Prospect Info: The 2018 Draft Thread

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Zaddy

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Bouchards game will not translate to the NHL very well. watching his highlights, he is not a good skater at all, He has a good wrist shot and a good slap shot, a lot of his up ice rushes are generally quick flips into an open net by getting to the net in time. He will not have this time in the NHL because of his lack of first step and speed. His passes are not all world. I think he will take too long to develop at the NHL level. Boqvist is who the Oilers need to target. you only get so many opportunities to draft a defenseman like him. Speed, quickness, shifty, good shot, good stickwork, high IQ, great passer. This should start and end with Boqvist. There is absolutely no reason to pick anyone else if BQV is available. I don't see a reason to suddenly shift to the hottest player. Boqvist comes as advertised. He is not much further away then Dahlin. Very similar except Dahlin is bigger.

I tend to agree, I think Bouchard is getting a bit overrated and I think like you say his lack of speed and first step is going to be a big issue. The NHL is an incredibly fast league these days and it's especially important for d-men nowadays to be really quick. Bouchard is not that and I don't think the rest of his game makes up for it. I think he's actually one of those guys who is going to need significant time in the minors before taking the step to the NHL and even then I don't think he'll be more than a middle-pairing defenseman.

I'd probably take Hughes over him even though Hughes is a lefty, much smaller and doesn't have a great shot. What Hughes does have though is incredible skill and talent coupled with fantastic skating in every way possible. I think I'd rather take my chances with him and his skillset. I also think it's pretty telling that the HockeyProspect guys (who are generally very good at OHL scouting) have Bouchard only at #15 and have had him very low all year (think they had him outside the 1st round the first couple of months of the season).

The problem for me would be choosing between Bouchard and Dobson (if Boqvist and Hughes are both gone). I've only seen Dobson at the Hlinka (where he played a mostly defensive role, but excelled at it) and highlights, so he's pretty tough to judge for me but really, his highlights aren't that impressive and I feel like a big part of why he's producing well is because he's playing in the Q. What is his offensive upside really like? Really tough to say. I could see him being more of a JayBo type at the NHL level. Good player but not a game-breaker in any way. But I do think he has a higher ceiling than Bouchard, but probably less likely to reach it.

Lets say we draft at #7 and this is how the draft goes down:

1. Dahlin
2. Svechnikov
3. Zadina
4. Tkachuk
5. Boqvist
6. Hughes

Who do you take? Bouchard? Dobson? Smith? Wahlstrom? Or even someone like Wilde or Kotkaniemi? That's a really tough one for me. Honestly I'd probably lean more towards Smith or Wahlstrom than Bouchard or Dobson. I think Smith could be a top-pairing defenseman. He's just so smooth and smart and a terrific skater. I can't see him not being a successful NHLer with that skillset. And Wahlstrom is a goalscorer with great hands, skill and skating. Don't think you can go wrong with either one of those. Ultimately I'd probably go with Smith. D-men > wingers, and it doesn't hurt that he's an Alberta boy and a teammate of Yamamoto. Oilers scouts should've seen plenty of him.
 
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Aerrol

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If Hughes/Smith and Bouchard/Dobson are (very) roughly similar, who do you pick between them?

I'm no expert but I have Smith ahead of Hughes because of his shot.

Bouchard/Dobson is tough because Dobson could become a Pietrangelo but Bouchard's offensive skills are what we need.

I come to the same conclusions except I don't see any competition between Bouchard and Dobson. Bouchard wins all day every day for me, lol. Way better shot, much better passer, similar skater, big dude. What does Dobson even have over him?
 

McFlash97

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So what makes Bouchard a bad skater? Is it something technical? If not then why could he not improve with added strength? Drai was a poor skater when we drafted him. His issue wasn’t technical and a summer of squatting every other day helped his speed.

Are you judging his speed at the OHL level? How can you judge his speed on highlights or even without tools to measure how fast he is?

And even if you say he’s slow, why can’t he he be successful like other dmen are? Ekblad, Weber, Boychuk, Erik Johnson, and even Parayko who aren’t the most fleet of foot.

He's defensive game is nowhere near the guys mentioned. It would take him a decade to get to that level. Even if he does , guy like Boychuck, Weber, Johnson, Parayko are nowhere near as effective in todays game as they would be if the league didnt move towards speed and quickness. Parayko might be an exception because of his sheer size and long strides. I just don't see him being as effective as Boqvist, or even a Dobson. There is nothing in his game that really stands out. The league is quickly shifting and the Oilers need speed and passing from the backend. Boqvist or Dobson should be the targets.
 

Aerrol

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He's defensive game is nowhere near the guys mentioned. It would take him a decade to get to that level. Even if he does , guy like Boychuck, Weber, Johnson, Parayko are nowhere near as effective in todays game as they would be if the league didnt move towards speed and quickness. Parayko might be an exception because of his sheer size and long strides. I just don't see him being as effective as Boqvist, or even a Dobson. There is nothing in his game that really stands out. The league is quickly shifting and the Oilers need speed and passing from the backend. Boqvist or Dobson should be the targets.

