The case for keeping Mike Green

[Winger98]

Agree. I just thought you were saying he wouldn't get paid if he went the LTIR route.

As far as Jensen/Ouellet, I can see Holland making one of them expendable if he thinks he can fit more than one UFA dman that he would view as an upgrade... And in reality a whole lot of the dmen on the UFA market would be an upgrade over Jensen/Ouellet.

A couple of *affordable* PMDs on short term (1-3 year) deals wouldn't hurt, especially if they won't look out of place in a top 4 role. It's crazy to think that once Green is gone, Daley is the best dman among a group of guys that with a good team would either be spare parts or in the AHL....

I think they'll be expendable in the sense that he'll expose them to waivers next fall, and then try to pack GR.

Yeah, next year's blueline looks rough. It needs help, but I also want to see the possibility of a guy like Hronek or Cholo (or Sulak) start with the club. I expect it to go the route you're outlining, though. We'll sign a UFA or two who won't make a big difference -someone like Daley, it'll push the kids back into the minors/college/juniors because we don't want them riding the bench or anything and we'll wait for injuries to sort it all out.


Ideally, the guys we have signed right now would be better and allow us to leave that spot or two open to push kids into but it is what it is.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Everybody relax. We do have cap space and It's rumoured to be going up 5 million.

The Red Wings plan is to keep the team competitive and rightfully so.


Ericsson Daley

Dk Hronek

Cholo Jensen

This unit would get slaughtered

 

[kliq]

Everybody relax. We do have cap space and It's rumoured to be going up 5 million.

The Red Wings plan is to keep the team competitive and rightfully so.


Ericsson Daley

Dk Hronek

Cholo Jensen

This unit would get slaughtered

I’m pretty sure it’s closer to 7mil.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I’m pretty sure it’s closer to 7mil.

If it goes up that much, Ken Holland is going to have an absolute field day on July 1st...

 

[WingedWheel1987]

If it goes up that much, Ken Holland is going to have an absolute field day on July 1st...

Spending 85 million dollars for a 6-9th overall pick. Yippe!!

 

[Henkka]

If it goes up that much, Ken Holland is going to have an absolute field day on July 1st...

He is gonna sign Thornton, Chara, Green + both Sedins and will trade kids away to make room...

 

[RedWingzz]

"They’ll be seeking the best possible package of picks for Green, maybe a pair of second-rounders, maybe a second and a third. I don't think they can get a first-round pick for him." Ansar Khan, MLive.

That's really disappointing. I hope he's wrong. We need that first. Here I am hoping for a first and a prospect. I guess we should lower our expectations? This seems a bit odd considering we got a 2nd and a 3rd for Smith last year, so surely the return for Green is much higher than this?

 

[RedWingzz]

The only way he doesn't get that paycheck is if he officially retires. If he "LTIRetires", he still gets his full salary. So the "not bothering" part is tied more to risking his body/knee issues with the rigors of another NHL season for a lower salary, or sit at home and collect that same lower salary.

As far as Cholo and Hronek, like any Red Wings young dman you probably have to burn at least two, if not all, of your waiver exempt years in GR before they consider leaving a spot open for you.

With cap and roster space to burn, there's no scenario where Holland doesn't sign a UFA dman this summer.

He probably doesn't get into the Carlson sweepstakes, but without Green, Holland probably kicks the tires on a younger PMD option like De Haan or Moore, before settling on a Daley like deal with someone like Hamhuis or Enstrom. If Kronwall LTIRretires as well, Holland probably doubles down and grabs two UFA dmen... Quincey probably gets a PTO too...

I heard a rumour that Kronwall is allergic to his equipment and that it is giving him a weird skin rash. LTIR he goes!!

 

[RedWingzz]

Realistically i see Larkin getting $6.5 million Mantha $5.5 million AA $2.5 to $3 million Bertuzzi $850,000 and Frk $1.25 million so probably around $17 million to sign our 5 RFA's i would imagine.

