 50-50 chance of Ottawa or Toronto. Hamilton will battle BC and Sask for the 2nd playoff spot in East (I don't think Masoli is the answer). Montreal will be lucky to win 4 games, IMO.

TLR version: It's probably freaking Calgary as a favourite in the Grey Cup again, but they may choke it away again against Toronto or Ottawa. But the CFL will CFL so hey maybe Josh Freeman is the new Doug Flutie and Als win 16 games. Who knows.

 

[Hammer9001]

I don't understand the CFL Draft.
The highest players drafted rarely become the best.

The reason is three fold.

The first is the NFL. Most of the top picks in the CFL draft try their luck down in the US. So by the time they come back up to Canada it's either been forgotten they were once a top pick, the team who picked them has lost the rights or the player stays down there, makes good money and if they leave often opts to call it a career. It's also a matter that the cream of the crop that could make an immediate impact is always gobbled up by the NFL. I'll touch on that in my third point, but basically if a player is good enough to stay in the NFL, CFL teams will typically not touch him till late in the draft because his return is a gamble and not a gamble that's worth getting somehow else to help with the ratio.

The second is position. Traditionally most top picks in the CFL draft are linemen. This means most people don't consider linemen when they think best players. It's not a glorious position. In fact, there are literally no recordable statistics for Offensive linemen. If he's doing a good job, you notice the QB making passes. If he's not, the QB gets sacked and he sucks. Defensive linemen have it a bit better, as they can get sacks and tackles, but usually linebackers get the lion's share there. Lineman are also where most teams deal with the Import Ratio, because they tend to be the only position where a player can be effective right out of college. This is because raw genetic and athletic ability is generally more prized at the position then skill, which is easier to coach up on the line given time, as opposed to other spots. It is also a matter that there is a glut of the glory positions (Receiver, DB, RB, QB) that are produced by the NCAA. It's simple math, 129 NCAA teams to 32 NFL franchises. It's also a matter that Lineman is the meat grinder position. Apart from RBs, Linemen generally have the shortest careers in Football because of how much a pounding they take, so they are in much higher demand. They just don't get the same level of glory that other spots do.

The third is coaching time. A very telling statistic in the CFL is that most players drafted are not with the team they were drafted by in 3 years. Some 80% of players move onto other teams (NFL or to another CFL team via trade or free agency). This is because most CIS players (apart from some linemen and rare exceptions) aren't ready out the gate for the professional game. They haven't matured enough psychically or have had to deal with the much faster professional game.

In my honest opinion, the CFL is a league where you live and die in free agency. If you can't sign proven Canadians or superstars, you aren't going to win and the draft is more of a dice roll for an already picked over group of players. It's the polar opposite of hockey where hoarding draft picks like Pittsburgh, leads to success.

 

[Newsworthy]

The reason is three fold.

The first is the NFL. Most of the top picks in the CFL draft try their luck down in the US. So by the time they come back up to Canada it's either been forgotten they were once a top pick, the team who picked them has lost the rights or the player stays down there, makes good money and if they leave often opts to call it a career. It's also a matter that the cream of the crop that could make an immediate impact is always gobbled up by the NFL. I'll touch on that in my third point, but basically if a player is good enough to stay in the NFL, CFL teams will typically not touch him till late in the draft because his return is a gamble and not a gamble that's worth getting somehow else to help with the ratio.

The second is position. Traditionally most top picks in the CFL draft are linemen. This means most people don't consider linemen when they think best players. It's not a glorious position. In fact, there are literally no recordable statistics for Offensive linemen. If he's doing a good job, you notice the QB making passes. If he's not, the QB gets sacked and he sucks. Defensive linemen have it a bit better, as they can get sacks and tackles, but usually linebackers get the lion's share there. Lineman are also where most teams deal with the Import Ratio, because they tend to be the only position where a player can be effective right out of college. This is because raw genetic and athletic ability is generally more prized at the position then skill, which is easier to coach up on the line given time, as opposed to other spots. It is also a matter that there is a glut of the glory positions (Receiver, DB, RB, QB) that are produced by the NCAA. It's simple math, 129 NCAA teams to 32 NFL franchises. It's also a matter that Lineman is the meat grinder position. Apart from RBs, Linemen generally have the shortest careers in Football because of how much a pounding they take, so they are in much higher demand. They just don't get the same level of glory that other spots do.