???? There's nothing in his game that stands out, but you like Dobson more? Bouchard's a way better passer, shooter, and has better hands than Dobson. I'd say there's nothing in Dobson's game that stands out...

And @Zaddy, I'd take Bouchard for sure at that spot, even if I share your concerns about skating. I think his puck skills are more than enough for him to succeed at the NHL level. His ability to find really, really tight lanes for passing and shooting will serve him very well once the time and space disappears. Can't say the same necessarily for Smith's big one timer. Wahlstrom is a nice choice too but I'd much rather we finally pick a top dmen.
 
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McFlash97

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???? There's nothing in his game that stands out, but you like Dobson more? Bouchard's a way better passer, shooter, and has better hands than Dobson. I'd say there's nothing in Dobson's game that stands out...

And @Zaddy
Dobson and skate. He is big and can skate and is shifty for a big guy. Bouchard just looks meh. Mind you this is just eye tests watching online videos. Bouchards skating just seems so mechanically off, he would have a tough time adjusting. Players will be blowing by him his first few years. Unfortunately the Oiler's can ill afford to have anyone with a lack of footspeed on the backend. Doesn't matter if they rack up 100 points in the minors. Speed and finesse is our single biggest need from the backend. Bouchard covers neither.
 

rambo97

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Hey Zaddy and McFlash97 how many #1 dmen in the NHL are under 6’?

Both the guys you like are under 6’. Not saying I wouldn’t draft them but just pointing it out.

And Zaddy Brock Otten knows the OHL...go look at his past history. He’s been so bang on it’s not even funny. He loves Bouchard....
 

Aerrol

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Dobson and skate. He is big and can skate and is shifty for a big guy. Bouchard just looks meh. Mind you this is just eye tests watching online videos. Bouchards skating just seems so mechanically off, he would have a tough time adjusting. Players will be blowing by him his first few years. Unfortunately the Oiler's can ill afford to have anyone with a lack of footspeed on the backend. Doesn't matter if they rack up 100 points in the minors. Speed and finesse is our single biggest need from the backend. Bouchard covers neither.

Bear's skating is currently worse than Bouchard's, and he already has been making a positive impact on our dismal blueline. Our greatest need isn't speed and finesse on the backend, it's the ability to keep the puck in at the blue line, make a goddamn stretch pass, and get the puck on net from the blue line. All things I question Dobson can do consistently at the NHL level, but am fairly confident Bouchard will be able to do easily. His skating is a concern, and I appreciate it pushing Hughes higher up even, but I think Bouchard's skating challenges are being overstated here. He's a decent skater, not a terrible one.
 

McFlash97

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We keep making the same mistakes over and over again as an organization. Boqvist to me is a sure thing. Instant reward. Quickness right off the bat to keep up at the NHL level. He may take time to reach his ceiling but he wont be a liability while he gets there. This is the concern with Bouchard.
 
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Zaddy

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Hey Zaddy and McFlash97 how many #1 dmen in the NHL are under 6’?

Both the guys you like are under 6’. Not saying I wouldn’t draft them but just pointing it out.

And Zaddy Brock Otten knows the OHL...go look at his past history. He’s been so bang on it’s not even funny. He loves Bouchard....

I think there's a few right around 6'0. Keep in mind a lot of NHL measurements are inflated. I don't think there's any way in hell that Duncan Keith is 6'1. I think he's 5'11 at best. Subban is 6'0, Erik Karlsson is barely 6'0, Kris Letang is 6'0, Nick Leddy (if he counts) is 6'0. Size isn't the be-all-end-all anymore. Obviously if you're 5'9 it's gonna hurt you but if you're around 5'11 I don't really see a big issue. You don't need to play physical to be effective as a defenseman today, and you can also pair smaller guys with bigger guys. Like, we could play Smith or Hughes with Larsson and Boqvist with Nurse. It's not really an issue. And anyway, just because you're 6'2 or bigger like Dobson and Bouchard doesn't mean they have a better chance of being a #1D. Talent > size everyday. If you're talented (and hard-working) enough, you'll find a way to be successful no matter your limitations.
 
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bobbythebrain

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We keep making the same mistakes over and over again as an organization. Boqvist to me is a sure thing. Instant reward. Quickness right off the bat to keep up at the NHL level. He may take time to reach his ceiling but he wont be a liability while he gets there. This is the concern with Bouchard.

I have no idea what you are seeing.

Bouchard is good at both ends right now. Plays 27min a night. What stands out is his exceptional slap shot, and even more, the way he uses it. Head up the whole time and the moment it is released he is adjusting his skating position

You don't have to be the fastest guy if you have good hockey IQ, which he does
 

Aerrol

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We keep making the same mistakes over and over again as an organization. Boqvist to me is a sure thing. Instant reward. Quickness right off the bat to keep up at the NHL level. He may take time to reach his ceiling but he wont be a liability while he gets there. This is the concern with Bouchard.