I don't see Mantha getting that much yet. In my opinion he will sign a bridge deal, allowing us to still have him as an RFA in 2020-2021. I see Mantha getting a 2 year/ 8 million sort of deal.

Larkin I think he will sign a longterm deal, somewhere in the 6x7 or 6x8 range. AA same as Mantha, he'll sign a 2 year deal, allowing us to habe him as an RFA again. 2 year/ 5.5 sounds about right. Frk 1.25 sounds fine, and Bert will get a bit more than $850,000.

I'll say about 15 mil to sign them all.

 

[Henkka]

On my analysis, Mantha would now get>

3 years, 4.5M, (will end one year before UFA status) and after this, possibly 8 years 7.5 million. From 27 to 34 age.
8 years, 6.0M, from 24 to 31 age.

8 years in his prime (24-31) on the later option would benefit the Red Wings better. We don't need that lower caphit for shorter success window, in the next 3 years, because there is no window. Our next contending window is later than that. Mantha has to be underpaid during that window.

Time to push long-term straight on, before he will start producing like Elite player.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

I don't see any case to keep him. Even if they really want him to stick around you still flip him for a pick and then just try to bring him back July 1st.

 

[njx9]

This seems a bit odd considering we got a 2nd and a 3rd for Smith last year, so surely the return for Green is much higher than this?

Seriously, how the heck is the expected return for Green roughly the same as for Smith?

Or is this just Khan sandbagging, and providing organizational justification when they don't even attempt to trade him out of an abundance of some idiotic notion of 'staying competitive' wherein Holland demonstrates that he doesn't know what the words "staying" and "competitive" actually mean?

 

[ShelbyZ]

Seriously, how the heck is the expected return for Green roughly the same as for Smith?

Or is this just Khan sandbagging, and providing organizational justification when they don't even attempt to trade him out of an abundance of some idiotic notion of 'staying competitive' wherein Holland demonstrates that he doesn't know what the words "staying" and "competitive" actually mean?

Could've just been some horrible scouting from the Rangers. I mean Smith moved the day before the actual deadline, so maybe other teams were kicking the tires offering one 2nd or a couple 3rds when all the sudden Gorton calls offering a 2nd and 3rd and Holland pulled the trigger before they figured out what they would actually get...

There always seems to be that one head scratching overpayment at each deadline. Last years will probably go down as the Burrows trade, closely followed by the Smith trade. Especially after the Rangers buy Smith out in a couple of years.

I also think the draft has something to do with it. Last years draft was supposed to be a snooze fest compared to this one upcoming, so maybe a 2017 1st is equivalent to a 2018 2nd in some GMs eyes.

 

[Henkka]

Could've just been some horrible scouting from the Rangers. I mean Smith moved the day before the actual deadline, so maybe other teams were kicking the tires offering one 2nd or a couple 3rds when all the sudden Gorton calls offering a 2nd and 3rd and Holland pulled the trigger before they figured out what they would actually get...

There always seems to be that one head scratching overpayment at each deadline. Last years will probably go down as the Burrows trade, closely followed by the Smith trade. Especially after the Rangers buy Smith out in a couple of years.

Rangers fans were absolutely hyping after his goal differential at the playoffs. Still, many months after the trade.

I just don't understand the re-signing from the management, if they knew for 100% sure Shattenkirk is joining the team. They would have had Shatty, McDonagh and promising Skjei coming for the skill core. But they went like a total turnaround towards skill, adding also Smith and DeAngelo.

Like a total turnaround from defence to offensive defence. They would have just needed a better balance, not a maniac turnaroud. Like Dan Girardi, skapegoat of all-time, is doing just well at Tampa, when there's a good balance in defence with offensive/defensive skill.

 

[Winger98]

Seriously, how the heck is the expected return for Green roughly the same as for Smith?

Or is this just Khan sandbagging, and providing organizational justification when they don't even attempt to trade him out of an abundance of some idiotic notion of 'staying competitive' wherein Holland demonstrates that he doesn't know what the words "staying" and "competitive" actually mean?