The third is coaching time. A very telling statistic in the CFL is that most players drafted are not with the team they were drafted by in 3 years. Some 80% of players move onto other teams (NFL or to another CFL team via trade or free agency). This is because most CIS players (apart from some linemen and rare exceptions) aren't ready out the gate for the professional game. They haven't matured enough psychically or have had to deal with the much faster professional game.

In my honest opinion, the CFL is a league where you live and die in free agency. If you can't sign proven Canadians or superstars, you aren't going to win and the draft is more of a dice roll for an already picked over group of players. It's the polar opposite of hockey where hoarding draft picks like Pittsburgh, leads to success.

Makes sense plus I'm sure the best Canadians are trying NCAA football first if given the opportunity.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Makes sense plus I'm sure the best Canadians are trying NCAA football first if given the opportunity.

Yes but the CFL draft does include NCAA players.

In the past there was never any Canadians getting NFL looks. Now there's plenty of them, so it makes the CFL a crapshoot. Do you take the best player but you might never see him because of NFL, or do you take best player you know will play for you. Hard to say.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Needing some CFL discussion in my life, what are people's far too early Grey Cup winning predictions?

Time to start getting excited about the greatest league in the world about to return for another season! We complain about the general incompetence and ridiculousness that the CFL foists upon us every year, but we always come back next summer eager for more. From refs blowing calls, the league changing the rules in the middle of the season, coaches forgetting what the score of the game is (allegedly), import return men conceding singles on the last play of a half...infuriating in the heat of the moment, but come on, this is why we love the CFL! The Grey Cup is back in Edmonton this November, and I'm already hoping like hell for nice weather as I'll be in the stands watching. Fingers crossed that Mike Reilly stays healthy and leads us to a historic Grey Cup victory at Commonwealth.

Ok, here are my far too early evaluations of where everyone stands:

The contenders: I see the regular season in the West Division as a strong four-horse race. Calgary has been hit hard by retirements, and the loss of Roy Finch (arrested in the off-season, now putting his football career "on hold to deal with personal matters) is a big blow. Return guys should theoretically be easy to replace, but Finch was a game-changer at his position. The Stampeders were already a step ahead of everyone else though, so this merely reels them back to the pack.

There is some concern in Eskimos land about guys like Bowman and Willis being cut, but I'd argue they were more big names rather than big contributors at this point. Having CJ Gable to start the season should provide a nice addition in the backfield. At the end of the day, a healthy Mike Reilly playing behind a healthy offensive line makes Edmonton a contender. Give me those two things, and I'm happy to leave the rest to chance.

Year 3 of Chris Jones in Sask. Probably the best eye for defensive talent in the CFL, I expect the Riders to be formidable on that side of the ball. Saskatchewan steadily improved throughout last season, they are now a legitimate contender. The big question mark is at QB though. Can Collaros rebound? I have my doubts. Bridge might be a decent placeholder-type QB, but I don't expect the Riders offense to win them many games. But with that defense, simply not blowing the game with turnovers on offense might be enough to have them contend.

I'm not sure I'll ever be fully sold on Matt Nichols, but results are results. Winnipeg is very solid on the offensive line, and that's a necessity for any team expecting to contend for a championship. The Bombers have what appears to be a soft summer schedule, mostly eastern teams and BC, so I could see a strong start for them.

Wild cards: Toronto is the defending champs afterall, and they're my pick to finish 1st in the East. A second off season of Trestman bringing some stability to the organization should help. I'd expect the Argos that have recruited reasonably well. I doubt they are much better than .500, but you seldom need to be to take 1st in the East.

Ottawa shouldn't have much trouble scoring points as long as Harris can stay healthy. Lack of playmakers on defense would concern me though. We'll see how well the Redblacks recruited this winter. They lost a ton of close games last year and never fully recovered. Maybe they rebound a bit, but I don't see them winning many games outside their division. Like the Argos though, if they can reach 9 or 10 wins, they are contender simply by virtue of divisional imbalance and playoff format.

Pretenders: Hamilton looked great in the second half last year once Massoli was given the reins. But the Johnny 8-ball impending shitshow could throw a real wrench into things. If the Cats could have resisted, I'd honestly have given them as good a chance as anyone to win the East. But now they've invited a media circus, locker room distraction, and almost certainly QB controversy. Manziel will blow up in their face spectacularly in all likelihood.