I'm not sure how many people are advocating we take Bouchard over Boqvist. Most seem to be saying he should be our pick if Boqvist is off the board, which I agree with. Boqvist is IMO obviously the pick we want if Dahlin is gone.
 

CycloneSweep

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Bouchards game will not translate to the NHL very well. watching his highlights, he is not a good skater at all, He has a good wrist shot and a good slap shot, a lot of his up ice rushes are generally quick flips into an open net by getting to the net in time. He will not have this time in the NHL because of his lack of first step and speed. His passes are not all world. I think he will take too long to develop at the NHL level. Boqvist is who the Oilers need to target. you only get so many opportunities to draft a defenseman like him. Speed, quickness, shifty, good shot, good stickwork, high IQ, great passer. This should start and end with Boqvist. There is absolutely no reason to pick anyone else if BQV is available. I don't see a reason to suddenly shift to the hottest player. Boqvist comes as advertised. He is not much further away then Dahlin. Very similar except Dahlin is bigger.
There is a very low chance we are in position to draft Boqvist
 
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rambo97

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“Talent > size everyday. If you're talented (and hard-working) enough, you'll find a way to be successful no matter your limitations.” - Zaddy

Bouchard has crazy amount of talent. He is the best dmen in this draft for getting shots through and on net. A skill that is very rare. His offensive IQ is off the charts good. His shot, passing and vision are elite.

You don’t have to believe me. Go read what the scouts have to say about him. I posted tweets earlier about him. Here are more comments on bouchard:

“He’s got a big-time shot and as his junior career has progressed, he has learned to use it more. Great poise with the puck and he may be the best passer in the entire draft class.” - Ryan Kennedy

“I can't get over how he is able to get so many shots through screens and on goal. Just improving each and every time I see him. Another well coached student of Dale Hunter - and it shows!” - Tony Ambrogio

“Bouchard just continues to plug along as one of the OHL’s top defencemen and one of the best blue liners in this draft. Bouchard is an incredibly smart passer who has an incredible knack to get pucks through a crowd and into the back of the net. His stock has been shooting up due to the consistency at which he is producing and carrying a London Knights team that sold off their top players at the deadline.” - Dylan Galloway

"The offensive production is no joke. His vision is off the charts good. His ability to find that seam and anticipate movement and holes from the point is elite. I think about a play I saw him make recently as a perfect example. On the powerplay, with about three sticks in the slot, he put a bullet pass on the stick of a teammate, cross ice, near the crease, who was circling around the net. The precision and timing that required was astounding. I do have some questions about his ability to defend and win battles consistently in the corners. But I have zero questions about his hockey sense." - Brock Otten

“The numbers are pretty stunning, even as a late birth date where you expect him to be a step ahead. Offensively, I think he's special. In talking with some scouts very recently, there is some moderate concern about his D-zone play. Still, the distribution skills, his shot, his vision, they're all high end.” - Anonymous
 

BarDownBobo

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Aerrol

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http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/noah-dobson-vs-evan-bouchard.2440609/

For what it's worth here's a Dobson vs Bouchard thread from a few weeks ago. It's a close call but the edge went to Dobson.

Thanks for this. Always like to see more detailed discussion of prospect strengths and weaknesses.

I will look at more Dobson tape but I doubt my mind will change. I just don't see the rawness some people describe. In fact, I see the opposite - he seems much more polished than the other top Dmen in this draft to my eye, so I question how much he'll grow. It's quite possible I'm wrong of course but I'm willing to bet that Bouchard ends up a better player than Dobson. He almost certainly will be better offensively.
 
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Burnt Biscuits

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We keep making the same mistakes over and over again as an organization. Boqvist to me is a sure thing. Instant reward. Quickness right off the bat to keep up at the NHL level. He may take time to reach his ceiling but he wont be a liability while he gets there. This is the concern with Bouchard.
Not sure how true this is, but I really like what I've seen out of Boqvist, seems to have a real knack for getting the puck on net, even when it doesn't look like he has a good lane to shoot he just gets a sneaky wrister through on net. Most people key in on whomever has the hardest shot being the best PP d-man, but just being able to consistently get that puck past the first defender on the PP and on net, is so important, a sneaky wrister that finds its way through a maze of bodies is every bit as dangerous as an unscreened 102 MPH cannon.
 

CycloneSweep

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McFlash97

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There is a very low chance we are in position to draft Boqvist
If Boqvist is off the table when we step up then yes Bouchard becomes the prized commodity.

Remember this is Chiarelli were dealing with here. He could very well end up drafting some 6'7 dman from the 3rd round in the top 5.
 

CycloneSweep

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If Boqvist is off the table when we step up then yes Bouchard becomes the prized commodity.
Yep. That's why there is so little Boqvist talk. There is no way we draft 4th overall and I think he goes there pretty much guaranteed. We have a chance of 1-3 but in reality closer to 7-9
 
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