RDS: The All Encompassing Bergevin Thread: "I know where we are going"

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Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
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It's easy really and I already said it a ton of times.

I don't think coaching has that much impact as some of posters around here think.

A bad team will be bad even if you get the best coach out there and a good team will be good even if you have the worst coach.

You can't ruin talent and you can't make gold out of ****.

Lefebvre or whoever... Just draft better players.

Coaching is overrated.

You said the players that failed, failed on their own. And another post you are saying that "our players are progressing". So is their progression Lefebvre's work or not? If coaching is overrated good or bad, well how about you fire this clown as if it makes no difference, it will at least have this appearance that you are actually an organization that knows where they are going and won't accept failure...for a 5th year out of 6.
 
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Belial

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Oct 22, 2014
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But he did get better at faceoff.

And the biggest problem is the evaluation of him coming back from his knee injury.

He is not really fast even when healthy and when he got back he was a slug and that showed and in that stretch I'm with you he was horrible defensively.

I choose to think a knee injury where he came back 2 weeks earlier than the original prognosis could have screwed up the appreciation of his game.

But remember before that injury. He was in the top ten in scoring in the league. He was centering the Habs first line and the Habs were winning a whole lot of games. At that time he played against the best defensive players of the other team and that line was wrecking everything in they're path.

And at that time his offensive output largely overcompensated for his defensive glimpses.

I think the problem is you see him at his worst and i see him at his best and the truth is probably somewhere in between. But still from what I saw from him. The best hockey of his Habs career and the most productive hockey of his career, he played it as a centerman and not a winger. And it is not like goalscoring is not our biggest problem right now.

Even when he was at his best at center his line was a tire fire defensively.

It can be fine during the season but it's going to kill you during the PO.
You're out of your depth and you don't know what you are talking about.

Sure, for that very limited pool of exceptional players like Crosby, Malkin and McDavid ect, it won't make a huge difference, but as a person who is well read in developmental biology and psychology, you're off the mark by a huge margin. Environment is paramount in the psychological development of players, especially under the age of 25 when the brain is not yet fully developped.

You'll say just about anything to disregard criticism towards this awful management.

The coach can maximize what a player can offer he can't create something new!

You said the players that failed, failed on their own. And another post you are saying that "our players are progressing". So is their progression Lefebvre's work or not? If coaching is overrated good or bad, well how about you fire this clown as if it makes no difference, it will at least have this appearance that you are actually an organization that knows where they are going and won't accept failure...for a 5th year out of 6.

I already said it, I don't care about Sly!

Another coach wouldn't make out of McCaron a star.

This is my point of view.
 

HuGo Sham

MR. CLEAN-up ©Runner77
Apr 7, 2010
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another baffling move by bargain bin is the hemsky signing. 'oh it's only a million' lol, as if many of us will ever make a million in a year..but fact captain le chateau thought this guy would either replace radulov or compliment teams offence, speaks to his utter incompetency
 

durojean

Registered User
May 29, 2007
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Even when he was at his best at center his line was a tire fire defensively.

It can be fine during the season but it's going to kill you during the PO.

At his best he was not the greatest defensive player but his offensive output largely compensated for his lapses.

He was still learning the job also. He was 22 years old.

You talked earlier about labels and you a right in that point that the players move on the ice. But the majority of the time the players will be at their core position.

This year, what I see on the ice of Galchenyuk is that his best moments this year came exactly from moments where the players on the ice are rotating and not a their core position. He is better on the ice and his greatest plays this year came from moment where he was covering for the center.

When you play a position, you make maybe 65% of the play in a game from that position. It gives a larger winrate for Galchenyuk to look better. That is exactly what makes the difference in points between him being him at center and him at wing.

I just think that when you put Galchenyuk on the wing while increasing his defensive stats by a little, you also remove him from what made him a 3rd overall draft pick.

The same thing could be argued about Drouin who is faster than Galchenyuk and actually a lot better than him in restricted space. Drouin with too much space can't do his little miracles because he is easier to see coming.

I feel that Galchenyuk stat are like at center are like

O : 91
N : 75
D : 63

An 91 offense is rare amongst NHL players a makes him better than the average.

I feel his stat on the wing a more like

O : 82
N : 71
D : 68

which makes him a better all around player but it also makes him too much like the normal all around player in the league. You lose his greatest asset to gain a minimal gain elsewhere in the game. I also feel that at center he is better in then neutral zone and that is why a removed a little bit of point there.
 

Belial

Registered User
Oct 22, 2014
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Montreal
At his best he was not the greatest defensive player but his offensive output largely compensated for his lapses.

He was still learning the job also. He was 22 years old.

You talked earlier about labels and you a right in that point that the players move on the ice. But the majority of the time the players will be at their core position.

This year, what I see on the ice of Galchenyuk is that his best moments this year came exactly from moments where the players on the ice are rotating and not a their core position. He is better on the ice and his greatest plays this year came from moment where he was covering for the center.

When you play a position, you make maybe 65% of the play in a game from that position. It gives a larger winrate for Galchenyuk to look better. That is exactly what makes the difference in points between him being him at center and him at wing.

I just think that when you put Galchenyuk on the wing while increasing his defensive stats by a little, you also remove him from what made him a 3rd overall draft pick.