BC would have a puncher's chance if they played in the East Division, but out West I just don't see them competing. Hervey will turn them around (and it's not like they're terrible or anything), but he'll need another offseason or two to do so.

Montreal. For the sake of the Als and the CFL, I really hope this team is better than expected. But until he proves otherwise, Kavis Reed instills no faith whatsoever that he can run an organization. Mike Sherman and Josh Freeman are huge question marks. I hope we don't have a 3-15 type situation here, it's simply bad for business when one team is a punching bag for the league. This is football though, so anything can happen.

 

[sabremike]

I don't object to bringing in Manziel at all. The guy has real talent but his off field has wrecked him. I think he realizes that this is his career lifeline and I can see him doing very well for us. I hope it works out not just because I'm a Cats fan but because it would be incredibly sad to see a guy waste real talent.

 

[robertmac43]

Manziel will be an interesting experience for sure. If he plays poirly the crowds in Hamilton will let him know, likely in a rather harsh way

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Bombers added Adam Bighill today. Their #1 weakness which was MLB now becomes a huge strength. I am biased as a Bomber fan but I have a hard time seeing how they are not at least the #2 favourites in the CFL going into the season, potentially even the favourites but it's really hard to bet against Calgary at this point. Only real question marks for the BB is if they have a true pass rushing DE (Okpaulaugo, Roh, Jeffcoat gives them lots of options, but none have proven to be superstars) and how the new look DB corps will fare (added big in off-season adding Fenner, Chandler, Clarke from BC to join Randle, Loffler, Alexander, Walker, Leggett along with any rookies that emerge).

The X-Factor could be QB depth for not only the Bombers. Both CGY and WPG lost their backup QB's on the eve of camp (not that either were very good) leaving them both with very inexperienced options behind the starters. Edmonton has Glenn, but whether a worn out Glenn is a better option than a young guy who might be something is hard to say (safer for sure though). Only Sask and Toronto have any depth at the QB position around the league, IMO. Lulay is an option for about 5 passes before he gets hurt, Manziel will not be an option anytime soon, Davis is terrible, and Montreal is a mess from #1 to #3.

If we see a rash of QB injuries like we did a couple of years ago the league could be a bit of a mess that we saw that year (with lots of 14-12 final games).

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I was hoping the circus involving Manziel wouldn't come north. Oh well. Manziel has talent, sure. Pretty much every QB that signs in the CFL has talent. How many guys out of big schools with massive hype do well up north though? Doug Flutie? These guys tend to think they are too good for the league, should be starting right away, see it as a stepping stone back to NFL. It rarely if ever works out. What he is saying right now doesn't matter, these guys understand that's what they need to say right now. It's a different story behind close doors, or if they've been sitting on the sidelines for a few weeks. The guys who end up doing well are almost always guys who put in the time to learn the game, stay humble and work hard. I don't see Manziel doing any of that. I predict this ends badly for Hamilton.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Does Ti-Cats have issues selling tickets? Color me cynical why they signed Manziel. I mean, if he cleaned up his act and is SERIOUS ABOUT CFL this would be a good signing.

 

[Rocko604]

Does Ti-Cats have issues selling tickets? Color me cynical why they signed Manziel. I mean, if he cleaned up his act and is SERIOUS ABOUT CFL this would be a good signing.

No, they've sold very well since being at the Tim Horton's Field. There's no doubt Manziel is skilled, it all comes down to whether or not he's serious about playing in the CFL, like you said. IF he is, he could do well and help Hamilton contend for the East. The game is much more wide open for QBs up here, and as we saw in college, he loved running the ball out of the shotgun.

Training camp starts on Monday, so we'll soon see just how serious he is.

 

[Rocko604]

Darian Durant is loser that is big ugly fat loser. Seriously though, what a spoiled brat to retire without informing the team 5 days before camp. ****er.

Right, because we never see teams release players hours before they're due a roster bonus.

 

[Newsworthy]

I was hoping the circus involving Manziel wouldn't come north. Oh well. Manziel has talent, sure. Pretty much every QB that signs in the CFL has talent. How many guys out of big schools with massive hype do well up north though? Doug Flutie? These guys tend to think they are too good for the league, should be starting right away, see it as a stepping stone back to NFL. It rarely if ever works out. What he is saying right now doesn't matter, these guys understand that's what they need to say right now. It's a different story behind close doors, or if they've been sitting on the sidelines for a few weeks. The guys who end up doing well are almost always guys who put in the time to learn the game, stay humble and work hard. I don't see Manziel doing any of that. I predict this ends badly for Hamilton.