There has to be a market. With Shattenkirk going down it might open things up a bit for us, but a lot of the playoff teams don't look that bad on the blueline. It's rarely a bad thing to add some more punch back there, but it's not a necessity on a lot of those teams right now.

 

[Henkka]

Some of my Capitals friends would be more ready to trade Burakowsky for Green, rather than 1st.

Thoughts?

 

[Henkka]

Last three season points/60

Datsyuk 2.27
Burakowsky 2.24
Mantha 2.21
AA 2.17
Zeta 2.16

Imo, that 22-year old Burakowsky would be nice piece to have. Then we could concentrate with the 1st rounder for a defenceman.

6'3 Burakowsky - 6'1 Larkin - 6'5 Mantha
6'2 Athanasiou - 6'6 Rasmussen - 6'0 Bertuzzi
6'2 Svechnikov

Capitals would like to transfer some value on cheap ELCs (by keeping the own 1st) and sending 3M Burakowsky away. He was #23 overall 1st rounder at 2013 (Mantha) draft.

 

[Winger98]

Probably, because the Caps will probably be picking in the 20s, probably mid-late 20s. I'm not sure why the Caps would rather trade cheap, young, NHL depth like Burakovsky than a late 1st for what will probably be a rental D, though.

 

[Redder Winger]

"They’ll be seeking the best possible package of picks for Green, maybe a pair of second-rounders, maybe a second and a third. I don't think they can get a first-round pick for him." Ansar Khan, MLive.

That's really disappointing. I hope he's wrong. We need that first. Here I am hoping for a first and a prospect. I guess we should lower our expectations? This seems a bit odd considering we got a 2nd and a 3rd for Smith last year, so surely the return for Green is much higher than this?

Certain guys around the league have reputations. Vanek was one. He should have gotten way more than a third, based on his scoring ability.
Green is another.
Both are viewed as outright lazy on the defensive side of things and that hurts their value.

For the Rangers, you can bet Ryan McDonagh had some input in that Smith deal.

By the way, check out that 9-10 Wisconsin defense:
Smith
McDonagh
Gardiner
Schultz

Two others have also played NHL games.

 

[RedWingzz]

Last three season points/60

Datsyuk 2.27
Burakowsky 2.24
Mantha 2.21
AA 2.17
Zeta 2.16

Imo, that 22-year old Burakowsky would be nice piece to have. Then we could concentrate with the 1st rounder for a defenceman.

6'3 Burakowsky - 6'1 Larkin - 6'5 Mantha
6'2 Athanasiou - 6'6 Rasmussen - 6'0 Bertuzzi
6'2 Svechnikov

Capitals would like to transfer some value on cheap ELCs (by keeping the own 1st) and sending 3M Burakowsky away. He was #23 overall 1st rounder at 2013 (Mantha) draft.

I think we can get better value than just Burakovsky. I personally take a 1st over him.

 

[Redder Winger]

I take a first over Burakowsky.
We don't need another winger. We have AA, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Svechnikov, Frk and maybe Rasmussen at 23 and under on the Wing.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I take a first over Burakowsky.
We don't need another winger. We have AA, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Svechnikov, Frk and maybe Rasmussen at 23 and under on the Wing.

Agreed.

Sounds like the Caps (or maybe just their fans) don't want to send out their 1st for a rental two years in a row after they did the same with Shattenkirk. Combine Burakovksy's status as a 22YO once taken in the 1st round with his struggles this year and that's probably why his name is getting tossed around. I've seen Bowey's name thrown out as well.

I wouldn't take Burakovsky straight up for Green, but would consider it as part of a package. Especially if the Caps or any other team interested in Green aren't willing to swap a 2018 or 2019 first for him.

They don't exactly need another winger, but he's at least an asset that can increase in value or be used as a part of package to bring in a player Detroit does need. In a perfect world, adding Burakovksy might convince Holland to move on from Tatar before his NTC kicks in and save $2.3-5.3M over the next three seasons, but we know it's not perfect...