The same thing could be argued about Drouin who is faster than Galchenyuk and actually a lot better than him in restricted space. Drouin with too much space can't do his little miracles because he is easier to see coming.

I feel that Galchenyuk stat are like at center are like

O : 91
N : 75
D : 63

An 91 offense is rare amongst NHL players a makes him better than the average.

I feel his stat on the wing a more like

O : 82
N : 71
D : 68

which makes him a better all around player but it also makes him too much like the normal all around player in the league. You lose his greatest asset to gain a minimal gain elsewhere in the game. I also feel that at center he is better in then neutral zone and that is why a removed a little bit of point there.

I don't think his stint at center last year before he got injured is really a good showcase, the team was killing it as a whole.

We can see the same thing this year in Drouin's case, the team is playing bad and he gets blasted.
 

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
28,752
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Dundas
Even when he was at his best at center his line was a tire fire defensively.

It can be fine during the season but it's going to kill you during the PO.


The coach can maximize what a player can offer he can't create something new!



I already said it, I don't care about Sly!

Another coach wouldn't make out of McCaron a star.

This is my point of view.
With that view. Why EVER replace a coach then? lol

Coaches should last 45 years with your logic.

Sly stinks. He is a stupid man. Bad coach. Had no experience when he took the job. Development program is snickered at around the league. His won loss record stinks and his team made one brief play off appearance in 6 years..and lost.

"Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play"
 
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Belial

Registered User
Oct 22, 2014
26,142
14,323
Montreal
With that view. Why EVER replace a coach then? lol

Coaches should last 45 years with your logic.

Sly stinks. He is a stupid man. Bad coach. Had no experience when he took the job. His record stinks and his teams never makes the play offs. Development report card sucks.

"Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play"

Coaches are getting old, the message gets old and you need a new voice even if the message is basically almost the same.

Julien is not reinventing anything...
 

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
28,752
15,806
Dundas
Coaches are getting old, the message gets old and you need a new voice even if the message is basically almost the same.

Julien is not reinventing anything...
Thought we were talking about Sly.........matter of fact why am I even debating with you.

Straight up. Are you Sly? ;)
 
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durojean

Registered User
May 29, 2007
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I don't think his stint at center last year before he got injured is really a good showcase, the team was killing it as a whole.

We can see the same thing this year in Drouin's case, the team is playing bad and he gets blasted.

It is a good point that the team was going well but I could give you my explanation as to why it was going well last year and Galchenyuk was a big part of it.

Things began to go worst after Galchenyuk injury which means that playing with the lines actually influenced the streak of the season.

You have to look at the composition of the team at the beginning of last year or the lines before his injury.

You had

Byron Galchenyuk Radulov
Pacioretty Plekanec Shaw/Gallagher

I maybe wrong on some details but that's the line that I remember being the most productive.

Galchenyuk lines killed it a lot and was like everybody remember one of the best line in the league. Espacially Radu and Chucky

On the second line you had a strong defensive line that the opponent had to take care of because of the Pacioretty factor. At the moment Pacioretty had absymal production but the make up of the team made them better because other team had 2 lines to put in check. So in defensive match up you had the Pacioretty line and in offensive situation you had the Galchenyuk line.

We had one of the best stretch in history that way. Biggest problem was the Pacio production but the team kept finding ways to win most of their match up until ... Galchenyuk / Gallagher and some other players got injured.

Habs kept it together for almost a month after that moment, Pacioretty got out of his funk by playing with Radulov and he liked it very much. I'd say too much for the good of the team.

After a month of OK play, the lost began to fall on the team and nothing could really put them upper. We had a 1 line team that produced ok but it was clearly a weakness during that stretch.

Injured players began to come back but some especially Galchenyuk were really out of shape and had lost a few step. He played some game with the big duo (Pacioretty) but because of the lost step it did not work that well so Therrien put them back with Danault who had some succes with them.

1 thing never happened then... They never splitted Radu and Pacio again in the season while their record winning streak of the beginning of the season was done with those player not playing together. 1 thing that made them succesful at the beginning of the season was the presence of 2 dangerous lines.

The Radu line and the Pacio line.

But still Galchenyuk was really not at his best and it showed so he got demoted until he was move to the wing for 2 games until Therrien lost his job.

There came Julien : Galchenyuk is tried again with Pacio and Radu and it still does not work. So Galchenyuk gets demoted until he is again put on the wing.

So Galchenyuk for a stretch of 60+ games put up a .86 point a game counting the end of the precedent year.

And it took 20 games to make the decision that he should never play center again. Does that make sense to you. You have to take into account that for those games he came back from a knee injury 2 weeks earlier than supposed. I ask you again ? Does that make sense ?

Last year I really felt that they should have split Radu and Pacio at the end of the year.

They could easily have put Galchenyuk and Radulov together and Pacio with Plekanec again. It would have helped Chucky getting his confidence again and it would have been harder to play against the habs.

Pacioretty made it known that he did not want to be split and even made comments that Galchenyuk was the problem. But I felt he thank about himself at that point than about the team.

But still :

60 good games // 20 bad games = never a center again

I really don't like those mathematics
 
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Toene

Y'en aura pas de facile
Nov 17, 2014
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4,842
You guys should just stop arguing with Belial,he'll probably argue that De La Rose is better then Galchenyuk at center next.

You should rename yourself Denial

Spit my water right on my phone holy shit lmao
 
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