People love to hate Johnny Manziel.
Who knows what's said behind close doors?
Why would anyone care about his ultimate goal of returning to the NFL if he performs well in the CFL? Manziel hasn't hid his agenda from anyone. Most CFL players have NFL aspirations anyway.

What is Hamilton losing by signing Manziel?

He hasn't even played a snap and your already condemning him.

Curtis Martin is a Hall of Famer and he admitted he didn't really love the game of football. I say Johnny will be motivated to do well and be dedicated to understanding the game since this could be his last chance. Sometimes you don't know what you got til its gone.
But to say, "How many guys out of big schools with so much hype do well up North?" Is utterly ridiculous.
Such a straw man argument.
How many players fail in the CFL in general?
How many highly touted Canadian prospects flame out in the league? How many CF L first rd picks make an impact?
How many players regardless of where they are from get cut from a CFL team?
How many major college QBs are gonna play in the CFL when the NFL is drafting and paying them big money in the first place?
I guess the CFL doesn't get its share of busts?
You may not like the guy but he has talent and deserves a chance. You may not love the Johnny M. and Ricky Williams of the world I get it but they deserve a chance.

Id love to see a list of big school players with major hype like Johnny who have tried out for the CFL.
Take into consideration he plays the most important position on the field.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Right, because we never see teams release players hours before they're due a roster bonus.

That was a really long post so I know it's tough but look at where I mention money in that post. Do you see it? Cause I sure don't.

Durant is a shit because he failed to inform the team first (the team would be equally to blame if announced cutting a player to the media before telling the player) and because he waited until the last moment so Bombers had no chance to replace him.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

People love to hate Johnny Manziel.
Who knows what's said behind close doors?
Why would anyone care about his ultimate goal of returning to the NFL if he performs well in the CFL? Manziel hasn't hid his agenda from anyone. Most CFL players have NFL aspirations anyway.

What is Hamilton losing by signing Manziel?

He hasn't even played a snap and your already condemning him.

Curtis Martin is a Hall of Famer and he admitted he didn't really love the game of football. I say Johnny will be motivated to do well and be dedicated to understanding the game since this could be his last chance. Sometimes you don't know what you got til its gone.
But to say, "How many guys out of big schools with so much hype do well up North?" Is utterly ridiculous.
Such a straw man argument.
How many players fail in the CFL in general?
How many highly touted Canadian prospects flame out in the league? How many CF L first rd picks make an impact?
How many players regardless of where they are from get cut from a CFL team?
How many major college QBs are gonna play in the CFL when the NFL is drafting and paying them big money in the first place?
I guess the CFL doesn't get its share of busts?
You may not like the guy but he has talent and deserves a chance. You may not love the Johnny M. and Ricky Williams of the world I get it but they deserve a chance.

Id love to see a list of big school players with major hype like Johnny who have tried out for the CFL.
Take into consideration he plays the most important position on the field.

Condemn him? Really? Read the post. I expressed doubts that a guy like him will put in the work. I never guaranteed things. I have nothing against Manziel, I don't really care one way or the other.

I won't get into the comparison game since I know where that leads, to you trying to hyper analyze every single one saying how they are not exactly the same as Manziel. Whatever.

We'll see but here in the CFL we've seen the story of the hotshot college player/top NFL draft pick coming up here before. Many times. It almost always ends in a mediocre performance and a release. Most think they will dominante and don't put the work in, not understanding that CFL is far above college still and requires work to succeed. Not all, maybe Manziel is odds breaker, but it would require patience on both Manziel's side and Jones' side, I don't see it working.

 

[Rocko604]

That was a really long post so I know it's tough but look at where I mention money in that post. Do you see it? Cause I sure don't.

Durant is a **** because he failed to inform the team first (the team would be equally to blame if announced cutting a player to the media before telling the player) and because he waited until the last moment so Bombers had no chance to replace him.

I know you didn't say anything about money. My point is GMs pull shady shit all the time, like cutting players before a roster bonus. So despite how low of a move it was by Durant, I have no sympathy.

 

[tony d]

No new news about Halifax getting a CFL team? Expansion to an Eastern market would make sense to even up the # of teams in the league.